I hope CP2077 also has attractive men.. ;-;

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Well, not to defend the (supposed) lack of equal options on both sides, but the majority of the audience are straight males.

Numerous studies has shown the male/female ratio was closer to 50/50. We're not in the 90s anymore. Beside, among the male audience there is a fair percentage of homosexuals, which reduce the ratio of straight male even more in the grand scheme of things.

It's very easy to assume there are more straight male gamers when AAA studios keep making them the target audience. It gives an impression of numbers. It's like the whole chicken vs. egg debate: Do we believe there are less female gamers because it's a fact or because games keep ignoring this demographic?
 
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Numerous studies has shown it was closer to 50/50. We're not in the 90s anymore. Beside, among the male audience there is a fair percentage of homosexuals, which reduce the ratio of straight male even more in the grand scheme of things.
If we're counting mobile games, yes, the percent is much closer to equal. I personally dont, but to each their own. As for homosexuals, they would amount to a few percent, though it's a question how big that percent is in gaming only (as opposed to population numbers)
 
Well, not to defend the (supposed) lack of equal options on both sides, but the majority of the audience are straight males. That said - as a straight male - I haven't seen any "super gorgeous" options so far either (certainly not on the level of Witcher 3), if it's any comfort :whistle:
the poster above is right - the numbers are evening out. The mobile games argument is tired and beaten to death. Every damn time we bring up female gaming demographic folks are like bUt FaRMvIlLe!! Seriously, guys. Please stop excusing the industry's failure to address nearly 50% of the population with tired stereotypes more than a decade old. I have many friends who are female gamers, and I do not run in social circles traditional for gaming.

Irregardless of that - the point is that CD Projekt PROMISED that there would be equal romance options (check page 11 of this thread), and equal treatment in terms of sexualization. In all their marketing, etc, they have all but directly stated that this is not the case.

And sorry the options aren't gorgeous to you? I think they are all very very pretty. Sheesh, you have high standards. Here I am asking for a guy that doesn't look like chain smoker grandpa and you're saying well, the female romance options look like normal people, not like supermodels, so that's the same!
 
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If we're counting mobile games, yes, the percent is much closer to equal.

Female players being mostly on mobile games is a very outdated mentality that isn't entirely true anymore. But let's say for the sake of argument you're right (you're not), don't you think they are mostly on mobile games because very few mainstream games bother to acknowledge female players?

The whole system is a loop. Keep ignoring female/LGBT players and you'll keep having the impression "straight males" are the main demographic over and over again... Until a studio put on a pair of pants and try to do things differently.

We've started these last two generations to have a growth of female characters and wider options. From Dontnod, Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games, Square Enix and their Tomb Raider, Capcom, Bioware...

A company being conservative nowadays is entirely on them.
 

Guest 3573786

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Female players being mostly on mobile games is a very outdated mentality that isn't entirely true anymore. But let's say for the sake of argument you're right (you're not), don't you think they are mostly on mobile games because very few mainstream games bother to acknowledge female players?

The whole system is a loop. Keep ignoring female/LGBT players and you'll keep having the impression "straight males" are the main demographic over and over again... Until a studio put on a pair of pants and try to do things differently.

We've started these last two generations to have a growth of female characters and wider options. From Dontnod, Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games, Square Enix and their Tomb Raider, Capcom, Bioware...

A company being conservative is entirely on them.
They're not a "mentality" (on my part at least), they're results from studies I've seen conducted on this. If you have some newer ones feel free to post (or IM me, sorry mods if this is close to offtopic)
 
They're not a "mentality" (on my part at least), they're results from studies I've seen conducted on this. If you have some newer ones feel free to post (or IM me, sorry mods if this is close to offtopic)

Wikipedia, actually. As of 2018, the ESAC-reported Canadian female to male gamer ratios has been very very close to 50%, though in the USA it got closer to 40% in 2020. It's a moving number and it's increasing.

And like I said, among this 50% of "male gamers", there's obviously a finite (but not negligible) percentage of queers, which put in question even more how much of a majority heterosexual male players are in comparison to everybody else.

At this point it's a perfectly valid criticism to request better representation.
 
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Wikipedia, actually. As of 2018, the ESAC-reported Canadian female to male gamer ratios has been very very close to 50%, though in the USA it got closer to 40% in 2020 (for both video gaming as a whole and PC gaming). It's a moving number and it's increasing.

And like I said, among this 50% of "male gamers", there's obviously a finite (but not negligible) percentage of queers, which put in question even more how much of a majority heterosexual male players are in comparison to everybody else.

At this point it's a perfectly valid criticism to request better representation.
I'm not disputing the total percent; I was referring to the the mobile gaming percent. And per your own link, all the genres where girls dominate the reported stats are genres endemic to mobile gaming - match3, family/farming (causal puzzle actually has lower female percent.) Cut to any genre C2077 relevant, and you'll see where my claim about this game and its core audience comes from (excluding my own personal experience which also confirms this.)

Again, I'm not defending some disproportionate content presence (if any) in C2077, just saying it doesnt surprise me when and if studios cater to the majority of their audience. For my part, I really would like any gamer out there, no matter who they are - to be able to find what they want in gaming.
 
And sorry the options aren't gorgeous to you? I think they are all very very pretty. Sheesh, you have high standards. Here I am asking for a guy that doesn't look like chain smoker grandpa and you're saying well, the female romance options look like normal people, not like supermodels, so that's the same!

Preach. I may be gay, but I'm still able to recognize the female options as pretty and gorgeous, and without a doubt numerous. Straight women/gay men would love for the same treatment. Simple as that.

Also, I've seen the argument of what % women and gay men make up and therefore how much representation they deserve on multiple websites. This is insane. Even if women and gay men only make up 15% of the player base (which is false- it's a lot higher), that's still millions of people who are being 85% ignored, which is enraging when they paid 100% price on release for a game advertised as "equally inclusive" for all types of gamers.
 
I'm not disputing the total percent; I was referring to the the mobile gaming percent. And per your own link, all the genres where girls dominate the reported stats are genres endemic to mobile gaming - match3, family/farming (causal puzzle actually has lower female percent.)

Yet 56% of females own a console as the ESAC 2018 report says. And being mainly on mobile (which we have access to pretty much everywhere outside home unlike consoles) is not mutually exclusive with being a console/computer gaming player. You can be both.

Like I said, it's no surprise that the numbers aren't higher when video games continue to cather to a specific demographic. It took 3 Mass Effect games before femshep was displayed on the cover as an option (and even so, she still shared 90% of her animation with the male character). Assassin's Creed continue to market and use the male character on its cover despite the gender choice and female being canon.

Which brings me back to the chicken and egg. Do women potentially prefer mobile games because at least these actually acknowledge a wider audience or because games like C2077 are simply not interesting to them? And if the latter, why? Because I have the impression that if a game focus on straight males, it's no wonder it doesn't attract more female/queer players. Most of what we've seen from C2077, including trailers, have been from the perspective of a heterosexual male player. You have to search yourself to know about the other options. Bit of a bad way to attract players of all kind.

As long as mainstream studio will continue to deal with queers/females as an afterthought, we'll continue to feel like straight males are a majority and statistics will be biased.

Because I'm pretty sure if a female V was on the cover and if the romances and objectification of genders were the other way around, numbers would play differently.
 
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The main problem i see with these kinda threads is that people look at videogames and think that their views should be reflected onto the game to be viable as a game to them (eg: If i'm not represented in the game i don't care about it, so the game should change), while it's been the other way around for a long time.
We can all agree when Tomb Raider came out the majority of gamers were male (i don't have accurate data but that's the reality i grew up into) and nobody minded that there was no male protagonist option because that's what a game is supposed to do: Depict a character to which you can grow attached to, regardless of gender.
We play for the story, for the gameplay, to be amazed and surprised, not to promote politics or opinions.
Countless titles do that if you just can't stand the direction of a particular game, there are options you can choose from.
It's ok to make your opinion heard, it's not ok to impose yourself.
In short: I believe a game CAN be inclusive, that doesn't mean it HAS to be. And it can nonetheless be an enjoyable experience.
 
So, I read some spoilery stuff about romance options. Not sure if it is a complete list but click if you're curious. The only spoilers are the character names and which gender they prefer. It's a short list so I'm including the female characters as well.

River Ward - male. Romance option for female V. Not sure if we've seen him in official screenshots or trailers, beyond one trailer where you see him sitting on a ledge with his back toward the camera, looking out over the city. Can't recall which trailer now. He is apparently a quest giver for a series of side quests and can be easy to miss.

Kerry Eurodyne - male. Romance option for male V.

Judy Alvarez - female. Romance option for female V.

Panam Palmer - female. Romance option for male V. She's the character from some of the trailers and preview footage that people were calling Nomad Girl.

Meredith Stout - female. Romance option for male V. More of a one night stand.

Alt Cunningham - female. Unavoidable. Part of Johnny Silverhand's content.

Rogue - female. Part of Johnny Silverhand content.

If you want a guide on some of the steps you have to take, and don't mind other spoilers... it's here:

Link: https://www.powerpyx.com/cyberpunk-2077-romance-guide-all-romances/
 
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So, I read some spoilery stuff about romance options. Not sure if it is a complete list but click if you're curious. The only spoilers are the character names and which gender they prefer. It's a short list so I'm including the female characters as well.

River Ward - male. Romance option for female V. Not sure if we've seen him in official screenshots or trailers, beyond one trailer where you see him sitting on a ledge with his back toward the camera, looking out over the city. Can't recall which trailer now. He is apparently a quest giver for a series of side quests and can be easy to miss.

Kerry Eurodyne - male. Romance option for male V.

Judy Alvarez - female. Romance option for female V.

Panam Palmer - female. Romance option for male V. She's the character from some of the trailers and preview footage that people were calling Nomad Girl.

Meredith Stout - female. Romance option for male V. More of a one night stand.

Alt Cunningham - female. Unavoidable. Part of Johnny Silverhand's content.

Rogue - female. Part of Johnny Silverhand content.

If you want a guide on some of the steps you have to take, and don't mind other spoilers... it's here:

Link: https://www.powerpyx.com/cyberpunk-2077-romance-guide-all-romances/

Wow.... that was my worst fear. Only one straight male option for women? Really? with FIVE female options? I'm just... speechless. I really hope that is not the full list, if so that's pretty disappointing.

Had to put your response in spoiler tags.[Mod edit]
 
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The main problem i see with these kinda threads is that people look at videogames and think that their views should be reflected onto the game to be viable as a game to them (eg: If i'm not represented in the game i don't care about it, so the game should change), while it's been the other way around for a long time.

Women couldn't vote for a long time and yet, here we are. Just because things used to be something doesn't void it from evolving and improving.

We can all agree when Tomb Raider came out the majority of gamers were male (i don't have accurate data but that's the reality i grew up into) and nobody minded that there was no male protagonist option because that's what a game is supposed to do: Depict a character to which you can grow attached to, regardless of gender.

Let's not forgot how Lara Croft was portrayed with her unrrealistic proportions for a very long time. While I will forever adore classic Lara for being a strong independant woman (traits she lost with the reboot era) and for pushing female representation forward, her look is what was used through most of her promotional material unfortunately and probably why it was more welcomed.

We play for the story, for the gameplay, to be amazed and surprised, not to promote politics or opinions.
In short: I believe a game CAN be inclusive, that doesn't mean it HAS to be. And it can nonetheless be an enjoyable experience.

Asking for better acknowledgement and awareness of who we are is not "politic", it's just common human decency. Your entire arguments also fall flat since C2077 aims at being a player-driven experience where you build your own character and experience your own journey. We were told there would be a fair split, we all paid (or will pay) for the game, we're all equal customers. So I don't see why we shouldn't express our concerns. We all want to enjoy the game equally here. I'm also not implying the enjoyment of the game or its quality boils down to representation, but when we see hetero male players having more perks and a deeper experience (because of wider story options) for the same price we paid, it's unfair.

Nobody here is asking for LGBT/Female fair representations in every game that exist. Sometime yes, the storyline and the player character will be defined by its story (Uncharted, Watch_Dogs 1, Resident Evil 7, etc)

But Cyberpunk is a RPG, and it offers numerous features that target a specific gender and sexual orientation and give second treatment for the rest. So either they commit at giving equal choices to everyone as they said they would and as the genre implies, or they pick side and own it through and stop all the smoke and mirrors about player options in its marketing campaign.

You should play Dragon Age: Inquisition. That's romance and representation done right.

Countless titles do that if you just can't stand the direction of a particular game, there are options you can choose from.
It's ok to make your opinion heard, it's not ok to impose yourself.

So basically a "take it or leave it" situation. Disappointing argument. I must also point out the irony of saying we should not "impose ourselves" yet there you are, dictacting how things should be according to you.
 
We play for the story, for the gameplay, to be amazed and surprised, not to promote politics or opinions.
...
In short: I believe a game CAN be inclusive, that doesn't mean it HAS to be. And it can nonetheless be an enjoyable experience.
Yikes.
1) The game was advertised for years to be inclusive. So yes, we grew to have expectations that would be the case.
2) A game that offers romances/sexualized behavior but only for certain groups fails to invoke "amazed and surprised" feelings in the players that are overlooked or ignored. It in fact, gives a sense of rejection and betrayal.
3) It's not about politics or opinions. Why do people think equal representation for minorities in RPG games is political? We just are. Normal humans wanting the same things you take for granted. We're not pushing for politics here.

EDIT: Just saw NChabb beat me to most of these points.
 

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Yet 56% of females own a console as the ESAC 2018 report says. And being mainly on mobile (which we have access to pretty much everywhere outside home unlike consoles) is not mutually exclusive with being a console/computer gaming player. You can be both.

Like I said, it's no surprise that the numbers aren't higher when video games continue to cather to a specific demographic. It took 3 Mass Effect games before femshep was displayed on the cover as an option (and even so, she still shared 90% of her animation with the male character). Assassin's Creed continue to market and use the male character on its cover despite the gender choice and female being canon.

Which brings me back to the chicken and egg. Do women potentially prefer mobile games because at least these actually acknowledge a wider audience or because games like C2077 are simply not interesting to them? And if the latter, why? Because I have the impression that if a game focus on straight males, it's no wonder it doesn't attract more female/queer players. Most of what we've seen from C2077, including trailers, have been from the perspective of a heterosexual male player. You have to search yourself to know about the other options. Bit of a bad way to attract players of all kind.

As long as mainstream studio will continue to deal with queers/females as an afterthought, we'll continue to feel like straight males are a majority and statistics will be biased.

Because I'm pretty sure if a female V was on the cover and if the romances and objectification of genders were the other way around, numbers would play differently.
Unless I'm mixing up my polls and studies, that refers to Canadians only and when it comes to console owning part, the question was whether you own a console, not whether you play a console, whether you bought one for your son, whether your household has it, etc. Either way, I dont have a problem with the percent being as is, I've just seen no conclusive evidence for it. And if catering demographics is any indicator, publishers havent seen it either.

Similarly, I have no definitive answer to your chicken/egg dilemma, but I suspect it's more toward the latter. A big part of C2077 is the fps aspect and I wonder how much that appeals to girls (the 7%/93% suggests not much).
Queer people are often an afterthought simply because their percent is small in comparison - which isnt to say I think they should be ignored, again - I want all gamers to have as many options as possible.
And lastly, the question of appeal is a complex one. If all that pushes you away from a game with a wealth of content is the lackluster romance for your personally, imho you dont want to play it that much (you in general, not you personally). I didnt care for a lot of romance choices cdpr made in W3. Did that stop it from being the best game I ever played? Nope.
Games like Life is Strange arent made for me. Did I enjoy it? You bet. For my part, a game doesnt have to go out of its way to cater to me personally; if it's good I'll play it. But maybe I'm the minority there.
 
So, I read some spoilery stuff about romance options. Not sure if it is a complete list but click if you're curious. The only spoilers are the character names and which gender they prefer. It's a short list so I'm including the female characters as well.

River Ward - male. Romance option for female V. Not sure if we've seen him in official screenshots or trailers, beyond one trailer where you see him sitting on a ledge with his back toward the camera, looking out over the city. Can't recall which trailer now. He is apparently a quest giver for a series of side quests and can be easy to miss.

Kerry Eurodyne - male. Romance option for male V.

Judy Alvarez - female. Romance option for female V.

Panam Palmer - female. Romance option for male V. She's the character from some of the trailers and preview footage that people were calling Nomad Girl.

Meredith Stout - female. Romance option for male V. More of a one night stand.

Alt Cunningham - female. Unavoidable. Part of Johnny Silverhand's content.

Rogue - female. Part of Johnny Silverhand content.

If you want a guide on some of the steps you have to take, and don't mind other spoilers... it's here:

Link: https://www.powerpyx.com/cyberpunk-2077-romance-guide-all-romances/
Seriously!
Only one male romance option for male V and It's Kerry!
This is like dragon age inquisition all over again, unless you include the bull.
Man that a major let down! I seriously wanted to romance that sheriff out of all the "potential" people we'd seen.
 
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Wow.... that was my worst fear. Only one straight male option for women? Really? with FIVE female options? I'm just... speechless. I really hope that is not the full list, if so that's pretty disappointing.

Had to put your response in spoiler tags.[Mod edit]

While I think that list probably includes all of the primary romance options, it is entirely possible that there is a male romance option or two that content-wise is the equivalent of Meredith Stout for female V or a gay/bi male V.

I wouldn't *expect* more but it probably can't be ruled out yet.

If the list is complete however the balance is a bit disappointing.
 

Great, fair and interesting reply here. I'll address a specific segment:

A big part of C2077 is the fps aspect and I wonder how much that appeals to girls
[...]
And lastly, the question of appeal is a complex one. If all that pushes you away from a game with a wealth of content is the lackluster romance for your personally, imho you dont want to play it that much

C2077 remains a story-driven game RPG first and foremost which happens to be in first person, it's not a Call of Duty. It's closer to Mass Effect in gameplay (which was fairly popular among females) than other FPS out there. The idea of a player-driven RPG in a Cyberpunk setting has every reasons to attract all type of players.

Beyond the romance being an issue, there is a fair share of gratuitous female nudity being displayed pretty much everywhere, as expected with the whole lust/objectification setting. So even if we ignore the lack of options for romance, a female/queer player will assuredly be exposed to tons of nude females (some of which basically in your face, like carrying a naked woman in your arms during a quest) while everything male-related will be toned down (or plainly censored, as the bathub scene has shown).

In other words, even if you accept you won't have interesting romances (or don't know about it), you'll still be drown in content that doesn't target your sexuality. Male heterosexual content that was heavily marketed and advertised for the duration of the game's production. Even the launch trailer shows close-up of a female romance option. Buying the game and playing it means we'll have to accept to deal with a female/male objectification ratio of 90/10 at almost every turn. That can be a turn off and annoying in the long run.

The marketing department has gone out of its way to target specifically heterosexual male players despite saying at some point we would get equal treatment. So I have every reason to assume the game itself will be repelling to a vast majority of females/queers outside the FPS aspect of it.
 
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