I love this game!

[kofeiiniturpa]

True, but there's also a lot (and I do mean A LOT) of criticism for not copying systems from some other games. That would also be the opposite of pushing forward, but I doubt those people are seeing the irony.

That’s true.

Although, one might also consider it a step backwards that they don’t even offer that much. Not even substitutes that would fill a similiar gap of those things in the overall experience. Which is what I think at least some of that criticism stems from. Some - quite a few, yes - certainly seem to want just a copy of a game they’ve previously liked, but not all.

From what I’ve read of the criticism, it kinda sounds like wanting CDPR to at least catch up with other games if not push forward.

Now I don’t need barbershops or tattoo parlors, nor vehicle pimping or ”home renovation 2077” feature. I don’t even need police chases (I’d want a different ”wanted system” altogether), the games problems run far deeper than superficial things like those. But I can kinda see why people wonder about omitting stuff like that altogether in a game like this.

 

[Guest 3847602]

That’s true.

Although, one might also consider it a step backwards that they don’t even offer that much. Not even substitutes that would fill a similiar gap of those things in the overall experience. Which is what I think at least some of that criticism stems from. Some - quite a few, yes - certainly seem to want just a copy of a game they’ve previously liked, but not all.

From what I’ve read of the criticism, it kinda sounds like wanting CDPR to at least catch up with other games if not push forward.

Now I don’t need barbershops or tattoo parlors, nor vehicle pimping or ”home renovation 2077” feature. I don’t even need police chases (I’d want a different ”wanted system” altogether), the games problems run far deeper than superficial things like those. But I can kinda see why people wonder about omitting stuff like that altogether in a game like this.

Also true. The problem I'm having with this criticism is that people tend to pick a cornerstone feature of some game and compare it to Cyberpunk to dunk on it. None of them seem bothered by the ultra restrictive mission design of RDR2 or clunkiness of GTA5 combat or agonizingly repetitive quest design of Skyrim. There are important things that Cyberpunk does a lot better than those games, but for some people it's all or nothing.

 

[CS554]

Also true. The problem I'm having with this criticism is that people tend to pick a cornerstone feature of some game and compare it to Cyberpunk to dunk on it. None of them seem bothered by the ultra restrictive mission design of RDR2 or clunkiness of GTA5 combat or agonizingly repetitive quest design of Skyrim. There are important things that Cyberpunk does a lot better than those games, but for some people it's all or nothing.

Also, lot's of critic doesn't have much of context at all.

Perception is sort of curious too. "Tabletop game is more complex" I actually went and watched one hour or so youtube video of gameplay and now, one hour, sounds complex but time was mostly for game keeper to explain how game was played and describing environment and NPC's to players and answering to their questions about what options they have in their situation. Meanwhile it came obvious that CP 2077 has to scram lots of skills on one character, as there's no squad members to specific roles.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Also true. The problem I'm having with this criticism is that people tend to pick a cornerstone feature of some game and compare it to Cyberpunk to dunk on it. None of them seem bothered by the ultra restrictive mission design of RDR2 or clunkiness of GTA5 combat or agonizingly repetitive quest design of Skyrim. There are important things that Cyberpunk does a lot better than those games, but for some people it's all or nothing.

That’s agreeable. And also why I don’t really prefer straight comparisons to other games (barring being a member of a pre-established franchise; like CP2020 here). Throwing features around between franchises doesn’t really work well because the features - at least if they work well in the game they’re in - have an in game relevance (if tgey don’t, they probably aren’t very good, or don’t add anything too valuable).

Also, lot's of critic doesn't have much of context at all.

Perception is sort of curious too. "Tabletop game is more complex" I actually went and watched one hour or so youtube video of gameplay and now, one hour, sounds complex but time was mostly for game keeper to explain how game was played and describing environment and NPC's to players and answering to their questions about what options they have in their situation. Meanwhile it came obvious that CP 2077 has to scram lots of skills on one character, as there's no squad members to specific roles.

You’re not likely to get very deep into a PnP and the relevance of its systems by observing others play for an hour. It’s much more slowburn thing, unless you have experienced players who do not need to be explained much and a session that’s intended to be fast.

2077 should’ve, in my opinion, had around double the skills it has and at least three or four roles (and career packages) for semi-different character possibilities. Now it all centers around being a solo with a twist.

 

[CS554]

You’re not likely to get very deep into a PnP and the relevance of its systems by observing others play for an hour. It’s much more slowburn thing, unless you have experienced players who do not need to be explained much and a session that’s intended to be fast.

That's very interesting way to put it. I mean really.

2077 should’ve, in my opinion, had around double the skills it has and at least three or four roles (and career packages) for semi-different character possibilities. Now it all centers around being a solo with a twist.

Double the skills to enable what sort of interaction with the world in practical sense? I can imagine bartering being a skill, but what else?

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Double the skills to enable what sort of interaction with the world in practical sense? I can imagine bartering being a skill, but what else?

What ever would serve the experience and add to it in at least somewhat meaningful way. It’s a broad question; kind of a ”pick your poison” -type too.

Social skills don’t exist, driving skills aren’t there, a number of utility skills.

Gambling, human perception, persuasion, intimidation, seduction, forgery, library search, wardrobe&style, driving, language(s), personal grooming, disguise…
Some skills are active, others passive, some are more heavily utilized than others. But that’s the way it goes.

Those were just examples, but all of them could’ve had a valid point and use in the game, if there had been an intent on letting the player branch out from the solo/netrunner archetype and giving him more leeway in forming more of his own type of social character instead of… a slightly different version of V.

And there’s more in the 2020 character sheet.

 

[CS554]

What ever would serve the experience and add to it in at least somewhat meaningful way. It’s a broad question; kind of a ”pick your poison” -type too.

Social skills don’t exist, driving skills aren’t there, a number of utility skills.

Gambling, human perception, persuasion, intimidation, seduction, forgery, library search, wardrobe&style, driving, language(s), personal grooming, disguise…
Some skills are active, others passive, some are more heavily utilized than others. But that’s the way it goes.

Those were just examples, but all of them could’ve had a valid point and use in the game, if there had been an intent on letting the player branch out from the solo/netrunner archetype and giving him more leeway in forming more of his own type of social character instead of… a slightly different version of V.

And there’s more in the 2020 character sheet.

I see. I think CP 2077 has skills that enable things in game we have. There's no use for languages when there's cybernetics for that, library skill without library, etc. This isn't really about skills, this is about entirely different game.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I see. I think CP 2077 has skills that enable things in game we have. There's no use for languages when there's cybernetics for that, library skill without library, etc. This isn't really about skills, this is about entirely different game.

Well, yeah, it would’ve been somewhat different game. But not necessarily ”entirely”.

And obviously you can’t just slap a bunch of new skills there anymore (well, some you could), because they need to be integrated into the world too. Their purpose and function would need to be added, but the game is ready and the story is ready.

I’m speaking in conditional on purpose, because these things should’ve been in the in the thoughts from the get go, and I don’t see CDPR adding skills to the game anymore (even those that still could be added).

I think the skillsystem they opted for is narrow and cheap. It kinda suits the game as it is because the central point is pretty narrow too, strict storytelling focus with a predefined character who doesn’t need to do much else but to be able to do loads of combat (or sneaking) and a bit of hacking. But it’s not very interesting because the nearly the whole of it serves one purpose only: combat (which itself is just regular today’s FPS ordeal).

 

[Didacgomez]

Well, yeah, it would’ve been somewhat different game. But not necessarily ”entirely”.

And obviously you can’t just slap a bunch of new skills there anymore (well, some you could), because they need to be integrated into the world too. Their purpose and function would need to be added, but the game is ready and the story is ready.

I’m speaking in conditional on purpose, because these things should’ve been in the in the thoughts from the get go, and I don’t see CDPR adding skills to the game anymore (even those that still could be added).

I think the skillsystem they opted for is narrow and cheap. It kinda suits the game as it is because the central point is pretty narrow too, strict storytelling focus with a predefined character who doesn’t need to do much else but to be able to do loads of combat (or sneaking) and a bit of hacking. But it’s not very interesting because the nearly the whole of it serves one purpose only: combat (which itself is just regular today’s FPS ordeal).

When I 1st launched the game, I felt some mixed feeling: on one hand was "expected"-its CDPR not Troika or Obsidian- in the other hand I was kind of "puzzled" since I'm not sure i've seen before an adaptation of tabletop franchise that practically speaking only takes the lore and the world building-too much credit goes to CDPR for this,when the foundation is 30 years of Rtalsorian...CDPR put the art direction and technology-... if i think in DND,Vampire,Shadowrun,Pathfinder adaptations with more or less success some of the ruleset was adapted.
Overall i enjoyed the game but its true that feels a waste of the IP to only take the lore.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

When I 1st launched the game, I felt some mixed feeling: on one hand was "expected"-its CDPR not Troika or Obsidian- in the other hand I was kind of "puzzled" since I'm not sure i've seen before an adaptation of tabletop franchise that practically speaking only takes the lore and the world building-too much credit goes to CDPR for this,when the foundation is 30 years of Rtalsorian...CDPR put the art direction and technology-... if i think in DND,Vampire,Shadowrun,Pathfinder adaptations with more or less success some of the ruleset was adapted.
Overall i enjoyed the game but its true that feels a waste of the IP to only take the lore.

That’s reasonable; abd I do share a good lot of the thought in it.

The last time something like this - that I cared about - happened was when Bethesda took a massive dump on the Fallout franchise. It’s not exactly a PnP-to-cRPG case, but close enough, and it is quite similiar to what happened here.

I wasn’t exactly expecting CDPR to mimic Troika ir Obsidian, but I did have hopes that the company that had been touted (by themselves too) for ballsiness and all that would have had the balls to steer at least a bit away from the common every saturday design that turns every game the same. Especially since they had such a rich groundwork to build upon.

More than anything, though, I lament the creative bankruptcy in the desing department across the cRPG industry.

Big studios don’t dare to steer away from the FPS/hack’n slash form to not alienate the ”average consumer”, and the notable indies just copy the greats of the past in order to get a foothold in the industry (and because those are the games they and their fans like).

Nobody’s pushing forward or trying new things (and here ”new” might just mean a mix of something old and something new that’s not been mixed before, or done so little that nobody knows about it).

 

[LeKill3rFou]

More than anything, though, I lament the creative bankruptcy in the desing department across the cRPG industry.

Big studios don’t dare to steer away from the FPS/hack’n slash form to not alienate the ”average consumer”, and the notable indies just copy the greats of the past in order to get a foothold in the industry (and because those are the games they and their fans like).

Nobody’s pushing forward or trying new things (and here ”new” might just mean a mix of something old and something new that’s not been mixed before, or done so little that nobody knows about it).

Trying a "new" things on a project where several millions of dollars/euros have been invested it is very (too) risky... It is to risk that it is the very last game of the studio in question (big and famous or small and independent). The time where trying new "things" is quite over
Even if a new thing seem to be great, I can't see anyone invest few (a lot) millions to simply see if this "new thing" is really a "great" and if it will work

 

[Didacgomez]

The last time something like this - that I cared about - happened was when Bethesda took a massive dump on the Fallout franchise.

Wait...are there more Fallouts than 1,2 and New Vegas?

More than anything, though, I lament the creative bankruptcy in the desing department across the cRPG industry.

Big studios don’t dare to steer away from the FPS/hack’n slash form to not alienate the ”average consumer”, and the notable indies just copy the greats of the past in order to get a foothold in the industry (and because those are the games they and their fans like).

Nobody’s pushing forward or trying new things (and here ”new” might just mean a mix of something old and something new that’s not been mixed before, or done so little that nobody knows about it).

On slightly more serious note and trying to stick on the topic on-hand. Thats true, but is business... big studios have to present results to shareholders, so flopping games its not good and they will focus on what gamers and critics praise them most (and CDPR its not that big at the end with only 2 franchises); indies try some stuff but they don´t have the financial muscle to flop more than once... so at the end you have the same recipes. Look at Spiderweb Software, they try "incremental" changes and improvements but they cannot change a lot their recipe because they rely on "old" fan base (still, I like their games).

My ideal solution, in the case at hand, is that a studio like CDPR divest small teams to "indie-like" budget games within their franchises... more limited in scope, less sales but still profitable since they can reuse assets/technology/lore... that would be a "B-Series" of titles where some extra "risk" can be put on their games.

 

[CS554]

When I 1st launched the game, I felt some mixed feeling: on one hand was "expected"-its CDPR not Troika or Obsidian- in the other hand I was kind of "puzzled" since I'm not sure i've seen before an adaptation of tabletop franchise that practically speaking only takes the lore and the world building-too much credit goes to CDPR for this,when the foundation is 30 years of Rtalsorian...CDPR put the art direction and technology-... if i think in DND,Vampire,Shadowrun,Pathfinder adaptations with more or less success some of the ruleset was adapted.
Overall i enjoyed the game but its true that feels a waste of the IP to only take the lore.

Trying a "new" things on a project where several millions of dollars/euros have been invested it is very (too) risky... It is to risk that it is the very last game of the studio in question (big and famous or small and independent). The time where trying new "things" is quite over
Even if a new thing seem to be great, I can't see anyone invest few (a lot) millions to simply see if this "new thing" is really a "great" and if it will work

They made the most expensive video game there is so far. For what it is, more skills like examples mentioned earlier, some of them could add something but in the end, just additional ways to complete the objectives game already enables many different solutions. For game that had to sell 10 million + to even break even, I think having more options would had just convoluted experience. For Driving skill, I see no purpose though it could be said that it was in GTA: San Andreas. It's though that why it was there really? Cars get more grippy and perhaps braking distance gets shorter but in the end, it was about getting players to drive around, try different cars and in process explore San Andreas, all relevant to player skill, even though players were motivated by skill bar that went up.

My ideal solution, in the case at hand, is that a studio like CDPR divest small teams to "indie-like" budget games within their franchises... more limited in scope, less sales but still profitable since they can reuse assets/technology/lore... that would be a "B-Series" of titles where some extra "risk" can be put on their games.

I actually made a topic, which got zero replies: [CP 2077 RELATED] CP 2020 / Red players: What's your wildest stunt?

And there's nothing restricting creating topic for different aspects of tabletop game in context of what scenario was great and how that could work in CP 2077 or spin off.

And it doesn't always need to be something wild. I mentioned video I watched from CP Red play. There's something if you watch it one players character in certain situation says to NPC "Take a walk!" and that could be then discussed what are challenges to implement that in CP 2077. and that.. Video is here in one part: The Apartment Ep.1 | Cyberpunk Red RPG Actual Play I only watched first half. Anyway, it's not for me but I really appreciate those people, they are really having fun and that's nothing to do with super complex systems, they check what they have when it situation calls for that. It's also obvious that while there might be a lot of skills they are not all relevant at the same time.


For something I like in CP 2077, when went to do Delamain HQ my V had relevant skills to do the job. Think that's most important for most of players.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Trying a "new" things on a project where several millions of dollars/euros have been invested it is very (too) risky...

That’s the problem of the entire industry right now. Bloated costs and stunted creativity.

Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2022

Wait...are there more Fallouts than 1,2 and New Vegas?

New… what?

 

[Paneross]

I just picked it up half off just in time for Christmas!

 

[Feline_Witcher]

Wait...are there more Fallouts than 1,2 and New Vegas?

 

[XianeX]

Same here, minus Red Dead. Never played it, and I get all the satisfaction of a western playing Cyberpunk 2077. I'm on my 4th playthrough and I KEEP FINDING NEW SHIT I didn't find the FIRST 3 times! Different mission outcomes that I didn't know were possible, more side mission kind of things with shards, even the glitches tend to either open up things I didn't expect or wouldn't have tried otherwise. I'm still ending up in places that I didn't expect to go. I'm still finding stuff that I've heard about or seen in videos but hadn't gotten around to yet. Likewise, I've got a BUNCH of games, but this one captures much of what I want from a game. I bought Watchdogs 1&2 a long time ago and still have never played them more than a couple of hours "together".

Sometimes I fall into the same trap as others that complain about the game, but I realized that I'm not complaining about the same things or for the same purpose. I want more doors to open, more missions, more intrigue. The game is one HELLUVA Easter egg hunt, and I'm not talking about the plethora of influential callbacks that have been scattered throughout the game.

Yesterday, I followed the twin towers (that you can see in load screens), as far I could go, and was like, "Wait! All of the missions on the Northside are aligned with this TOWER! WTF?! The environment and design of the game is CRAZY, but in a good way! It's hard for me to play and not get deeply philosophical about things that the narrative of the game isn't addressing.

Otherwise, I do have a wishlist for the game, and it's future. Probably an upcuoming thread LOL!

I've racked up 500+ hours which is more than the last 7 games I've played so yeah, I definitely got my moneys worth.
I just started playing Red Dead 2 and frankly, I'm bored...I miss Night City.
View attachment 11271250

 

[nirile1410]

I'm glad for you my friend.
I'm really happy you enjoyed the game.

I would love to, but my PS4 run sorprising bad, so no enjoyement for me.

 

[o0TapeDeck0o]

Hats off to you OP.

This was a tough one for me it really was, I wanted to love this game, but I just never had the urge to progress past the first chapter. This is the only game I own where I feel that way. I then committed heresy and youtubed the whole thing, all the story beats, all the endings, romances, cool clothes and gun locations interesting builds etc etc...

Maybe in the future whenever these planned expansions come out, I might give it another go. At this point it's been so long since I've touched it, I don't think I remember anything lol.​

 

[XianeX]

Hats off to you OP.

This was a tough one for me it really was, I wanted to love this game, but I just never had the urge to progress past the first chapter. This is the only game I own where I feel that way. I then committed heresy and youtubed the whole thing, all the story beats, all the endings, romances, cool clothes and gun locations interesting builds etc etc...

Maybe in the future whenever these planned expansions come out, I might give it another go. At this point it's been so long since I've touched it, I don't think I remember anything lol.​

Why? Also, isn't that contradictory, to not get past the first chapter but also be able to catalog all the endings? LOL I have no idea how that can be done LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!