I hope CP2077 also has attractive men.. ;-;

[weirdwayne15]

People seem to be forgetting. We're not all about the sex scenes. I was looking forward to the more realistic relationships promised in the game.

 

[NChabb]

I agree i could have worded that differently, what i meant is that i've experienced these kind of discussions for a long time and i noticed that often people don't appreciate a game for the sole reason that it doesn't resonate with their personality and thus try to change it instead of embracing it and expanding their views.
There's nothing wrong with evolution and improvement but there are different ways to approach the problem.

How would you approach the situation then? Because you're implying we should just accept things as they are because of that's how the game was made or something... That's not how it works. CDPR have/had the means to make it right and they didn't. They can still improve the situation.

What's wrong with Lara's unrealistic proportions? It's a videogame, it doesn't HAVE to be realistic. What about Johnny Bravo? He-Man? EVERY hyper-muscular man in videogames (there's just too many to list).

Didn't say there was anything wrong per se but she was basically a walking inflated breast aiming at triggering young males. That's what she was remembered for by many, in a way, and it's a shame because the games were extremely fun and good, gameplay-wise, and Lara had an amazing personality.

But I disgress.

I'm pretty sure that's what politics are for, either way i'm not denying your right to acknowledgement and awareness, i just don't think a videogame is the best channel for you to obtain them.

I disagree. Games are at the core of our society, they're extremely popular medias, almost as much (if not more) than movies. They aren't this niche basement thing anymore, they offer a lot of visibility.

Sims 1 was among the first game to offer inclusiveness with same-sex relationship. Life is Strange is recognized world-wide for its LGBT themes. The Last of Us 2?

Games offer visibility, features and options that movies/TV shows can't offer. And when it applies, it explores themes and narratives that aren't possible elsewhere. No other media allow to play as either a gay man, a heterosexual female or a trans within the same product.

This visibility is normalizing something that not too long ago was still considered a mental disease.

Normalization through video games and bold moves from specific studios that things have been extremely beneficial and healthy for queers and females as a whole these last two decades.

By equating representation and awareness to "politics", you're unfairly reducing our existence even if you say the opposite. Would you state heterosexual characters and romances are politics? Can't have it one way but not the other.

I never said you shouldn't express your concerns, in fact i said the exact opposite, make your voice heard.
The only clarification i made is that there's a difference between providing your opinion and demanding something.
Do you think they cheated you with false advertising? By all means, feel free to refund and sue them, it's your right.

If one never demand, things never get fixed. They have the means and the tools to improve the experience post-launch. Why shouldn't we request it?

I must admit this is the first time i've heard that RPG implies equal choices.
We're talking about a game that is trying to be as close to real life as possible, everywhere you see there's discrimination (especially against LGBT/Females), so you're telling me they did a good job to emulate that? Or are you denying that those people are discriminated against?
(I'm honestly confused here)

You're confusing a fictive heteronormative society with mismanagement of sexual orientations. Assuming C2077's world is indeed aimed at being heteronormative to reflect our reality, that doesn't mean homosexuality exist "less" as a result. The issues are:

1- The game offering little to no m/m romance option compared to the rest. I don't know what you consider yourself, but as a gay man in a heteronormative society, I have NO issue finding potential dates, sometime more than my straight male friends. So I would have expected that in a sexualized world like C2077 it would be even easier. But it's not, because someone somewhere at CDPR made the cautious choice to offer less because we are not the main demographic.

2- A heteronormative society still doesn't explain and justify the toned down male objectification in general. That's like if you went in a male strip club but they remained clothed for the most part. It kinda voids the purpose of their vocation, the tone and the setting. Male prostitutes/objectification in C2077 are toned down *because of reasons outside the games*, which will pull the player out of the experience

3- Considering the insane amount of trans fetishism ads, I have my doubt about the fictive universe within Cyberpunk being really a "heteronormative society".

4- RPG with character creation and romances options have been widening for two generations now, if not more. Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect (the franchise), Assassin's Creed (Oddyssey and Valhalla), Dragon Age has all been exploring sexual orientations and options for all genders. It has become a norm and expected. CDPR even confirmed that this time we would get a fair share but it was either a lie or miscommunication. Either way it's a downgrade compared to some other games, as far as options are concerned.

I wouldn't be having this debate if V was a defined character. But it was decided that V would be our character and the story would be built on our choices. So yes, it sucks.

i'll try to simplify:
Imagine i come up with a game where you have to score a ball into a net with only your feet otherwise you are penalized (i hope you are familiar with soccer).
Should i be forced to change the rules because there are people without feet?

I get what you are trying to say, , but I'll reitate that "artistic integrity" (the act of preserving the game's vision) is not at play here. It's a lack of care.

This is a RPG "make your own character and own story" game with censored male nudity and toned down male objectification/romances. The reality here is we're just not the target audience and we are an afterthought. This is why there are disappointments.

 

[JexN7]

This isn't the first time i've read the game was advertised for equal sexualization of genders and failed to deliver, i must have missed that. Do you have an official source i could check? I'd like to confirm that myself.

It's obvious so far that for every male stripper, there's 20 female. For every male sexualization ad, there's like 30 female.
This is just one tweet I have saved. I will update this with more just for you.

Now, it is apparent that in romances, 2 male, 5 female. 1 for gays and 1 for straight women. 4 for straight men. This is not proportionate at all.
Side note: Nude females in the ice tub for parts, while the previously nude male, is now covered with underwear.

 

[Ramzah]

View attachment 11073068
It's obvious so far that for every male stripper, there's 20 female. For every male sexualization ad, there's like 30 female.
This is just one tweet I have saved. I will update this with more just for you.

Now, it is apparent that in romances, 2 male, 5 female. 1 for gays and 1 for straight women. 4 for straight men. This is not proportionate at all.

Thanks for the source material, but it says nothing about romances, only sex workers.
I can only think maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe they were talking about the amount of "different models"? Maybe female strippers "spawn" more often due to how the game works and it can be fixed? Kinda like when you spent hours looking for a car in GTA and once you had it, every other car was the same as the one you were looking for. (I'm not saying that's what's happening here, just throwing out ideas).
But if what you say about the disproportionate amount of sex workers is true i can understand your frustration.

 

[JexN7]

Thanks for the source material, but it says nothing about romances, only sex workers.
I can only think maybe it's a coincidence? Maybe they were talking about the amount of "different models"? Maybe female strippers "spawn" more often due to how the game works and it can be fixed? Kinda like when you spent hours looking for a car in GTA and once you had it, every other car was the same as the one you were looking for. (I'm not saying that's what's happening here, just throwing out ideas).
But if what you say about the disproportionate amount of sex workers is true i can understand your frustration.

You don't think 1 romance for gays, 1 for straight women, and 4 for straight men is unbalanced? 2/2/3 would be more proportionate.

 

[Ramzah]

You don't think 1 romance for gays, 1 for straight women, and 4 for straight men is unbalanced? 2/2/3 would be more proportionate.

Of course it's unbalanced, would it be up to me i'd make it 100/100/100.
This doesn't change the fact that they never promised equal romances for all genders (or at least i couldn't find any proof of that), in fact i was always under the impression they said every romanceable npc would have their preferred sexual orientation and thus there would be an imbalance in romance options. (Another reason for me to make multiple playthroughs with different gender characters)

 

[JexN7]

Of course it's unbalanced, would it be up to me i'd make it 100/100/100.
This doesn't change the fact that they never promised equal romances for all genders (or at least i couldn't find any proof of that), in fact i was always under the impression they said every romanceable npc would have their preferred sexual orientation and thus there would be an imbalance in romance options. (Another reason for me to make multiple playthroughs with different gender characters)

"Everyone will get equal amount and quality content"
Honestly, you can find this stuff with a simple google search.
1 poorly done romance with an unattractive NPC for gays is not equal to 4 quality romances for straight men.

 

[gregski]

All right.

Despite multiple moderator requests, this thread keeps ignoring one fundamental rule - which is not spoiling the game content for others.

That is why it will now be locked - temporarily. Please use this time to get familiar with forum rules and cool off a bit.