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I like both games and have more than 2000h in Fallout (200 in Cyberpunk). Both have the potential to play many hours because of exploring, but there are very different games because of replayability and mod options (not a Cyberpunk fault).

I think Cyberpunk have much better story than Fallout 4 (Bethesda don't make good stories usually), both similar in visual storytelling (shards/notes, environment). Better roleplaying F4 even having a premade character, but easier to make more decisions.
 
difference is you can continue playing after finding your child. In what way is Fallout 4 a better game than CP2077? I've been writing these things out countless times here and it's gotten really old at this While "saddly" with Cyberpunk 2077 the extrinsic motivation pushed by the game actually works.

Very much so. The main story is just a small, small part of the game. Also I never really liked any of the 3 endings to the main story.

I much rather preferred to adventure on my own and explore. Becoming a raider boss was my absolute favorite, unfortunately it was not written as a possible ending to the main story but rather separate.
 
I really love Fallout 4, it will stay one of y favorite game. I Spended hundreds of hours on it and I continue to play it regularly.
But when i first play CP (just the example of "Piramyd Song"), god damn it's a another level. I never felt that in Fallout 4 :(

Edit: What may be missing in Fallout 4, this is the Obsidian's Touch :)
 
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I guess that's correct if your idea of open world RPG is to roam the wilderness and collect trash so you could build shantytowns. As far as writing is concerned, Bethesda is decades behind Cyberpunk.
Story, writing in Skyrim, Fallout 4 are kind of a joke.
Even Enderal(standalone mod) fetches far better in this aspect.
While story, writing, characters are better in Cyberpunk 2077 the open world elements and the other stuff are a joke or mediocre.

After playing games like Last of Us, Life is Strange, The Wolf Among Us, Soma, The Witcher 3 Expansions, Half life 2, Uncharted 2, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice i for example not impressed with cyberpunk 2077 story.
 
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For me, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

Both are open-world games, yes, but that's it. Fallout 4's focus (as in nearly every other open-word game by Bethesda) is on exploration and sense of adventure. Bethesda always give you these big landmasses full of secrets and places for the player to discover. The whole premise of Bethesda's open-worlds is an invitation to go off your path and be curious. That's why the main quest is always one of the least fleshed out aspects in Bethesda's games: because that's not the point. The point is to have an excuse to roam the world and do whatever you like (expecially in the Elder Scrolls series, but it's not too different in modern Fallout main entries - FO3 and 4).

CDPR's games, on the other hand, are STORY-DRIVEN RPGS. The focus is always on the writing and the characters. The world is just the stage in which the story is taking place. Yes, you can still explore, but you're never going to find the amount of hidden things and randomization found in Bethesda's works, simply because they represent different subgenres with different aims.

IMO, both CDPR and Bethesda excel at their own game. No one should really expect the same kind of experience by playing CP77 or FO4, but both experiences can be deeply rewarding, if you approach them with the right mindset and try to appreciate their complementary strong points.
 
Both are bad in my opinion. But Fallout 4 open-world has actually an utility because the game is focused on exploration, where Cyberpunk ? It's just for doing fetch quest.. Please can we return back to maybe some Witcher 1 smaller hubs. This game that even CDPR fail to recognize nowadays has still in my opinion the best narrative structure for any game to date, was cool to have every side-quest reliate to the main quest somehow and actually have choice that not only have consequences in the present, but also with delay in different chapter.
 
I think people are rushing this game way to much. So many people are arguing things that I have had to scratch my head at. I have gone through a few of the stories almost to the end for the biochip, but don't accept help and move on to the next one. Each story seems to be intertwined with each other and appears to have changed the outcome of things depending what I chose during another story. I'm doing all side quests which have opened main story quests as well, my choices do have consequences. What i say or do also changes the story. if I piss Johnny off or another character I may miss out on a whole bunch of quests they might have offered. I haven't found a story that I want to stick with 100% yet. I'm too busy avoiding lesbian romances just trying to be friends with these ladies which has also changed the story. Also, reading messages/emails and shards has also given me more options when i'm doing stories... I dunno, I am taking my time. I'm just confused on how gear works but that's whatever.
 
Interesting take.
I have also played much FO4 and even made a PS compatible mod so armors are more varied and usefull. I also approach FO4 with a free roaming mindset and do not care for the main story much. Which makes FO4 work quite well.
Funny thing to me. At first glance, if I do more or less the same, namely complete various assaults and roam night city or the badlands as I encounter them, while trying to disregard the minimap... I experience little difference between both games. Maybe its just me intrinsicly glossing over the minor differences such as looting, discovering, scrapping, equipment maintenance, approach to combat and so on. But for me the vrafting of a new armor set with some perks in FO is not much different than chosing a lovely outfit for V and craft or upgrade my go-to weapons.
Also with respect to discovery CP77 still has much to offer in its concrete nooks and crainies.

So... The funny part for me becomes: I can play CP like FO to a reasonable extent, but the same does not apply in reverse.
 
Well, the only way to play Fallout 4 is in Survival-mode. It makes for an interesting play-through. To compare Fallout 4 (with over 6K hours play-time) with CP2077 (with 800 hours play-time) is unfair. They might both be open-world games, but they have a very different focus. For me it seems Bethesda uses the environment to tell the story, while CP2077 has a better story-telling (specially romancing Judy) in many parts (some exceptions exist; River's story is not as fully-fleshed out as the other companions).

Edit. Bethesda managed to make power-armor work.
 
Fallout 4 has to be one of the dullest games I've played. Not bad but just... so just boring. And repetitive. Like Cyberpunk has some fairly repetitive missions and side content but wew nothing to the level of Fallout 4. After playing through the game once I have no desire to play Fallout 4 again. Why waste time when there's New Vegas and F3? Cyberpunk also doesn't have the greatest base for multiple playthroughs but it at least has a strong enough story and supporting characters to make it enjoyable.
 
I am going to sound like a Bethesda fan boy and I was for a decade. Theses days I have been extremely mad and disappointed, but I will not go into that now. What I wanted to do was offer one possible explanation for why Oblivion and Fallout4 and Skyrim get away with the bugs and still have block buster games that are still played to this day almost 10 to 20 years latter.

We like to point to modding and I agree that is a near majority of the reason. But there is also a FLAVOR that Bethesda games have that other games do not.

Because there is an ingredient that Bethesda has that almost no other company has to work with.

Bethesda was able to pay and get access to the source of the game engine they use over a decade ago. They can then make changes to how the engine works, gain access to the low-level guts of the rendering pipeline, add support for some obscure platform not currently supported by the engine.

They were able to to pay a one-time fee and get open-ended access to the source, free to do whatever they want with it. They can grow it into a new engine over time and use it on multiple games without needing to offer more money or ask for permission.

No other game engine that I know of (even the newest ones) are designed to handle thousands of individual objects x y z data and and their state information in every cell of the game. Even if you set off dozens of bombs and throw around all the objects in dozens of cells, the game tracks ALL this data (and can record it to your save file ). And it stores all information for the 7 GAME days for outdoors, and 20 GAME days for Cleared indoor areas to reset.

Players expect that if they slay the Undeadking, loot his tomb, and pose the king’s twice-dead body with his face pressed against the seat of his throne, they should be able to come back days later and find the tomb exactly as they left it. If they toss 500 cheese wheels on the ground in the town of Whiterun, then those cheese wheels better still be there the next time they visit.

The game needs to be able to handle large-scale AI behaviors that have agents roaming all over the world and going through a daily routine, even when their part of the world isn’t loaded.

I made a Skyrim test mod once to tell me in REAL time what the actions and "thoughts" were of my companion while she was out of my cell and away in other cells. I was astonished, utterly dumbfounded to see the reports of her blocking, striking, shifting around the target in combat and searching for more targets and then move on walking and passing thru doors in real time to the destination I sent her ALL IN UNLOADED CELLS! o_O

EDIT: Technically they were not unloaded cells, they were loaded in a different way around the player. They are out of the players game play, not being rendered and such, but in the games processing still.


And then YES the game needs to be very open to modding so that end users can make sweeping changes to the gameplay, art, sounds, music, animations, and interface, using self-contained package files. These aren’t impossible-to-solve problems, but they do run against how a lot of modern game engines are designed. All that STUFF you can pick up also gives modders what almost feels like an infinite amount to work with. I made a mod once for skyrim where you could pick up items and THROW them at opponents as an attack! The code to damage victims when the item hit them at a velocity was already inherently built into the items as part of their physics. Bethesda just never thought to implement throwing things as attacks themselves...

No other company has been able to make a game that feels just like Fallout4 or Oblivion (without using Bethesda's tweaked Engine). If some other company could Bethesda would be in BIG trouble!


Every single item (other than the rugs and hanging candles) in this Skyrim room can be interacted with in some way ( all books can be grabbed off the shelves, walked over to the chair sit down, read the book then throw it on the floor, bed can be sleep in, cabinet drawers can pull out and hold stuff, goblets can be picked up and taken, plant in the pot can be picked, weapons can be taken off the wall, even some of the candles can be moved!):

1618515660955.png


And that is true for almost EVERY room in skyrim. That provides an unbelievable amount of immersion and FLAVOR! The opportunities for environmental story telling are almost limitless. And NPC can come in the room and move things to other rooms, use the items or even grab a weapon OFF THE WALL and use it impromptu (with out the DEV planning for that to happen) if you attack them. This all enhances the way the games feels.


You can only interact with ONE item in this God of War room:

1618516791929.png





Care to guess how many items you can pick up or even interact with in this typical Cyberpunk room?:

1618517868276.png




THAT SAID, Cyberpunk has a je ne sais quoi that only a few other games have. Once (if) CDPR starts putting out REAL official moding tools the game will make up for it in world wide crowd sourcing content and become legendary. Mod makers may even find ways to add more interaction to the rooms.
 
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Yes, they make a good open world but nothing in them feels substantive. Oh, look, you can fish! ...Well, that was fun for two minutes. Let's go talk to the NPCs! Oh, they're all incredibly non-reactive and one dimensional. If an open world just to goof around and RP in is what you enjoy then fair enough, but when comparing story and character Fallout 4 is...well, irredeemably bad in comparison. Even modded to the nines I couldn't get invested in the plot. Skyrim's plot can be saved by mods (interesting NPCS!) but they're basically essential if you care about doing the story. Cyberpunk has a much stronger base game than anything Bethesda has put out since morrowind and there's still DLCs to come.
 
Yes, they make a good open world but nothing in them feels substantive.

Well, nothing really feels substantive in CP2077, either.

Oh, look, you can fish! ...Well, that was fun for two minutes.

Now, this is somewhere that you and I definitely agree.

I haven't seen it much here, yet, but on the Steam forums, one of the biggest complaints is that Night City seems "lifeless".
It honestly took me a long time to figure out what they were trying to say, what they meant by that, cuz it seemed to me that the city was teeming with life. Sure, the NPCs were shallow-as-heck, but if one were to just stand in the middle of, say, Kabuki and look around, it's like being in a much more colorful Seattle.

But it seems what they mean is that there isn't enough to do, no casino games to play, no meal-eating animations at vendors, etc.

Now, me... I'm with you. Playing GTA, I mucked about in a casino for two seconds and then went back to shooting hookers and cops. I had money already. What's the point? I really don't get why people need these minigames so very much when they're just set-dressing.

Let's go talk to the NPCs! Oh, they're all incredibly non-reactive and one dimensional.

I can't name a single open-world RPG with NPCs who aren't incredibly shallow, even the named characters with full dialogue-trees.

Personally, I'm glad total strangers don't just start telling you their life stories after you waddle past 'em; it's so weird to have some rando on the streets of a city just say, with zero introduction or preamble, that their grandmother is sick. Sure, in a game we know that this means there is a quest to find whatever magic berries will cure granny, but in real life it would just be weird.

But in Night City, nobody says, "I used to be a netrunner like you, then I took a quickhack to the temporal lobe." It just doesn't happen.
And I actually really, really prefer it that way, one of the things CDPR totally got right was leaving out that immersion-breaking trope so common to, say, Bethesda.

If an open world just to goof around and RP in is what you enjoy then fair enough, but when comparing story and character Fallout 4 is...well, irredeemably bad in comparison.

I don't know about "bad".

The dialogue isn't as well-written or well-acted in F4 as it is in CP2077, I'll certainly agree with that. But "bad"...?

Plus, Fallout 4's plot branches in some pretty wild ways; that you ultimately have to choose an allegiance, thus changing the entire endgame is itself, alone, one way in which F4 is superior. I'm left wondering how things are different if I don't join the Brotherhood of Steel, if I side with the Institute instead.

But CP2077 doesn't leave me wondering anything similar.
Sure, you have choices in some individual situations, but they all lead to the same end, ultimately.

Even modded to the nines I couldn't get invested in the plot.

For a lot of us, that's the appeal, actually.

I've got 171 hours in Skyrim, if Steam is any indication. And I've basically not followed the plot even a tiny bit; I just really like exploring the world.
For Fallout 4, I've got 409 hours (cuz sci-fi beats fantasy in any contest), and I never did finish the game (though I followed the plot far, far more than in Skyrim, cuz I did find it interesting, far more than Skyrim)...I just loved wandering the wastes and seeing what I could find, what I might come across that was interesting or hidden.

But even then, many of those sorts of games will let you solves quests in any order, let you choose sides, let you build fortifications (which is actually why I never finished Fallout 4; they started telling me to build all of these forts on the map in order for them to all make one coordinated attack or something, and I just got super bored; it sounded less like play and more like work) and there is so much freedom to make the adventure your own.

But with CP2077, you can't even give V a bleeping, censored haircut, much less customize an apartment.
And the plot doesn't allow for choosing sides in a conflict, not in any kind of big way, like if Maelstrom and the Moxes are fighting over something, you don't get to support one over the other and have that affect the future plot.

As wonderful as the dialogue and acting may be in CP2077, the story really is basically on rails, and not much can fix that short of a tear-down and redesign.
 

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And yet, their games are still more fun to play.

Cuz they're not still in "Early Access" form like CP2077 is.
Well, for you maybe. :shrug:
If you discount Morrowind, I already have more hours in CP2077 than all of Bethesda's games combined.
Even if I'd decide to ignore drivel that is the story to their games, clunky combat is another aspect that is very difficult for me to get past.
 
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