I didn't like Jackie Welles [Spoilers]

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What corpo V needed was a powerful corpo ally.. not Jackie. made no sense to go to Jackie with that problem.

the solution was obvious -- even today, a good corpo needs to know where power lies and align appropriately and quickly. I would've reported straight to the office of the guy I was told to kill, and made it clear I was working for him now..

that's corpo 101.. rookie stuff. yet V had at least 1 person under her, so, should've known the basics already.
 
What corpo V needed was a powerful corpo ally.. not Jackie. made no sense to go to Jackie with that problem.

the solution was obvious -- even today, a good corpo needs to know where power lies and align appropriately and quickly. I would've reported straight to the office of the guy I was told to kill, and made it clear I was working for him now..

that's corpo 101.. rookie stuff. yet V had at least 1 person under her, so, should've known the basics already.

he needed an expert merc who wasn't directly attached to a corporation, and through convo you realize Jackie has done expert merc work before with V.

V failed their mission, if they succeeded it would have been a non issue. There is no guarantee V would be better off going to Abernathy. Abernathy has no reason to trust V or give V any benefit even if they believe them. As your boss said, its already known your his right hand, no one would believe you were uninvolved. They already have loyalists, why bring V in, when they could cut out his whole faction.
 
Abernathy has no reason to trust V or give V any benefit even if they believe them. As your boss said, its already known your his right hand, no one would believe you were uninvolved. They already have loyalists, why bring V in, when they could cut out his whole faction.

loyalty means nothing in corpo world today, not sure why it would in 2077. but being able to read the writing on the wall is everything.. and ofc he would believe it -- he clearly already knew about it. no reason V had to get caught up in the churn if he/she has skills that are valuable
 
To be honest I also was quite surprised that so many people disliked Jackie besides myself.
That is why {I said I know I know shoot me now}...!

But after seeing several posts, it was quite easy to see we were disliking him for the same reasons, loud, obnoxious, knuckle dragger. Which is a hard character to get anyone to like. And I do not understand people who do like people with that kind of personality.

I don't think Jackie needed any more character development to form an opinion about him, In the six month cut seen, it was quite easy to see what kind of guy he was by his actions.

You also say {It is clearly noticeable that both Jackie and V knew each other long before the events of CP2077} that only holds true with the Corpo play through.
When you play the street kid play through they had just met and did not know each other at all.

I think the reason why Jackie tends to try and be a 'loud' character is because of his upbringing that we do not see but is mentioned within the game. The way his father treated both him and his mother probably brought a lot of emotions such as this out, it seems like he didn't really have a great upbringing which is unfortunate. So this and living the gangster lifestyle probably resulted in the reason why he acts the way he does. Deep down though, he is a caring individual and as I already mentioned it is why I like him, but I understand why others do not and have no real issues with that. We are all different and can all form our own opinion. I personally can look past the 'obnoxious' side of him and I also understand how childhood trauma can affect someone.

It reminds me of my favorite Baldur's Gate 3 character (because of a somewhat similar background) and how a lot of people form (what I believe) is somewhat of an unfair opinion of them, however that matter is for a different game altogether.

Basically with what I'm trying to get at with all of this, is that due to the character's tragic upbringing it more than likely had an influence on how we see that character now.

Anyway, I personally do think Jackie needs more character development regardless of how people currently think of him, it is needed for the story to feel more whole and complete. The montage is a mess and should never of happened that way. I personally deep down despite not exactly being a fan of CP2077, would still like to see more Jackie.
Who knows hopefully if it was done properly and with care, it may swindle people who at present dislike him into actually understanding him more and changing their prior opinion of him.

Also, whilst that may be true regarding the Corpo path. If I remember correctly during the Heist mission before both V and Jackie reach their room they mention staying at a hotel somewhere, again unfortunately we do not see this. So whilst their relationship is more noticeable during the Corpo run, it is also noticeable during other parts of the game too. Unless that was a Corpo related comment? I'm not really sure on that as I only did Corpo BUT I do have my doubts.
 
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loyalty means nothing in corpo world today, not sure why it would in 2077. but being able to read the writing on the wall is everything.. and ofc he would believe it -- he clearly already knew about it. no reason V had to get caught up in the churn if he/she has skills that are valuable

by loyalists, I mean people who have established a clear relationship and mutual benefit. Any exchange requires measures of trust and mutual understanding. V doesn't have this.

V has skills, but every player of Abernathy level has multiple people with V's skill set. And V is more unpredictable, according to their evaluation. There is no reason to take a risk and trust V.

If V goes to Abernathy, V's fate is out of V's own hands and dependent on Abernathy's mercy. If V pulls off the assassination, that is dependent on V's skills. Even IF v is the cutthroat corpo with no morals, Abernathy is not a good bet for gaining the most.
 
I wasn't sad when Jackie died, I found his characters' mannerisms and general way of speaking didn't suit the game, at least the game I was expecting. Haven't beat the game yet but I'm glad I don't have to listen to him anymore.
 
Deadwood was fucking awesome. I've watched it twice. The movie was a let down. That wasn't McShane's fault, it was the damn director.

I've watched the Deadwood series all the way through twice. I feel a third time approaching soon.

Al Swearingen, the man you both loved and hated more than any other controversial character on film (my opinion, of course)!

Agreed he played a really good part in it! Loved the series but the film was lacking
 
well, if you don't like jackie you are just plain evil... all jests aside. i have to say i like jackie, and i don't feel he's out of place.
and i've started toons on all 3 lifepaths, the only odd thing to me is that on the streetkid path that V and jackie didn't meet till the GTA attempt. as it seemed v spent a lot of time in the old coyote, figured they'd have had to meet before then.
 
I didn't like T-Bug at all, like at all... Jackie was "ok" but not that memorable to me.

In the Corpo opening Jackie is already calling V like they were best chooms, while she is trying to work.
Cos in other lifepath you meet Jackie for first time. In corpo he is your friend for a long time.
 
If you remember those cut animations, there were a lot of time past from the first meet until the game started after moving to NC. For the sake of brevity, it looked to me like they skipped a lot of boring bonding.

BTW, I like your Ian McShane avatar. Very underrated actor.

Maybe CDP isn't good at making "small talk" quests. The game didn't give enough quality time with Jackie to care about him, and him sneaking right in front of enemies and not jumping the alarms, not ever dying from anything (and when he was hurt he could have used a supermedkit, like V does all the flippin time), and glitching into stuff definitely doesn't help.

I prefer the "corpo tool" takemura. But actually I couldn't find an engaging character in night city, not like paul denton or tracer tong in deus ex, or hermann or anna even though they were villains. Johnny was ok, but quite annoying if im honest.

In gta vice city you had lance vance, and I still remember the bastard, so many years later. That was an example of a character well developed, with whom your share a fair amount of time and experiences and has a cohesive conclusion. CP77 has none of that.
 
I definitely felt impact of Jackie's death. The funeral felt very powerful. Disappointing though at Afterlife, you talk to Claire about his drink but you can't order one.
Playing as Corpo definitely helped, where the guy literally saves your life when it would have been so much easier and safer to simply look the other way.
 
Jackie had his quirks but also his charm
Judy someone you can relate to when the world crappy
Wish could have saved Evelyn
Panam a possible lover
Johnny Silverhands a prick, he someone i would put a bullet in the head if ever i had to deal with.

but you play a loner for the most part and do gigs/contracts
 
I know I know shoot me now...!

But I really did not like him, loud and obnoxious best describe him to me.
I also think he was just using V because he/she was better than he was at doing many things he could not do. And he saw V as his ticket to the big time.

He really shows his true colors at the Afterlife meeting and on the drive to the heist. Where he seemed to be barely in control of himself. And he was obviously only thinking of himself. In the conversation they had V was obviously worried he was going to blow the heist, if he did not control himself. And I was actually glad he died, because I really did not want to put up with him anymore.

If he had been made a permanent partner, I would have never called on him for anything. He was the kind of guy who I would avoid in real life also.
A real knuckle dragger.

I didn't like that I couldn't knock a little sense into him about his mother's feelings. I know the story has to force him down that path, but it is a little annoying to see it all glorified. I have my own experience with gang life, believe it or not. I wasn't initiated, but close enough to have a few friends now dead or serving life in prison. It isn't cool at all. It's pathetic. Especially with someone like Jacky's mom who has already lost sons, and Jacky is concerned about b.s. like being a "legend", instead of taking care of his mom. Worse yet, he doesn't see his own mom as an example of success. She owns a bar and seems pretty content. Funnily, she isn't all that different from Rogue, in that respect. Hell, not even Rogue plays up the Legend crap that Jackie does. She wears a Survive shirt, after all. That's probably the biggest irony in the game's story. How funny it is for Jacky to reach the Afterlife, only to find someone similar to his mom.
 
I didn't like that I couldn't knock a little sense into him about his mother's feelings. I know the story has to force him down that path, but it is a little annoying to see it all glorified. I have my own experience with gang life, believe it or not. I wasn't initiated, but close enough to have a few friends now dead or serving life in prison. It isn't cool at all. It's pathetic. Especially with someone like Jacky's mom who has already lost sons, and Jacky is concerned about b.s. like being a "legend", instead of taking care of his mom. Worse yet, he doesn't see his own mom as an example of success. She owns a bar and seems pretty content. Funnily, she isn't all that different from Rogue, in that respect. Hell, not even Rogue plays up the Legend crap that Jackie does. She wears a Survive shirt, after all. That's probably the biggest irony in the game's story. How funny it is for Jacky to reach the Afterlife, only to find someone similar to his mom.

Jackie got out the gang life though, and the pain his mother went through was one of the primary reasons. He's basically anti gang


Being a Merc is seen as a legit Job in Night City. Wanting to be a legendary merc, is like wanting to a legendary cop, or soldier is in our society.

But yeah, Jackie's mom appears to be one of the few people succeeding in her own way in NC (as far as we know). I think he respects his mom. He just sees being a merc as the best way for him to succeed in NC.
 
Personally I like Jackie's loud outgoing personality. I think it's just great. If anything, I wish V had better dialogue choices.

The heist has a few examples of this...

Your on the way to the corpo hotel and Jackie is super hyped about the delamain excelsior package. If you click the first option, V comments that Jackie has 'lost his grip'.

When I hear V say that I think to myself like "tf you mean? Hes just excited, shutup V!" I always tell Jackie to "forget about it" afterwards because the other options are you calling him vain. Which I say is pretty lame. Hes spent his whole life scraping by, and hes excited about "the big leagues". Realistically I'd be just as excited and hyped as he was.

Then your in the elevator and I forgot what Jackie said, but your given the option to either say "why, cause you said so?" Or "talk to t-bug". I hate both those options because it seems like your just taking your anger out on Jackie. Which both seem rude and unnecessary. I went silent there cause I didn't like either of those options and chose to have an awkward silent staring contest with my dying friend.

Though I digress. My point being, I like Jackie, and he's a cool character. No he isnt perfect, but he seems like the kinda guy that's an overall good dude. He was wrong to try skip out on paying my nomad V on the first mission, but he quickly took you into his home and treated you like family. You may not like his personality. Whatever. But the guy is alright in my book. I also thought him and Misty made a great couple. I loved listening to them talk together. Which is all the more reason I feel sorry for Misty in the heroes mission. I like to imagine Mama Welles and Misty got together and found common ground in Jackie.

T-bug on the other hand... She isnt good at socializing or just doesn't like doing it? I dunno... However she was alright. I like her too. I like Jackie a lot more, but T is aight.
 
The character Jackie Welles is alright

The forced friendship isn't

He served his purpose i suppose of introducing me to NC an the basic gameplay mechanics well enough

Do i want dlc to flesh the forced friendship out more an try actually make me twitch with some emotion when he dies?? No not really
 
First of all: I'm aware that this is a game and his character actually fits into Night City. That is not my problem with characters like Jackie, the bad writing is.

For me Jackie Welles is a murderer and thief motivated by his goal to go up in the world and become a legend. He most likely killed dozends of people before you even meet him, a character like him would never act like Jackie does. He is just a walking hollywood cliche and i dislike badly written characters like that.

If you screw up the sneaking part in "the heist" for example you literally kill dozends of people with him and these people are not the "bad" guys. Noone will ever comment about this mass murder of security personell. Jackie is cursing and screaming like a madman the entire time (actually he started screaming while i was still sneaking, cause he bugged out).

Sure you might say it is just a game and yes you are 100% rigth it is just a game, but the same company has created the Witcher series and these games actually had believable characters.
Geralt, The Bloody Baron, Keira Metz, Vernon Roche, Siegmund Dijsktra to just name a few (yes i had to look some of them up). You know what the difference between them and most characters in Cyberpunk is? They are depicted as belivable human beings. They have goals, interests, problems and flaws.

What does Jackie have? Goal = Legend, Interest = Legend, Problem = Not legend yet, Flaws = ...
And regarding him getting out of the gangs, sorry but he is a merc now. He literally does the exact same thing he did before, the only difference is that he does work for both sides instead of just one side.
 
First of all: I'm aware that this is a game and his character actually fits into Night City. That is not my problem with characters like Jackie, the bad writing is.

For me Jackie Welles is a murderer and thief motivated by his goal to go up in the world and become a legend. He most likely killed dozends of people before you even meet him, a character like him would never act like Jackie does. He is just a walking hollywood cliche and i dislike badly written characters like that.

If you screw up the sneaking part in "the heist" for example you literally kill dozends of people with him and these people are not the "bad" guys. Noone will ever comment about this mass murder of security personell. Jackie is cursing and screaming like a madman the entire time (actually he started screaming while i was still sneaking, cause he bugged out).

Sure you might say it is just a game and yes you are 100% rigth it is just a game, but the same company has created the Witcher series and these games actually had believable characters.
Geralt, The Bloody Baron, Keira Metz, Vernon Roche, Siegmund Dijsktra to just name a few (yes i had to look some of them up). You know what the difference between them and most characters in Cyberpunk is? They are depicted as belivable human beings. They have goals, interests, problems and flaws.

What does Jackie have? Goal = Legend, Interest = Legend, Problem = Not legend yet, Flaws = ...
And regarding him getting out of the gangs, sorry but he is a merc now. He literally does the exact same thing he did before, the only difference is that he does work for both sides instead of just one side.

you misunderstand night city.

the security personnel are trained killers, the cops are trained killers, the gangster are killers. Their lives are a war for survival. V is a killer. Jackie doesn't love killing, he kills when its him or the other guy. If you do corpo beginning, you see he doesn't take hit jobs, (corpo V does though). Corporations are thieves, read the shards, they commonly send security to rob and kill whoever they need to. Also Jackie follows Vs lead, if you go stealth, he goes stealth. Every character does the same killing Jackie does, even Judy. Little kids have Guns. He is a soldier with no choice.
This is not a peaceful world. In spite of this Jackie holds on to optimism, he tries to tell jokes and break the tension he wishes for success, so maybe one day he doesn't have to live this life. Yes, they have people who kill during their job, and still tell jokes and seem goofy in other situations. this isn't unreal.

Jackie wants to make it, because In NC you either succeed or you die. He quit the Valentinos. As a merc, you choose what you will, or won't do. In a gang/corpo you do as ordered. I mean if you hate Jackie for killing, you must hate every other charachter in the game. except maybe Kerry, Misty, Vic.
Add panam, Saul, rogue, Johnny, Judy, V, River, aldecados, Takamura, to your list.
 
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