I don't like Panam Palmer

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I liked Panam quite a bit in my FemV nomad playthrough. Sure, she starts off using V like everyone else (and just like V is using her), but by the end of the game, she's was the one who came to the rescue when she didn't have to. I do think she's too harsh with Saul ... but Saul's decisions haven't exactly been great, so I get the frustration.
 

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I liked Panam quite a bit in my FemV nomad playthrough. Sure, she starts off using V like everyone else (and just like V is using her), but by the end of the game, she's was the one who came to the rescue when she didn't have to. I do think she's too harsh with Saul ... but Saul's decisions haven't exactly been great, so I get the frustration.
Interesting. I have a few thoughts here:
I had a RL friend with a personality just like Panam, it was mindblowing what a match the character was. So, if I judge Panam's character correctly by comparing the two, that "willing to help" doesn't come from "big heart" - it's more insecurity, willing to increase self-esteem, seeking acceptance, establishing own authority, because she can't accept any other, etc. Basically, a form of manipulation, which comes from weak personality (I know how it sounds, but it's actually a thing).

Saul's being cautious and has been making those decisions for a good reason - his people's lives in his hands. Just because he doesn't want to do it Panam's way ("ah, f**k it, let's do that crazy s**t and hope for the best"), doesn't mean he is wrong. I also think she shouldn't have been available as a LI - her and Saul look like a perfect match and have much more chemistry. I thought they were a couple when I saw them arguing for the first time.

I wouldn't say V really uses Panam. IIRC, the chronological order is this: V came to Rogue, she told them to solve Panam's problem first, so she can help V. The rest of it is Panam's "willing to help" or her dragging V into her mess, because whatever her own reasons were.
 
And she forces you to help her, get her truck and supplies back before she will help you.
I've heard this point made before. Do you not think it is hypocritical?

You say she is selfish for not helping you for nothing in return, yet expect her to help you... for nothing in return?

Throw the protagonist syndrome out of the window for Cyberpunk. V might be the protagonist of the game, but he/she isn't the protagonist of Night City. Nobody is.

But yes she is flawed, we all are. Good character writing creates flaws. Her reaction to you asking for help against Arasaka is all you need to know about her. Doesn't even hesitate, jumps right in the deep end to bring you up for air.
 
So, if I judge Panam's character correctly by comparing the two, that "willing to help" doesn't come from "big heart" - it's more insecurity, willing to increase self-esteem, seeking acceptance, establishing own authority, because she can't accept any other, etc. Basically, a form of manipulation, which comes from weak personality (I know how it sounds, but it's actually a thing).
Sounds like a lot of speculations about motives here, and projecting some IRL stuff onto a video game character. I mean, she risks her life to save V at the end. Putting your life on the line is not a typical manipulation tactic in my experience.
I wouldn't say V really uses Panam. IIRC, the chronological order is this: V came to Rogue, she told them to solve Panam's problem first, so she can help V. The rest of it is Panam's "willing to help" or her dragging V into her mess, because whatever her own reasons were.
V is absolutely using Panam to get to the Arasaka guy. They're using each other. That's business. It's fine both ways.
 

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Sounds like a lot of speculations about motives here, and projecting some IRL stuff onto a video game character. I mean, she risks her life to save V at the end. Putting your life on the line is not a typical manipulation tactic in my experience.

V is absolutely using Panam to get to the Arasaka guy. They're using each other. That's business. It's fine both ways.
Well, yeah, that's what I said, you just summarized what I said. These characters were created by people, who, pretty much, project their RL stuff on these characters, in one way or another and most of them were inspired by real people or, at least, their personal features. How do you think they come up with them?

"Risks her life." She does that all the time, right from the first mission with her, when she wants to attack the Raffen Shiv holdout, then when freeing Saul, then when wants to steal the tank, going against Biotechnica, and so on, nothing special here.

I actually don't really remember their conversations before the Helman capture mission, so won't insist on that one.

The "using each other" thing, V asked - she agreed, because that's kinda crazy s**t she does all the time.
 
I wouldn't say I *hate* Panam, she has some of the best lines in game, and her can-do attitude is fantastic, but I think she gets a free pass on a lot of flaws, as criticism is often met with 'dAt ASs tHo'

I think my dislike of her mainly stems from her tantrums. I generally don't mind characters with anger as part of their personality - I like Judy and Kerry a lot in fact - but Panam's outbursts feels like she's doing it because it will get her her own way, rather than anything else. In the first mission with her, V is literally there to help solve her problem, and she just doesn't want to listen. Then after V does hash out a deal were everyone gets what they want, Panam tries to change the deal to get revenge after V fills their side, and Panam has yet to fulfill hers. If V refuses, she blows up, and even throws in a gaslighty 'I thought you were more than just a for-the-pay-merc' comment, which is odd, considering at that point she and V have known each other than less than 24 hours, and depending on V's dialogue choices, she could have been fantastically rude to them throughout the mission.

Her interactions with Saul as well don't paint her in a great light. In particular, when she and Saul are trying to settle their differences during the storm, he makes a completely fair comment that she can't expect to be first in line all the time, that she's one of the family. Again, she becomes scathingly angry, like she expected her opinion to be front and center upon her return. That sort of carries over to the next mission, were she informs V that the veteran Aldecados agree with her plan over Saul's - but looking around, there are dozens of Nomads not involved with her plan, and her group numbers about 5-6. It implies that Panam wasn't sure the vast majority would go with attacking the convoy, but she does it anyway, knowing it will affect all of them, regardless. This isn't to say Saul is right, but the fact she dismisses a huge portion of her family is, as the kids would say, a yikes from me.

Also, Panam never paid me for doing that convoy mission. This was a glitch. This is not Panam's fault. I am still salty. Anyway.

Also also, having to repeatedly tell her to back off with Vincent got a bit tiring after a while. River still takes the Creeper Crown, but honestly Panam's inability to take 'no' for an answer got a bit uncomfortable as the narrative went on. I know this is 100% the writing, as Panam comes across as the 'default' LI - another poster said she was like Liara, and it is exactly like that; it's like the game cannot conceive the idea of a V who just ain't into her.
 

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I wouldn't say I *hate* Panam, she has some of the best lines in game, and her can-do attitude is fantastic, but I think she gets a free pass on a lot of flaws, as criticism is often met with 'dAt ASs tHo'

I think my dislike of her mainly stems from her tantrums. I generally don't mind characters with anger as part of their personality - I like Judy and Kerry a lot in fact - but Panam's outbursts feels like she's doing it because it will get her her own way, rather than anything else. In the first mission with her, V is literally there to help solve her problem, and she just doesn't want to listen. Then after V does hash out a deal were everyone gets what they want, Panam tries to change the deal to get revenge after V fills their side, and Panam has yet to fulfill hers. If V refuses, she blows up, and even throws in a gaslighty 'I thought you were more than just a for-the-pay-merc' comment, which is odd, considering at that point she and V have known each other than less than 24 hours, and depending on V's dialogue choices, she could have been fantastically rude to them throughout the mission.
Manipulative behaviour. I remember that she called V for the 'Riders on the storm' mission, tells nothing what's it about, and if V tells her that they will help, but later - she, in a very childish way, says something like: oh, sure, whenever you finish your important business, or something like that. Like she expected V to drop everything and come to her, because she called. It's like calling a dog to your leg.
Her interactions with Saul as well don't paint her in a great light. In particular, when she and Saul are trying to settle their differences during the storm, he makes a completely fair comment that she can't expect to be first in line all the time, that she's one of the family. Again, she becomes scathingly angry, like she expected her opinion to be front and center upon her return. That sort of carries over to the next mission, were she informs V that the veteran Aldecados agree with her plan over Saul's - but looking around, there are dozens of Nomads not involved with her plan, and her group numbers about 5-6. It implies that Panam wasn't sure the vast majority would go with attacking the convoy, but she does it anyway, knowing it will affect all of them, regardless. This isn't to say Saul is right, but the fact she dismisses a huge portion of her family is, as the kids would say,
Another good point, which kinda bugged me - she absolutely accepts no authority other than her own, even V points that out during their first mission. She does whatever she wants, without really thinking ahead, and expects people to follow her because...whatever's the logic.

She basically calls Saul a little b*tch, because he wants to make a deal with Biotechnica, when he wants a better life for his people. All of them. Not her priorities, though. (And he wants her to participate in decision-making process for the clan - which is stupid).

I absolutely dislike this character, but I'm glad the writers do put complex characters like her, even if most people will simply go for "dat ass" and/or think she's just a sweetheart with an altitude and adorable tantrums...and "dat ass".

Props to the cast people and the voice actress' performance and direction - excellent jobs all around.
 
Wouw so tough with her here :D
She basically calls Saul a little b*tch, because he wants to make a deal with Biotechnica, when he wants a better life for his people. All of them. Not her priorities, though. (And he wants her to participate in decision-making process for the clan - which is stupid).
She is the only one in camp who want to save him.
She's wild and have a temper. But once the ice is broken, she has a huge heart (well hidden).
I loke her, no more than Judy obviously :D
 

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Wouw so tough with her here :D

She is the only one in camp who want to save him.
She's wild and have a temper. But once the ice is broken, she has a huge heart (well hidden).
I loke her, no more than Judy obviously :D
That's true.
Eh, I'll disagree with the rest, though.

Interestingly enough, there isn't this much love for Rogue, who, in my opinion, is another great character, that should've been present in the game more.
 
I'm always surprised by the lack of Rogue love as well. She has good reason to treat V with skepticism, as from her perspective, V is the new kid on the scene, as they have six months of merc work behind them at most. But you can earn her respect, and you know what? She turns into a cool old lady who who can quite literally give up everything so Johnny and V can shoot their shot in the endgame, despite it being not in her interest at all.

Panam is much more equal to V in terms of merc experience, and she has lost her truck, her cargo, and her partner. But when V finds her and offers her fair trade in services, and she makes a rude comment about their reputation. It makes no sense why she's so hostile to V. IF she was just stand-offish I'd get it, it's NC, thems the brakes, but she goes straight to damningly personal to a complete stranger.

Manipulative behaviour. I remember that she called V for the 'Riders on the storm' mission, tells nothing what's it about, and if V tells her that they will help, but later - she, in a very childish way, says something like: oh, sure, whenever you finish your important business, or something like that. Like she expected V to drop everything and come to her, because she called. It's like calling a dog to your leg.

I forgot about that! She pulls the same stunt if you refuse to go with her and the vets on the convoy attack, makes a dismissive, passive aggressive comment about V in general. And if you do go away, the quest just lurks like a bad smell in the journal, you can't even fail it. Or at least, it didn't fail when I left.
 
Panam is much more equal to V in terms of merc experience, and she has lost her truck, her cargo, and her partner. But when V finds her and offers her fair trade in services, and she makes a rude comment about their reputation. It makes no sense why she's so hostile to V. IF she was just stand-offish I'd get it, it's NC, thems the brakes, but she goes straight to damningly personal to a complete stranger.
I imagine a stranger who said me: "i tell you where your stuff is only IF you help me". I don't know if I would answer him kindly :)
She said you that about your reputation, it's because you said : "he believe you?". Personnaly, i also take it that bad.

We like her or not, but at least she leaves no one indifferent. It was the goal I think :)
 

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I'm always surprised by the lack of Rogue love as well. She has good reason to treat V with skepticism, as from her perspective, V is the new kid on the scene, as they have six months of merc work behind them at most. But you can earn her respect, and you know what? She turns into a cool old lady who who can quite literally give up everything so Johnny and V can shoot their shot in the endgame, despite it being not in her interest at all.
I think she is pretty cool from the start. She could've acted as a b*tch, but she acts cool right from the start. Probably one of the consistently better written characters. Sure, she is older than most of the ladies in V's story, but not every female has to be a potential LI, although the game gets there...kinda-sorta.
I forgot about that! She pulls the same stunt if you refuse to go with her and the vets on the convoy attack, makes a dismissive, passive aggressive comment about V in general. And if you do go away, the quest just lurks like a bad smell in the journal, you can't even fail it. Or at least, it didn't fail when I left.
Yup, I understand the reaction first time they've met, or even when she called for Saul's rescue, but at this point there is some relationship and trust going on (possibly even random sex), so that's just childish.
Post automatically merged:

We like her or not, but at least she leaves no one indifferent. It was the goal I think :)
Huge credit to everyone involved :)
 
I imagine a stranger who said me: "i tell you where your stuff is only IF you help me". I don't know if I would answer him kindly :)
She said you that about your reputation, it's because you said : "he believe you?". Personnaly, i also take it that bad.

We like her or not, but at least she leaves no one indifferent. It was the goal I think :)
What it comes across as is that Panam wants all of her mistakes solved by V for doing nothing in return. Even as a relative newcomer to NC, she must've picked up by now that just is not how it works. And V (male V at least) can be very upfront about where they got the information on her, and that they are willing to help her and in return, get what they need, so that everyone walks away happy. I think the skepticism from V's part is more than warranted - so far all Panam has done is lose all her stuff, yell at Rogue, and yell at them. As far as they know, Panam is a massive jinx for merc work!

I get where you're coming from, but honestly I think she's written like we're supposed to be close to her, which is going to get people's backs up regardless of how well or not she's presented.
 
I did one post on why I did not like Jackie Welles and it went better than I expected.
No one wanted to shoot me!

So I thought I would do the same kind of post on everyone's favorite girl Panam Palmer.
So if you guys can stop thinking about her backside, and think about her personality this should go well.

I find that she is just another Jackie Welles in several of the same ways that I did not like him.
Loud, obnoxious, overbearing, and only thinks of herself, and is willing to do what ever it takes to get what she wants.
She goes on about how she loves her clan but at the same time is willing to put them at risk for her own needs.

She is a ex-nomad for those very reasons, she wanted to do everything her way, and she found out the hard way that it was the family's leader, Saul, who was ultimately in charge and the rest of the clan followed him.
So she had had a temper tantrum and left for night city where she thought she could make it on her own, but found out again the hard way, that she was not in charge.
Her attitude about Rogue parallels her attitude about the family's leader Saul. She doesn't like to be told what to do, and she thinks she is always right and deserves instant respect even without earning it.

She does not want to help you and is only doing it because she realizes that she would be burning down another bridge with Rogue and would then have nowhere to go.
And she forces you to help her, get her truck and supplies back before she will help you.

She wants to be the boss no matter what, look at the way she has you, going around turning on the lights and a heat, without lifting a finger to help.
She even puts her feet on you like your furniture, and she knows you will do it, because you're too busy thinking about getting between her leg's.

I just do not like people like this, you cannot trust them, they would sell you out in a second, to get whatever they want for themselves.

Yes she has a lovely backside but her personality is ugly.
I think I'm in love with her now :ohstopit:
And yes, she has the best rear view since Jan Ors from Jedi Outcast :ok:
 
More I played, the less I liked her character traits. (actually this applies to all the characters to a certain degree)

I did the nomad/rogue ending, streetkid/panam and corpo/suicide playthroughs. I liked the corpo the best probably since I learned what the game was about and my first ending with johnny on the bus (wtf, did I just watch a japanese/russian movie?)

As a corpo, I treated Panam strictly as a job. I helped her get her truck but not kill Nash. Not part of the deal. When she texted about her problems I was noncommittal, because basically, not my problem. I helped with Saul for payment (the rifle). After she put her legs on me, I chose the "little too comfortable" option. When Panam asked to steal the basalisk and said I should leave if I didn't like, I left. Panam and crew just sat at the train station forever. I finally drove over and when Panam asked why I was helping, I choose the "for payment of course" option (never got paid, btw).

As for the Panam character, I didn't like her attitude, didn't wanted to romance/bff . Problem was, the game wants play it certain way.

The developers seem to expect you romance/friendzone these characters. In my playthrough, River was the worst (for female V). (seriously wanted a "Not interested guy, fuck off" dialogue option).

I really wanted a "Our business is done" tree for all the characters
 
More I played, the less I liked her character traits. (actually this applies to all the characters to a certain degree)

I did the nomad/rogue ending, streetkid/panam and corpo/suicide playthroughs. I liked the corpo the best probably since I learned what the game was about and my first ending with johnny on the bus (wtf, did I just watch a japanese/russian movie?)

As a corpo, I treated Panam strictly as a job. I helped her get her truck but not kill Nash. Not part of the deal. When she texted about her problems I was noncommittal, because basically, not my problem. I helped with Saul for payment (the rifle). After she put her legs on me, I chose the "little too comfortable" option. When Panam asked to steal the basalisk and said I should leave if I didn't like, I left. Panam and crew just sat at the train station forever. I finally drove over and when Panam asked why I was helping, I choose the "for payment of course" option (never got paid, btw).

As for the Panam character, I didn't like her attitude, didn't wanted to romance/bff . Problem was, the game wants play it certain way.

The developers seem to expect you romance/friendzone these characters. In my playthrough, River was the worst (for female V). (seriously wanted a "Not interested guy, fuck off" dialogue option).

I really wanted a "Our business is done" tree for all the characters

If you tell Saul about Panam's plans, the Aldecaldos-ending gets cut off, and you never hear from Panam ever again. I did this with one of the six play-throughs to see what it was like.
 
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