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I like both games and have more than 2000h in Fallout (200 in Cyberpunk). Both have the potential to play many hours because of exploring, but there are very different games because of replayability and mod options (not a Cyberpunk fault).

I think Cyberpunk have much better story than Fallout 4 (Bethesda don't make good stories usually), both similar in visual storytelling (shards/notes, environment). Better roleplaying F4 even having a premade character, but easier to make more decisions.
Geez, I thought I was hardcore FO4 at 1000+ hours. Now I don't feel so guilty spending so much time building up my settlement empire. Guess I better go back to FO4 and finish it up after I am through with Cyberpunk 2077 (which may take a while; I really like this game).
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it's so weird to have some rando on the streets of a city just say, with zero introduction or preamble, that their grandmother is sick. Sure, in a game we know that this means there is a quest to find whatever magic berries will cure granny, but in real life it would just be weird.
In Oakland, it happens to me at least once a week. However, the quest is always to extract money out of my pocket.
 
From a personal perspective, it's modding that mainly saves these games. So far I have (approx) 11,500 hrs in Skyrim, 3,200 hrs in F4 and 320 hrs in CP77. And most of those hours are mucking around with mods, both making them and using them. It's a hobby.

That said, I'm a 'roleplayer' by default, not a 'gameplayer'. So, it's the player character and their story that primarily motivates me. Not the game world itself. And as much as I consider CDPR to be in many ways far superior to Bethesda in their character writing, it's the base story of CP77 that fails for me.

If you are going to build a huge open world environment to explore, the very last thing you want to do is to put pressure on the player by imposing a death sentence on their character, especially early on in the story. It not only tends to take away the enthusiasm to explore, but any reason for your character to even do so, from a realism standpoint.

Go for a drive about and explorer? Do a few side gigs? Engage in a romance? Sorry, but I'm too busy trying to save my life. I haven't got time for any of that. Now...who do I need to see next? The clock is ticking...

Yeah, that's a roleplay thing, not a gameplay thing, so don't get them confused. But the end result, for me, was that I got the game on launch day and had finished it about ten days later. Since then (using the point of no return save) I've just dipped back in now and then and fooled around with mods. I have no incentive to replay the main story at all. To achieve what exactly..? End up in the same state I am now? There's no point. My character is screwed no matter what I do.

And that's the telling point, for me. Fallout 4 may be weaker in terms of characters, general storytelling and writing. But it is eminently more replayable, because it doesn't doom your character without reprieve You're free to carry on at the end and do what you like.

I doubt that anyone here would have found that an ending that clearly saved their V and allowed you to continue (not roll back) with the game and with your exploration of the city would have been a fundamentally worse experience that what we got.

It's a shame. It started so well, with Jackie and the jobs you were tasked with. I had a lot of enthusiasm for the game and where it was going. The possibilities seemed endless. Then it ripped the rug out from under my feet, killed Jackie, and left me with an annoying tw*t in my character's head and a Damocles sword hanging over her, which completely knocked the wind of out of my sails.

But hey, you now have the rest of the city to explore!

Me: Er, yeah. Great... I'll skip though. I've got to save V first. Tick tock, and all that.

And that, for me, is why F4 (or TW3 for that matter) will always be better as a game. It's eminently replayable and enjoyable.

CP77's story is just frickin' miserable. Which is not why I buy entertainment. I'm not expecting rainbows and bunnies. Just a satisfying end to the main story. Which, quite frankly, is what most people would prefer, given the choice.

Except, it seems, certain story writers these days....

So, yeah. F4 wins this one for me, and I never thought I'd hear myself say that. :p
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Since my last post was not as constructive with it's criticism as I would like, here's an quick alternative storyline:

During their first few jobs, V and Jackie are clued in on a potential corpo war. Again, Militech and Arasaka are the players. However, with investigation, word on the street is that someone else has a vested interest in this occurring and is pulling some major strings to make it happen. Who is it, and why? Nobody knows. But it's bad biz for not only the city but all the mercs who work there.

V and Jackie investigate further, having to make alliances and take on jobs to gain factions trust, and it takes them to the furthest reaches of the city and the Net to find out what's going on and who's behind it.

Things heat up towards the end, with battles on the streets between Militech and Arasaka troops, buildings on fire and the gangs taking advantage of the unrest to expand their territories.

In the end though V and Jackie find out who's responsible, stop the 'war' and are rewarded by Militech and Arasaka with cash, prestige, beautiful penthouse apartments and lucrative contracts.

I could roll with that. :p

The point being is that, although V is important to the story as the player's interface with the world and how you interact with it and the choices you make, the story as a whole is focused on the bigger picture, the city. Which, to my mind, is where it should have been directed overall. You should be creating a solid game universe, in which your character can roleplay without any immediate pressure on them. Not railroading them down a single track highway where the city is just so much blurred scenery because the focus is primarily internal.

But, hey. Not everyone would agree.

I'll shut up now...
 
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Fallout 4 ridden with bugs, some of them game breaking, comes out and people cheer. saing stuff like "god bless Todd Howard"

(I enjoyed F4 - I have 1157 hours in it)

Cyberpunk2077 comes out ridden with bugs, internet explodes with outrage.

(I enjoyed CP77 - I have 418 hours and counting)

Games do put each other in to perspective, same with people. Worshipping one developer studio or even worse one developer is as toxic and irrational as hating them.

I think that post at the start should sit somewhere on fallout/bethesda forums. It's like entering a restaurant just to tell everyone how this restaurant made you appreciate the restaurant across the street.

Would you honestly do that IRL?
 
I certainly wouldn't bless Todd. There was Fallout 76...

It's probably an expectations thing though, more than anything else. People kind of expect Bethesda to screw up. After TW3 and all the good will gained, very few expected CDPR to do so that much.
 
This is Bethesda's tour de force in Fallout 4. The story is so "interesting" that during most of the game you totally forget that your wife / husband was being killed in front of your eyes and that your son was kidnapped by strangers (and that you have to find him as fast as you can).

And for replayability, one word : "mods". Because in my opinion, without mods, once the map has been explored, once there is a crater instead of the CIT, there is really not much to do (apart from the infinite quests that are also interesting than the void).
 
Its interesting to see, how Fallout ended up being loved as a game for free roaming... when the original Fallout had (if I recall correctly) not 1 but 3 time limits hard coded (1 for main quest, another for an event,third to limit free roaming in-engine), Fallout 2 still had 1 time limit for free roaming.
 
This is Bethesda's tour de force in Fallout 4. The story is so "interesting" that during most of the game you totally forget that your wife / husband was being killed in front of your eyes and that your son was kidnapped by strangers (and that you have to find him as fast as you can).

And for replayability, one word : "mods". Because in my opinion, without mods, once the map has been explored, once there is a crater instead of the CIT, there is really not much to do (apart from the infinite quests that are also interesting than the void).

There is settlement building!!

And yes, Fallout 4 is a good free roam game, for me. Even without mods. But it's much better with mods. Bethesda has some good points in visual storytelling, but their narrative is not their best point, at all. And I really like the F4 narrative -until the end-.
 
There is settlement building!!

And yes, Fallout 4 is a good free roam game, for me. Even without mods. But it's much better with mods. Bethesda has some good points in visual storytelling, but their narrative is not their best point, at all. And I really like the F4 narrative -until the end-.
Indeed, but before launching my assault on the institute (for example), I have already increased all the camps quite a bit, I have a special base for all the "special" NPCs and a base just for me with a mass of turrets, defenses and chests to be quiet (usually at the Drive In, a big open area). And finished all the quests available (except endless quests obviously. I stop them when they send me at a location where I already went).
So nothing really interesting remaining after the end, for me at least (without mods). Not even try to get a better legendary weapon, because I have no longer quests to play with...

And I don't said "story" is bad, I also quite enjoy it ;)
But it's the way it's ""presented". You wife/husband is dead in front of you... (it must be "hard" to live). But no, you wake up, you take the ring, you say a "word" and you walk away like if nothing happened... (Oh... a Cryolator ! I want it... I will become for it, not for my wife/husband who can stay forever in the Vault, no problem)
It's not really "emotional" at all (for me at least).

(In short, there no possible comparison between these two games, there are too different and very good in their way).
 
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Indeed, but before launching my assault on the institute (for example), I have already increased all the camps quite a bit, I have a special base for all the "special" NPCs and a base just for me with a mass of turrets, defenses and chests to be quiet (usually at the Drive In, a big open area). And finished all the quests available (except endless quests obviously. I stop them when they send me at a location where I already went).
So nothing really interesting remaining after the end, for me at least (without mods). Not even try to get a better legendary weapon, because I have no longer quests to play with...

And I don't said "story" is bad, I also quite enjoy it ;)
But it's the way it's ""presented". You wife/husband is dead in front of you... (it must be "hard" to live). But no, you wake up, you take the ring, you say a "word" and you walk away like if nothing happened... (Oh... a Cryolator ! I want it... I will become for it, not for my wife/husband who can stay forever in the Vault, no problem)
It's not really "emotional" at all (for me at least).

(In short, there no possible comparison between these two games, there are too different and very good in their way).
Fallout 4 story has a good starting point, a great intriguing potential with the institute infiltrating Commonwealth and you searching for the lost child... but it ends up being a very mediocre excuse for a tale, filled with fetch quests and obvious outcomes (the only significant plot twist being about your child). It is, sadly, a lost potential. What Bethesda is also quite weak at, is emotional level of their stories and quests - maybe it's mostly because of poor animations, their old engine that can't handle well crafted story scenes, but probably not only that. They don't seem to have very good writers. The dialogues (although voice acting is sometimes nice) are usually forgettable, story pacing has problems in all of their Elder Scrolls and Fallout games.
In all supposedly emotional moments in Fallout 4 story the game failed spectacularly, to me at least. I couldn't make myself feel for the characters because of how it was handled.

Although I know that many people ended up liking the settlement building system in the game, I think that it was kind of a mistake to put it in a game with a story that actually didn't have anything to do with it. The settlements thing feels to me as the major factor pulling the player away from the main plot. If they focused on more longer branching quests, connected here and there with the main story, the game would play quite differently. Better, from my point of view.

Both Skyrim and Fallout 4 are great for free roaming, as it was already said. "Go out there, have some adventures, do whatever you want. And yeah... there's some story as well, if you care to check" - that kind of thing.
In storytelling they can't compete with REDs.

With that said though, since I do like some aspects of Fallout 4, I'm still waiting for some talented total conversion mod team to use the game's assets and create a compelling story in this postapocalyptic world, something like Enderal that we have for Skyrim.
 
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I usually pretend Concord doesn't exist and avoid it like radiation. Poor Preston is shooting at raiders on a balcony. I usually take the raiders out when I visit my favorite base. Preston doesn't say a thing cause I snipe the raiders too far away for Preston to see me. The red rocket place you find dog meat is my favorite base. You already have all the workbenches to build weapons and armor and even a cool electric door. I wish the mole rat entrance connected to the base for basement storage but I got plenty room for storage tho. I build a fort there in every single playthrough at red rocket. Four... Five story forts with tons of empty rooms cause I never got around to decorating half of them.

No fort is a fort without as many turrets as humanly possible.

I've had raiders attack my base and never step foot on my property. Partially cause I usually have a wall around my place and only one door to get in which is heavily protected.

Raiders are attacking my fort? I know. I hear turrets going off, and a rocket launcher turret or two. Theres two shotgun turrets inside the base near the door, but I never hear them go off. Strange... it's like the raiders don't even make it through the front door.

Fixing turrets can be a pain but easily done and the costs for repair are pretty reasonable.

Despite avoiding the minute men like a fat man, when i do their missions, i don't mind... i enjoy their quests kinda. Every base i defend has tons of turrets so defences is relatively easy. Like anybody here, I might be doing something and don't wanna stop to head to a settlement attacked by super mutants. I got seven turrets at the settlement and they still need my help smh.

My least favorite Preston missions is when your sent to a settlement, and the settlement leader tells you to create a new settlement! Great! More fuel for Preston!

I also wanna say I love robots. I have a colossal war machine decked out in big spiky armor. Lots of storage. Lots of hp and lots of damage. Sadly I don't use my robot as much as I'd like. I usually go for a humans cause dialogue or occasionally I'll take dog meat for sentimental reasons.
 
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Bethesda games have always been at their best when they gave you complete freedom with your character. Its one of the points that makes TES games so very popular and an excellent base for mods, especially quest mods. We've already spoken about this, but in Skyrim(and previous titles) all that you know about your character is that you crossed the border and that you are dragonborn. NNo voiced protagonist, no urgent quest to fullfill. You are basicly free to go and stand where you please and be a knight, archer, mage, thief or whatever your heart desires.

In Fo4 you are Nate or Nora, you are married, a soldier or a lawyer and you have a son. The protagonist is voiced and the dialogue takes agency from the player. There is no freedom in being able to roleplay your character. You enter dialogue and there are always four options, four vague descriptions of what your character can say. You pick one and basicly dont know whats going to be said. Very few people liked that. And from personal experience, it really is annnoying at times and I'm glad they stepped away from it when they brought NPCs into Fo76. Seems they have learned.
The side effect is that its very hard to make good questmods from Fo4 because you'd have to find the original VA's or someone who sounds similar enough that people wont notice(good luck with that). Some quest autrhors have tried without voice, but it is weird when your character suddenly doesnt talk anymore. The result is that there are very few Fo4 questmods and there never will be any that come anywhere close to a Falskaar or Skyblivion Bruma. Or nothing like FNVs Bounties or Frontier mods.

I dont expect any large mods to ever appear for Cyberpunk 2077 for the same reason and thats unfortunate. Because eventhough I really enjoy CP2077 I dont think I'll ever get past two thousand hours as I did in Fo4.

Also, Preston and the Settlement attacks get turned off immediatly(with a mod). I avoid fast travel and nothing is more annoying than losing all precious resources in a large settlement because 5 raiders with a tire iron and two pipe pistols somehow managed to defeat 50 turrets and 30 settlers with combat armour and gatling lasers. Really wish they didnt put that kind of random nonsense in their games or just limit is to a specific difficulty for those who like that randomness.

I always find the institute and then leave things the way they are because I dont like large radioactive craters in the middle of the region I'm trying to rebuild. That coexistence seems to be the best for everyone honestly.
 
The side effect is that its very hard to make good questmods from Fo4 because you'd have to find the original VA's or someone who sounds similar enough that people wont notice(good luck with that). Some quest autrhors have tried without voice, but it is weird when your character suddenly doesnt talk anymore. The result is that there are very few Fo4 questmods and there never will be any that come anywhere close to a Falskaar or Skyblivion Bruma. Or nothing like FNVs Bounties or Frontier mods.
There are a few interesting, player voiced, ones around. I'd give Project Valkyrie/Outcasts and Remnants, Xander's Aid and Fourville a go if you get time. The first two together allow you to complete the main quest without killing off any faction, which is good.
 
I disagree with the roleplay options in Fallout 4, even it's true it's a predefined character. Roleplay is powerful when you have imagination.

Totally agree.

As an example, rather than just me saying so, in my version of the Fallout universe (encompassing F3, FNV and F4) the following occurs:

James and Catherine have twin daughters, Cate and Jennifer. After James leaves Vault 101, both leave to search for him. Cate heads north, following leads about an Institute, given that he talked about it in the past. Jen stays and searches the DC area.

After James' death and the events of Broken Steel, Cate settles near Boston and meets a guy named Alex and they get married to in 2278, subsequently having a baby called Shaun. Jen heads west and arrives in the Mojave area in 2280, and finds work as a package courier.

Homesick, Jen returns east in 2284 and gets back around 2287, around the time that Cate and Alex's son goes missing.

Cue F4, with mods to support character changes and Alex and Jen as potential followers.

There's quite a bit of RP'ing here, obviously, to ignore certain dialogue. But I can still make it work.
 
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