I read some news, please not again JS in CP2

[J_an]

I read some news that KR would like to be in the next CP game again.

Please not. JS was such an annoying character. (Yes, it was good game design for the story), but please not again. If you have to do something like that again, then please get such a cool buddy as Jacky.

Thanks.

 

[Bartinga2077]

I read some news that KR would like to be in the next CP game again.

Please not. JS was such an annoying character. (Yes, it was good game design for the story), but please not again. If you have to do something like that again, then please get such a cool buddy as Jacky.

Thanks.

They don't necessarily need to play the same character, you know. AS for instance, played the same character in all Terminator movies but a whole different personality every time. Same can be applied here. Personally I hope KR will return in the sequel, because he played his role exceptionally well in the first.

He really loved it and is very enthusiastic about the sequel. Now what kind of a producer could deny that?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I read some news that KR would like to be in the next CP game again.

Please not. JS was such an annoying character. (Yes, it was good game design for the story), but please not again. If you have to do something like that again, then please get such a cool buddy as Jacky.

Thanks.

Don't believe rumors... From what I know it's all based about what Mike said during the live stream and to be fair, I don't think Johnny will come back (or at least, just as side character, nothing more).

 

[Dunaedine]

I read some news that KR would like to be in the next CP game again.

Please not. JS was such an annoying character. (Yes, it was good game design for the story), but please not again. If you have to do something like that again, then please get such a cool buddy as Jacky.

Thanks.

Can be a cameo, not a character with the same level of activity. Don't have hope for Jacky, there is no way he can return. At "best" (for a possibility of return), there is a scrambled engram extracted from a very dead brain, and it seems even Arasaka was unable to extract useful anything from it (or V would have be gunned at her appartment). And I don't see why Arasaka would try to reconstruct this engram even more (and in the majority, of ending, they don't even have his engram anymore with the Mikoshi destruction).

Furthermore, many people loved Silverhand, ever since the beginning. So he's not annoying for everybody. For me, he was annoying in the first part, but he was evolving and in the end, my V and him came to an understanding. So seeing who he is after some years or another incarnation (Black Dog) can be of interest for many people.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Furthermore, many people loved Silverhand, ever since the beginning. So he's not annoying for everybody. For me, he was annoying in the first part, but he was evolving and in the end, my V and him came to an understanding. So seeing who he is after some years or another incarnation (Black Dog) can be of interest for many people.

I saw some people saying that another Johnny's engram could "appear" because like Hellman said, Johnny's engram isn't unique and copies can existe. It's true and possible, but the only thing to keep in mind, it's the Johnny we would meet, isn't the one who "lived" with V. This engram would never have met V nor experience anything which happened in CP77.

 

[Tarille]

Johnny returning could be cool.

Just keep him out of our character's head and don't make him the focus of much of the story.

He can be a side character, either as an engram that is interacted with at points within the story, or if we do any dives into the past to see a story around a character from that time he could be present when applicable.

I mean, a fairly logical inclusion of him would be an engram of him. If we consider that Arasaka may have had a backup copy of the Relic hidden somewhere (Outside of Mikoshi) that they continued development of (Even if V didn't choose The Tower ending, thus giving the actual Relic back to Arasaka). Which they would then use to further their own power, but meaning that there's a Johnny engram sitting on one of their computers somewhere.

If Orion continues the whole "Fuck Arasaka" themes of 2077, then our player character might start to mess with Arasaka and find Johnny's engram... Who'd be very much in favour of helping us take down Arasaka. Then with his engram residing on a computer, he might function as some sort of quasi-AI (Even more so if there's some messing with data that occurs... Likely at the hands of our player character, that gives him AI capabilities and control over some systems)

Meaning, that in this scenario, Johnny makes a return as a character. But we're not hindered by the awful literary mechanic of him being stuck in our brain and becoming more of the main character than who we play as. Of course, one thing to keep in mind is that this would be base Johnny. Not the Johnny that's mixed with some of V's brain and gone through the whole experience of V's journey through Night City. Which could be a little disappointing for Johnny fans.

 

[Fatalist]

I agree. Can we have Ang...a J..ie instead of KR in the next game?

 

[DonLuzolvaz]

I read some news that KR would like to be in the next CP game again.

Please not. JS was such an annoying character. (Yes, it was good game design for the story), but please not again. If you have to do something like that again, then please get such a cool buddy as Jacky.

Thanks.

First of all, johnny is not going to appear in the second game, that's really really obvious (at least not the way he did in 2077, maybe he'll get mentioned or we'll see him in flashbacks and such).

Yes, it was good game design for the story

I'm not understanding this. How is it that his appearance in the game was both good AND annoying at the same time?


I'm a huge fan of KR and absolutely loved his performance in Cyberpunk, so I may be a bit biased, but I see a lot of people say that he was annoying. Why is that? There are moments where he can be annoying but even in those situations, you have the option to shut him up, whether it be in the gameplay (e.g: while driving your vehicle), or if it's in certain story moments (

Spoiler: Spoiler

like when you find Evelyn dead in the bathtub

).

 

[Tarille]

Why is that? There are moments where he can be annoying but even in those situations, you have the option to shut him up

You don't see how HAVING to tell him to shut up because he constantly appears of his own accord can be annoying?

You don't see how being constantly insulted by him if you don't perfectly align with his views can be annoying?

You don't see how him constantly stroking his own ego if you do perfectly align with his views can be annoying?

Also, no, you can't just tell him to shut up in a lot of the situations he appears in. A few you can, but most you have to sit there and listen to him go on about how shit you are and how amazingly perfect he is and how evil Arasaka is.

Even worse, is how the shoddy implementation of him creates a massive dissonance in narrative. You can have your first interactions (Such as the meeting with Takemura at Joe's Diner) where you cuss him out and state how much you hate him and don't want to see him at all... Then you do literally any side content and he appears and V is all chooms and happiness with him - Where again, you can't tell him to "Fuck off" like you did in the main story interaction, he sits there and you both act like you are BFFs and always have been.

Which is the inherent issue with this sort of "Character stuck in your head" thing. While a normal character will only appear in set sequences and only when you choose to interact with them. A character stuck in your head will pop up constantly during completely unrelated scenarios in whatever order you choose to tackle these unrelated scenarios. Meaning it's impossible to write proper continuity while also having situation dependent dialogue.

In addition, unlike a normal character, there's no "Opt in" to their interaction. You at best have to "Opt out" when they've already started talking to you. Like, if for some reason I didn't want to listen to Alistair in DA:O... I'd simply not go and talk to him and not bring him as a companion. For someone like Johnny or Fabien (In VTM: Bloodlines 2) I have to have them stop me, start yapping away and then HOPE that there's a "Fuck off" option to use (And that said option actually ends the conversation... The aforementioned Joe's Diner scene with Johnny can start off with you telling him to "Fuck off" but then he still has his entire conversation with you regardless)

This isn't a new phenomena either. Back in the days of N64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time people found Navi to be annoying with her constant "Hey, listen!" where she announces that she has a dialogue available. You can't turn it off, it's not an opt in (The actual dialogue is, but her screaming "Hey, listen!" is not) and it just serves to annoy people. Ironically, in the same game you had Saria provide the exact same feature where she'll occasionally have dialogue for you, only instead of screaming in your face about it you had to opt in by actually contacting her of your own accord.

So Johnny is made annoying by not only being a very abrasive character, especially at the start of the game (PL mellows him out a bit, but he's still a douche) which people may simply not like and/or not be interested in interacting with. But then he is forced upon you constantly because the method of is inclusion makes his interactions have to be opted out of (When possible). Meaning he's annoying for anyone who either doesn't like him, or doesn't want to interact with him at certain times.

 

[DonLuzolvaz]

You don't see how HAVING to tell him to shut up because he constantly appears of his own accord can be annoying?

You don't see how being constantly insulted by him if you don't perfectly align with his views can be annoying?

You don't see how him constantly stroking his own ego if you do perfectly align with his views can be annoying?

No I don't, because that's how he was described by Mike pondsmith. CDPR just stayed true to the source material. To me, it was CDPR showing the Johnny that was described in the TTRPG lore so I never found him annoying.
Also, he can say whatever he wants to say, I still do my own thing.
The very base of your issue seems be how Pondsmith has written the character. He is meant to be an egoistic dickhead. And that's what's fun about him, CDPR showed this perfectly.

You can have your first interactions (Such as the meeting with Takemura at Joe's Diner) where you cuss him out and state how much you hate him and don't want to see him at all... Then you do literally any side content and he appears and V is all chooms and happiness with him - Where again, you can't tell him to "Fuck off" like you did in the main story interaction, he sits there and you both act like you are BFFs and always have been.

Ok, I do agree with this but to fix that, it would require them to write so many versions of the same dialogues in many of the side quests, based on how much your relationship with Johnny has progressed. They did fix an annoying scenario like this though. They added new dialogue for when you trigger Human nature before going to Tom's diner. If they had done this for every other quest in the game it would've been perfect (but obviously a bit costly and it's not going to happen this late post-release)

 

[BellesOfBeauclair]

I like Johnny but I want Cyberpunk 2's story to be completely different

 

[Tarille]

No I don't, because that's how he was described by Mike pondsmith. CDPR just stayed true to the source material. To me, it was CDPR showing the Johnny that was described in the TTRPG lore so I never found him annoying.

So you literally cannot see how someone might be annoyed be an "Egotistical dickhead" character?

Like, sure, he's accurate to what he was in the TTRPG lore and he's actually well written. But his personality is one that some people can find annoying. That is literally who Johnny is, even his friends find him tiresome with how his personality is.

Being shoehorned into interacting with a character that is by design, a dickhead, will cause annoyance in people who would rather not interact with such a character.

Ok, I do agree with this but to fix that, it would require them to write so many versions of the same dialogues in many of the side quests, based on how much your relationship with Johnny has progressed. They did fix an annoying scenario like this though. They added new dialogue for when you trigger Human nature before going to Tom's diner. If they had done this for every other quest in the game it would've been perfect

Nah, it's simply impossible to make it work. Simply doing a "Pre-Tom's Diner" check doesn't absolve that.

Pre-Tom's diner, you will still be very anti-Johnny. Post-Tom's Diner, you will also be fairly anti-Johnny.

They would have to make new dialogue for every possible state that V and Johnny's relationship could be. Meaning basically after every main story mission, and would have to account for options you took in all prior interactions.

This is by and large the biggest problem with this type of literary device. As the character interactions are so all encompassing... To maintain continuity requires impossible levels of additional writing.

Which is one of the main reasons why such a literary device is dumb.

Really, the best they could have done was use the pills Misty gives at the start of Act 2. Blue Pill stops Johnny showing up (Outside the plot points where V starts coughing up blood due to the Relic affecting them hard), red pill makes Johnny show up and he can be all buddy buddy because you're not likely to explicitly make him show up just to tell him to fuck off.

 

[DonLuzolvaz]

Nah, it's simply impossible to make it work. Simply doing a "Pre-Tom's Diner" check doesn't absolve that.

I'm not talking about just one check, I said "Multiple" versions of the same dialogue, meaning multiple checks to see how far has your relationship with Johnny progressed.

So you literally cannot see how someone might be annoyed be an "Egotistical dickhead" character?

As I said, I don't think of it as him annoying me, more like he's annoying the in-game characters and I just laugh it off, it's not a big deal.

 

[Tarille]

I'm not talking about just one check, I said "Multiple" versions of the same dialogue, meaning multiple checks to see how far has your relationship with Johnny progressed.

Except you literally said:

They added new dialogue for when you trigger Human nature before going to Tom's diner. If they had done this for every other quest in the game it would've been perfect

You highlight they added one singular check and stated that if they'd done that for every quest it would have been perfect.

Ergo, you said that including this one singular check to all quests would have been the problem solved.

As I said, I don't think of it as him annoying me, more like he's annoying the in-game characters and I just laugh it off, it's not a big deal.

Yes, but I never said anything about YOU.

I said, that people (Who obviously are not you as you have no problem with Johnny) CAN have issues with the character.

Is it so hard to grasp the concept that other people exist with different views to your own? That just because you have ways to mitigate the dickishness of Johnny's character doesn't mean that other people have the same reactions to facing such a character?

Like, just think for a second... What if someone plays Cyberpunk 2077 and has never even heard of the TTRPG let alone played it enough to be familiar with Johnny as a character. Thus they would have no reason to "Appreciate the way he is portrayed". To them, he's just some random dickhead who's yapping at them all of a sudden.

How might they react to Johnny's character?

 

[DonLuzolvaz]

Except you literally said:

You highlight they added one singular check and stated that if they'd done that for every quest it would have been perfect.

Ergo, you said that including this one singular check to all quests would have been the problem solved.

I just mentioned one example of how to deal with this issue... I said they fixed one particular situation that way. I never implied adding just one check would fix every single situation in the game.

Is it so hard to grasp the concept that other people exist with different views to your own?

No not at all, I really didn't mean to offend anyone.