Huge disparity between lower levels and the high level

[MaIkavian]

Huge disparity between lower levels and the high level

Greetings!

I am on my second playthrough and i am noticing huge disparities between lower levels and the higher levels. I suppose they weren't noticeable when i first started the game, as i didn't know what to expect, but now it is really obvious.

First the weapons. There are no decent weapons till level 7. Instead i am running around with level 1 viper swords. I am playing on death march difficulty, meaning even those rabid dogs take three or four hits to kill. Wheres wolfs provide me with the biggest challenge (believe it or not) because they attack in packs and take four or five hits to kill, wargs up to ten or so. They also posses remarkable ability to doge and attack at the same time.

Killing humans on the other hand is simply boring i am sorry to say (at this stage of the game), as their levels range from seven to ten and they also attack in packs, and killing a single human takes a long time.

So the first good weapon set is griffin swords set, equipable at level 7, but the diagram for one of the swords is guarded by a level 14 wyveren. Rather troll move by CDPR but the monster is killable if you fight it in the area where you found the diagram. Area is quite small and the wyveren has a tendency to stuck, which can be exploited. Be prepared for a long fight though, not just with the monster but with the camera angles as well.

All that said, on higher levels (20+), game becomes extremely easy. I am constantly bombarded with new relic swords which i don't need at all and i end up simply selling them, and few enemies provide any challenge.

I guess the tl;dr version would be that the game deprives you from any decent loot at low levels, thus creating a false sense of difficulty, and prevents me from exploring, while on the other hand, loot on higher levels is abundant making the game easy and with little challenge.

Don't get me wrong though. I enjoy the game very very much and is probably one of the best games i ever played in the genre. Just this "issue" is extremely annoying to me.

 

[denjan]

other hand is simply boring i am sorry to say (at this stage of the game), as their levels range from seven to ten and they also attack in packs, and killing a single human takes a long time.

Generally the difficulty curve in the game is quite bad, the beginning of the game is the hardest, and throughout the game you learn enemy combat moves etc and you start to get much better gear where you can start to one shot wolfs.

And yeah, I found killing the wolfs very difficult until you get better gear and outlevel them.

 

[jj284b]

and not just that, i think it would be better if craftsmen level actually determined the level of weapon he makes. Player would then be rewarded by completing those quests that give him access to master armorers even more, as they would be able to craft master items for him of much higher quality.. But right now, it doesnt matter if your craftsman is master or amateur, if he passes the requirement, he will manufacture the item of fixed level quality...


one thing that helps with wolves is specialized weapon - wiper steel sword is great, if you improve it with +5% poison rune... that way you will have much greater chance to poison them which will deal additional damage to them.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I think the game is pretty easy no matter what level you are. Once you've properly understood and mastered the combat system you don't need that good weapons or armors anyway. At least if you don't fight against enemies several levels above your own which is hard on every level...

 

[jj284b]

I think the game is pretty easy no matter what level you are. Once you've properly understood and mastered the combat system you don't need that good weapons or armors anyway. At least if you don't fight against enemies several levels above your own which is hard on every level...

not entirely true, there are occasions when you end up surrounded by some monsters (drowners) and you wont stand a chance even if you are really good at dodging, as their attack jump is a bit longer than your dodge jump, so if they hit you, they will keep hitting you unless you roll... (just realized i didnt read your last sentence, which is crucial - if you are really good, you can overcome 5-6 level difference relatively easily, but not if difference is much bigger - in my current play, i managed to kill some rouge Nilfgarians slavers who were around level 14-16, while i was still level 5 or 6 relatively easy, especially thanks to Viper steel sword and poison effect that worked on them no matter what..)

 

[Scholdarr.452]

not entirely true, there are occasions when you end up surrounded by some monsters (drowners) and you wont stand a chance even if you are really good at dodging, as their attack jump is a bit longer than your dodge jump, so if they hit you, they will keep hitting you unless you roll... (just realized i didnt read your last sentence, which is crucial - if you are really good, you can overcome 5-6 level difference relatively easily, but not if difference is much bigger)

You're sure you mean dodge and not roll? Dodging is faster than the attacks of the drowners. You don't have to roll.

And of course you should always try to avoid being surrounded by groups. It's part of the combat system and appropriate strategies to avoid that and trying to hit enemies alone before the group gets to you.

The only real threat on lower levels are groups of wolves imo. But then again they don't do much damage and with a bit of good rollling action they aren't a big deal neither.

 

[Smurfin]

Good point, I enjoyed the combat a lot more when still at low level, every fight felt rewarding by the thrill in it, even when they dropped nothing. The enemies posed little to no threat anymore at higher level and becoming quite easy.

Combat is the real gameplay in a game, it has to be entertaining and challenging but not frustrating or too easy. I hope they come up with something to balance this issue in later patch as soon as possible so for us who want to replay the game will experience something new.

 

[Liquidacid]

I've found the combat and game mechanics in general pretty basic and underwhelming if mostly just adequate. Once you've figured them out it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to walk through the game with little difficulty no matter the settings. They give you some neat tools like bombs that stop enemies from using magic or monsters from transforming, A metric shit-ton of potions that have varying effects but none of them are ever really all that needed when you can just dodge, fast attack and/or Axii to easily beat almost every enemy. The way the gear/skills/mutegen system is designed makes it really really easily exploitable to make your toon OP even on the hardest difficulty. I'd have to go out of my way to not have my toon become an epic bad-ass.

Thankfully for me I'm here for the story (which was masterfully done IMO) and not really for innovative or challenging gameplay

 

[MaIkavian]

Combat itself is not issue for me. In fact, i find it very intuitive and enjoyable. It's just that lack of early weapons that effectively prevents me from exploring, that i don't like.

Regarding the wolves and the poison damage, poison damage is to low to be effective (i think it is 15 per tick in my case) at least on death mach (march?) difficulty. I am not saying wolves are OP or something like that, just very challenging at that stage of the game.

And as for drowners, yeah they can be a pain in the ass (also nekkers) when they attack you at once. Single drowner is no problem, although they do hit hard.

 

[jj284b]

You're sure you mean dodge and not roll? Dodging is faster than the attacks of the drowners. You don't have to roll.

And of course you should always try to avoid being surrounded by groups. It's part of the combat system and appropriate strategies to avoid that and trying to hit enemies alone before the group gets to you.

The only real threat on lower levels are groups of wolves imo. But then again they don't do much damage and with a bit of good rollling action they aren't a big deal neither.

im pretty sure it was during dodging. if you do it when they hit you, and you dodge backwards, they will jump-hit you over and over until you are dead. sidestep dodge works fine though.

---------- Updated at 05:02 PM ----------

You're sure you mean dodge and not roll? Dodging is faster than the attacks of the drowners. You don't have to roll.

And of course you should always try to avoid being surrounded by groups. It's part of the combat system and appropriate strategies to avoid that and trying to hit enemies alone before the group gets to you.

The only real threat on lower levels are groups of wolves imo. But then again they don't do much damage and with a bit of good rollling action they aren't a big deal neither.

im pretty sure it was during dodging. if you do it when they hit you, and you dodge backwards, they will jump-hit you over and over until you are dead. sidestep dodge works fine though.

 

[ScoiataelWarrior]

I noticed this too. The game felt a lot more difficult at the start. I went down to Story and the Sword even then it was pretty difficult in the boss fights. Then as I got to higher levels I bumped up the difficulty and by the end of the game it was almost trivially easy at Death March.

 

[reavertm]

There are several ways to do progression in games:
- easy at the beginning, hardest at the end
The most popular progression (most FPS and all startegy games)
- sort of constant difficulty
Found in games like Oblivion - achieved with autolevelled monsters in open world. In Oblivion you had to grind through autolevelled bandits or some minor enemies even late at game it was just tiring (and if you did not level-up in efficient way, you were actually loosing it over time).
- hard at the beginning but easier with time
Gothic series, Witcher 3, a bit of Witcher 1 and 2, the rest of Elder Scrolls. This is imho the best progression for RPG games as it makes you feel it was worth to invest in development of skills of player character. Just to make it not too easy, there should be just occasional 'bosses' to make you work hard for it.
So, I don't mind Witcher 3 being easier over time at all. It's actually good because I can focus more on the story over than on trying to grind-through random drowners. If I want a challenge, I can always pick the fight with +10lvl monster somewhere (which I do occasionally).

 

[numibago]

I guess the tl;dr version would be that the game deprives you from any decent loot at low levels,

Not entirely true. If we're talking about good steel swords then yes, i can relate to that, but there's tons of low lvl relic silver swords if you explore thoroughly and if you do the lowest lvl contracts.

Spoiler

There's a relic silver sword inside that elven ruin you explore with Keira Metz during the main quest, which will be lvl 5 or 6 depending on what lvl you are when doing it. Only need to kill a lvl 6 foglet to get it. Once you get outside and see a boat, get inside it and travel to the little island right in front of it, you'll get a treasure hunt quest and another relic silver sword from it which is lvl 4 if i remember correctly. You'll need to deal with a big pack of drowners though.

 

[ScoiataelWarrior]

There are several ways to do progression in games:
- easy at the beginning, hardest at the end
The most popular progression (most FPS and all startegy games)
- sort of constant difficulty
Found in games like Oblivion - achieved with autolevelled monsters in open world. In Oblivion you had to grind through autolevelled bandits or some minor enemies even late at game it was just tiring (and if you did not level-up in efficient way, you were actually loosing it over time).
- hard at the beginning but easier with time
Gothic series, Witcher 3, a bit of Witcher 1 and 2, the rest of Elder Scrolls. This is imho the best progression for RPG games as it makes you feel it was worth to invest in development of skills of player character. Just to make it not too easy, there should be just occasional 'bosses' to make you work hard for it.
So, I don't mind Witcher 3 being easier over time at all. It's actually good because I can focus more on the story over than on trying to grind-through random drowners. If I want a challenge, I can always pick the fight with +10lvl monster somewhere (which I do occasionally).

Having it harder at the beginning is fine but in Witcher 3 it's unbalanced. It's an issue of loot mainly. When you're in the early levels(not the very lowest but still really low), you rarely find good loot and you are stuck with gear several levels lower than you at times. Late game you run into really OP god swords the whole time so barely anything's a challenge.

Usually in games that are harder at the beginning and easier at the end, it's because most of the enemies are many levels above you but you gradually get to their level and then surpass it. In the Witcher 3 most of the enemies you'll see will be around your level all the way through the game but it's the loot that makes the end far easier. The start of the game is too hard on death march(not much of a problem since you can lower difficulty) and the end is too easy on death march(a pretty big problem since that's the highest difficulty).

 

[MaIkavian]

Not entirely true. If we're talking about good steel swords then yes, i can relate to that, but there's tons of low lvl relic silver swords if you explore thoroughly and if you do the lowest lvl contracts.

Spoiler

There's a relic silver sword inside that elven ruin you explore with Keira Metz during the main quest, which will be lvl 5 or 6 depending on what lvl you are when doing it. Only need to kill a lvl 6 foglet to get it. Once you get outside and see a boat, get inside it and travel to the little island right in front of it, you'll get a treasure hunt quest and another relic silver sword from it which is lvl 4 if i remember correctly. You'll need to deal with a big pack of drowners though.

Spoiler

Yeah i got that sword. It is called Maugrim and it was level 3. There is also a treasure hunt quest which gives you another relic silver sword Deithwen, it was also level 3. Both had 1 damage higher then the viper silver sword.

Seems like they scale after the 1.05 patch. I was level 6 when i got those.

 

[numibago]

Spoiler

Yeah i got that sword. It is called Maugrim and it was level 3. There is also a treasure hunt quest which gives you another relic silver sword Deithwen, it was also level 3. Both had 1 damage higher then the viper silver sword.

Seems like they scale after the 1.05 patch. I was level 6 when i got those.

Ah, i see. That is annoying. I'm guessing you're playing on the pc. I'm on the ps4 and since 1.03 i think, items started scaling better. I'm not saying you're wrong though, low lvl gear is not easy to come by. Some of the Velen treasure hunts and guarded treasures have monsters too high in lvl compared to you and at times it feels like it punishes you for exploring early on. Even some things like monster nests can be too hard due to the packs of high lvl monsters that surround it and keep spawning... That's why enemies scaling with your lvl would make more sense imo, but that's a different topic.

 

[Solid_Altair]

The only real threat on lower levels are groups of wolves imo. But then again they don't do much damage and with a bit of good rollling action they aren't a big deal neither.

I learned the hard way, with Ciri, that parrying patiently against wolf packs does wonders. Until that point I didn't know we could parry our back. lol

So, I usually parry and strafe until I'm not badly surrounded, then a leap away and do some in and out action to avoid being surrounded again. And if I am, back to "parry spam". I ended up liking this style. It adds to the niche of parries... so it's good.
________

I think groups of Wraiths are more dangerous on lower levels. When die against drowners and such I alway feel like I did something silly. Against the wraiths I don't feel so silly. It's more like succumbing to a big challenge. Gotta love those stun locks when they gang up on ya with the "telespin" attacs.

 

[onionshavelayers]

I am annoyed by the implementation difficulty in this game. Basically, higher leveled opponents have huge armor and do excessive amounts of damage compared to their lower leveled versions.

First of all, it kills immersion when Geralt (as a witcher and master swordsman) has to hack and slash and slowly chip away at a human opponent's health doing 3 or 4 damage with each hit just because the enemy is 10 levels higher than him. So why are witchers so feared then? Just hire a level 36 Guard from Novigrad and you'll defeat the Wild hunt and the White Frost with one light attack!

Secondly it punishes skilled players. If I'm level 1 and come across a level 10 bandit, I should win the fight if my dodging reaction time is perfect, if my ripostes are well timed, if cheap hacking and slashing doesn't work on the bandit, etc. But in this game, if I really want to defeat that level 10 bandit, all I need is a sword that won't break before I deplete the bandit's health, and A LOT OF PATIENCE!

 

[Smurfin]

But in this game, if I really want to defeat that level 10 bandit, all I need is a sword that won't break before I deplete the bandit's health, and A LOT OF PATIENCE!

You can't break a sword in TW3, even if the indicator appears showing red and the durability of said sword is 0, it's still usable but the damage is reduced.

So why are witchers so feared then? Just hire a level 36 Guard from Novigrad and you'll defeat the Wild hunt and the White Frost with one light attack!

That's part of the gameplay that cannot be mixed with the lore/game restrictions. Like unguarded loots inside houses, why Geralt steals from those peasants, he's a witcher not a thief, or why Geralt has tons of money, arent' witchers supposed to be poor therefore always ask for fees for their services. We need to draw a line here and there for that kind of things. This game is that immersive and make us complain to a lot of things that break it LOL. Me included. ;D

 

[Solid_Altair]

The stealing part could have been addressed. I think Skyrim did it to some degree. I guess they just ran out of resources that will be necessary to make civilians rat you out to guards. And the looting, even when you don't steal in front of people, is still excessive.