I think Gwent is imbalanced. Devs need to listen more.

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I agree with OP I left Gwent more then a year ago as I found it extremely frustrating. I did download their mobile app as I hoped the finally did some job on the cards. But no. Skellige is still ridiculous and some bronze cards are way stronger then other... If an opponent beats you with difference of more then 60 points then the game is defo imbalanced...Not sure why there are even golden cards. They have no points if bronze cards are stronger then golden.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
That is a consequence of the power reduction from Gwent beta to Gwent Homecoming. Since the pts are reduced every point counts.

And lots of bronze engines provide 1pt per turn, so if left unanswered, a bronze can easily be 13+ points in a round... and when you have several of those, its impossible to win with a pointslam deck, you need a control deck or running a Yrden against a boost deck.
 
A perfectly balanced game where everyone is 100% equal is boring to play. Rock-paper-scissors is perfectly balanced, yet no one seriously plays it.
Meanwhile league of legends, where balancing is nearly impossible, is one of the most popular games in the world.

Umm sorry but this is too a simplistic view. Picking one game like LoL and another with literally 3 options to play is not very sound logic.

Almost all games are built to balance the dynamics.

It is opinion but I guarantee you that a balanced game brings more fun to more people than one thing/unit/or whatever object in a game.

Only very young kids want that one thing to win all the time.

Turn based games have an inherent imbalance to someone who starts first.

To give an example In chess the white has advantage. So in tournaments the players have even matches as both white and black to balance it. Here in Gwent they opted for a tactical card since going first has a disadvantage of last card.

It's not really the balance of game it's the balance of play. Control decks for example stop the other person from playing at all.

Doing the same thing over and over its what's boring not a balanced game.
 
Meanwhile league of legends, where balancing is nearly impossible, is one of the most popular games in the world.
And you know some key elements there? Banning OP-Champs and updating/Changing the game at a weekly basis.
You could implement it here as well. If CDRed would weekly change some cards, nobody would complaint about stale meta.
If you could ban , lets say 1 card per faction, less people would complain about same OP-cards again and again, because you could just ban them.
 
Does anyone know if CDPR actually use the "opportunity" to make statistics about which cards people select in Arena over others?
I know, it's Arena, but they could match certain cards up against each others, which equally could work in Arena.

What about other statistics? What does CDPR actually see from statistics, and what kind of statistics do they make? Can these statistics be tainted by "newbies" not using specific cards that are broadly auto-include? Or are these statistics tainted in some other way? Playing in pro-ranks or thereabouts I see ALOT of the same cards and ALOT of the same decks, but ok, it's my experience as a player, not statistically significant. But how can the statistics not verify that, I have also seen and heard from others they have the same experience! I don't know if the developers play their own game or not, they should! but... If they don't really see things from players perspectives and gather most information from statistics, does it create an accurate picture of the situation, really?

I think it would be interesting if CDPR did some actual player polls about cards/decks/leaders every season (ingame), that could create direct from players, based on players experiences, significant statistics that CDPR could use among their other statistics, short of playing their own game ALOT.

That's one paragraph without punctuation, deal with it, I'm European.

What I'm trying to say is that it would be interesting if CDPR did actual ingame polls somehow (in the deckbuilder) where people can mark cards and leaders in certain ways. Certain tags that CDPR could use in their statistics mix. Ofcourse, they would also need to collect the player information to see what perspective the player is seeing these things from.

Anyone know anything more about the statistics the developers deal with? I've peaked at certain claims on Reddit, but I don't know how credible these are..
 
I will preface and say that I'm sure that the dev team for Gwent are amazing people and employees so this is not a personal attack of any sort...this is, however, critique of what I consider a laughably lousy job at balancing the game.

Why do I consider Gwent's balance so bad? Because the game is dominated by very specific cards.

  1. Defender units are hilariously imbalanced, some more than others. For example, the NG Defender is so bloody imbalanced that I'm honestly wondering if the devs even know what they're doing. It's a 7 point, 4 armor uni, in effect...with Defender's status...
  2. There are too many ways to re-use Gold Cards which is creating balance issues everywhere and absurdly broken combos for only a few select decks. Look, HC took away the absurdly imba point swings and while some people liked it while others disliked it, ultimately it was a consistent approach for the most part. Now we're nearly full circle, back to these gigantic, imba point swing plays because you, the devs, power crept the living hell out of the game but you only did it with specific combos that re-use Gold cards. From Bribery spam to Syanna+Vernon to Cailith (sp?) spaming cards for Monster faction, etc...
  3. Some bronze engines are oppressive as hell and put to shame some gold engines...NR comes to mind with Tridam Infantry as they not only remove your points but boost their own at the same time (which is EXACTLY the kind of oppressive engine I'm refrencing)
  4. Too much focus on control. You've created way, way, waaaaaay too many control cards, be it special cards, artifacts or units. Control is good and healthy but in some cases like NG, you've given them way too much of it - and even if it isn't causing balance issues, it's causing meta stagnation and frustration issues. I mean look at all the topics here about how people generally hate playing NG and will auto quit vs them...it's because NG are themed on pissing your opponent off, which is a, pardon my french, fucking idiotic design choice. If you frustrate your players enough, they will leave for a different game...which brings me to...
  5. I don't believe you're considering frustration during design and balance tasks. A great example of this is the seize mechanic. In real life, the equivalent is called theft and theft in every country and culture I am aware of, is considered bad, inspires negative emotions and can result in criminal charges being laid. This is because theft is unfair and frustrating yet you've expanded on your Seize mechanic, even going as far as to give NG a leader ability that seizes on demand, which, again...pardon the french, is fucking horse shit.

I love that the team is passionate about Gwent and generally I love their design and art work....especially the art work...but in terms of a TCG or CCG I think the dev team needs to adapt a little faster by learning from the mistakes of others and more importantly, listening to the people who play their game.

For example, if NG is a faction people are auto quitting to, that's an indicator of either a balance or a design issue that needs to be remedied.

So to give a brief summary, I think the Gwent team needs to step up their game by

  • Considering frustration when balancing and designing the game to a more significant degree than they are currently doing.
  • Putting a stop to re-using Gold cards or re-using Gold card abilities.
  • Reigning in the power of Defender cards.
  • Address all engines that both gain points while removing the opponent's points in the same turn. Especially if it's a bronze engine.
  • Provide more versatile options to keep units alive through the mass amounts of control you've added. This includes NG spaming locks, even though lock status generally doesn't kill a unit.
I'll be honest, and to the point, I think ever since Gwent got out of beta has become a pile of shite, and the old design with way better along with the gameplay. I miss the gold and silver cards and the three rows of playing along with the massive damage I could do with one card, and what the hell happened to the weather effects!? I spend good money on this game now. Technically I want my money back, but they won't give it to me. And after the cyberpunk 2077 debacle, I'm starting to lose faith in CDPR. Don't get me wrong, the developers are great, but the company is starting to go down the toilet.
 
You guys ever think these threads where people just rant about the state of the game don't actually do anything?
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
You guys ever think these threads where people just rant about the state of the game don't actually do anything?

If you mean that they do not reach the devs, the ones which they're aimed at, as constructive criticism that they prefer to disregard... Yes, you could say they 'dont do anything'.

But they're also a way to express the players frustrations with the game, to vent out their anger, maybe to even fuel the hopes of improvement in the future for the more optimistic. That is something.
 
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Reactions: rrc
They are not useless. I've seen Slama writing back in a couple of posts, both here and on Reddit. But even without getting an actual answer I do think that the dev team actually reads them.
I must say that here I can find find less "ranting for the sake of ranting" and more ideas and suggestions on how to improve the game.
 

Guest 4375874

Guest
They are not useless. I've seen Slama writing back in a couple of posts, both here and on Reddit. But even without getting an actual answer I do think that the dev team actually reads them.
I must say that here I can find find less "ranting for the sake of ranting" and more ideas and suggestions on how to improve the game.
I would agree except, if nothing is done then it does kind of mean it's useless. A response without any meaningful action to address the issues amounts to the same thing
 
I think ever since Gwent got out of beta has become a pile of shite
This is the sort of constructive criticism devs should listen to?
There is a significant difference between a criticism (constructive) and rant. I for one love having a constructive discussion about making the game better. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with it.
This is just pure rant, the worse sort.
 

Guest 4375874

Guest
This is the sort of constructive criticism devs should listen to?
There is a significant difference between a criticism (constructive) and rant. I for one love having a constructive discussion about making the game better. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with it.
This is just pure rant, the worse sort.
How long have you been having those "constructive discussions"? That's the point, not that some ppl don't rant because some do. The question he asked was whether it's useless and if you're having the same "discussion" now that you were having a year or two ago then the answer is yes. Rants in most cases happen over time after many "constructive discussions" and inaction by the devs.
 
Not really well made points by OP. I think he is missing the crucial bit of the backstory. Gwent is based upon the Witcher Books lore and whatever the games contributed on top. So if you put that in perspective functions start making more sense on how they act. The only thing I would like to add on that is that cards from the same stories or timelines should synergise better.
Annoying and oppresive NG. Hiding and moving ST. Strong and fighting SK. Military NR. Monsters are monsters. Syndicate is underworld.

They are not random names and random numbers. And the characters on the cards are very very close on what they were on the lore. Thats make Gwent special. Call it an RPG card game.

I mean imbalances are annoying, sometimes they are fixed only to find another thing is broken but thats the way it is. I personally dont agree on many of your points. Defenders for example the problem now is they are way too easy to go by so basically they are just a 7 point slam in most cases so not much defending happening there. I mean come on. An old pellar can make way to go through a knight. I mean he was hiding from some drowners and witch hunters in the game.

Also something else I find a bit weird and no offense to the OP, ridiculous, focusing on seize and calling it theft and generating bad role modelling for the real world? I mean you kill, destroy, banish and poison other human or nonhuman beings. What about animal cruelty? Why would you attack Roach or Knickers? Or even the wild beast s of SK.

I believe it was a frustration posting which is ok. Everyone has a few under their belts. lets move on.
 

Guest 4416545

Guest
Devs read us for sure, i got no doubt, Who Wont like to see how peopel value their work? Yet ofcourse they Wont appear here and debate with us just so peopel mad at them can release all frustation.

And i think they dont appear neither cause some of the criticism got not real fundamental more than "i just lose to this, not my fault at all and im just gonna rage on forum"

Like not so far ago shieldwall was the most op thing ever existed, then scenarios, then whatever, what i wanna mean its sometimes they do the correct thing by not doing the changes we ask for.
 
sometimes they do the correct thing by not doing the changes we ask for.
Agree. N if they did everything I asked for, there would be no faction/leader abilities, no useless 3d effects, no Viy, no cat witchers, no damien, no scenarios, no echos, no SK, no HC, no WotW, and weather would be cool again .. perfect for me, probably not so much for everyone else.
 
Agree. N if they did everything I asked for, there would be no faction/leader abilities, no useless 3d effects, no Viy, no cat witchers, no damien, no scenarios, no echos, no SK, no HC, no WotW, and weather would be cool again .. perfect for me, probably not so much for everyone else.
And this is exactly where we slip into the muddy waters of subjective preferences.
At the end of the day it is important for all of us to understand, that opinions and desired modifications regarding the game differs - by the extremes. Players literally shouting for opposing changes, where any step in one direction would enrage the other party.

What is really missing from Gwent at this point are the following in my opinion:

1. Proper proactive communication from CDPR
The current version is lazy at it's best. I'm an absolute supporter of the game, but the communication part is in a very bad state - next to non-existent. I really doubt it would be so much resources sensitive to have someone prepare and post a proper topic about any UPCOMING changes, patch notes, balancing, etc.

2. Clear yearly roadmap for the game
I cannot really come up with any excuse for the lack of this honestly. Other than having no real idea for the future of the game, which is a disheartening concept. Again, proper proactive communication.

3. Playtesting new content
Having no proper playtesting environment is an issue. I know it kills suspension, but the intorduction of a beta-realm test format for at least a few serious names would definitely help to identify major issues before go-live (looking at Viy for example)

4. Faster reaction at serious balancing flaws
Okay, this is a more sensitive issue, because the community (especially the part that frequents forums and reddit) tends to cry and tantrum for nearly everything that is useful, and as such, it is sometimes difficult to pinpoint real offenders. However, when we have a clear situation as Viper Witcher Mentors getting Adrenaline 3 (which was admitted by CDPR to be a mistake they didn't really inteded) I would expect an immediate reaction in the form of a hotfix. It is just not acceptable (and understandable - again, communication!) why these take weeks and sometimes months to get corrected/reverted.

5. Balancing old and unused cards
Now this is probably the topic I understand the least. I simply see no excuse for sitting on a massive pile of amazing card concepts, 75% of those clearly outdated and unplayable. At least every 6 months there should be a major polish on the card base, bringing old content cards to playable level. The latest patch we received was a step in the right direction, but I have to ask: why only these few cards? There are literally a hundred more waiting for the same treatment.
 
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And this is exactly where we slip into the muddy waters of subjective preferences.
At the end of the day it is important for all of us to understand, that opinions and desired modifications regarding the game differs - by the extremes. Players literally shouting for opposing changes, where any step in one direction would enrage the other party.

What is really missing from Gwent at this point are the following in my opinion:

1. Proper proactive communication from CDPR
The current version is lazy at it's best. I'm an absolute supporter of the game, but the communication part is in a very bad state - next to non-existent. I really doubt it would be so much resources sensitive to have someone prepare and post a proper topic about any UPCOMING changes, patch notes, balancing, etc.

2. Clear yearly roadmap for the game
I cannot really come up with any excuse for the lack of this honestly. Other than having no real idea for the future of the game, which is a disheartening concept. Again, proper proactive communication.

3. Playtesting new content
Having no proper playtesting environment is an issue. I know it kills suspension, but the intorduction of a beta-realm test format for at least a few serious names would definitely help to identify major issues before go-live (looking at Viy for example)

4. Faster reaction at serious balancing flaws
Okay, this is a more sensitive issue, because the community (especially the part that frequents forums and reddit) tends to cry and tantrum for nearly everything that is useful, and as such, it is sometimes difficult to pinpoint real offenders. However, when we have a clear situation as Viper Witcher Mentors getting Adrenaline 3 (which was admitted by CDPR to be a mistake they didn't really inteded) I would expect an immediate reaction in the form of a hotfix. It is just not acceptable (and understandable - again, communication!) why these take weeks and sometimes months to get corrected/reverted.

6. Balancing old and unused cards
Now this is probably the topic I understand the least. I simply see no excuse for sitting on a massive pile of amazing card concepts, 75% of those clearly outdated and unplayable. At least every 6 months there should be a major polish on the card base, bringing old content cards to playable level. The latest patch we received was a step in the right direction, but I have to ask: why only these few cards? There are literally a hundred more waiting for the same treatment.

What happened to point #5?

But seriously, these are all things that we have been saying on the forums for years now. I see you in here often calling anyone who is ranting a whiner and complainer, but once you've seen constructive posts like the one you just made go unheeded for years, you start to understand why there are so many ranters.

You either quit Gwent dissappointed, or stay long enough to see yourself become a ranter.
 
1. Proper proactive communication from CDPR
The current version is lazy at it's best. I'm an absolute supporter of the game, but the communication part is in a very bad state - next to non-existent. I really doubt it would be so much resources sensitive to have someone prepare and post a proper topic about any UPCOMING changes, patch notes, balancing, etc.
Not saying this is much but it's at least something.
IMG_20210218_183216.jpg


 
But seriously, these are all things that we have been saying on the forums for years now. I see you in here often calling anyone who is ranting a whiner and complainer, but once you've seen constructive posts like the one you just made go unheeded for years, you start to understand why there are so many ranters.
I get your point, but it really boils down to one's personality at the end of day.
I might be relatively new on these forums calling ranters ranters and complainers complainers, but I was spending my time in the forums of another CCG title in the past ~5 years. Trust me, I'm well accustomed to distinguish a criticism (be it constructive or negative) from a rant, especially if it comes from an otherwise important factor, that is player incompetence and lack of adaptation.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm all for any discussion about how to make a game better (be it Gwent for now). Venting aimlessly (especially if it is paired with a solid lack of understanding) is not my cup of tea. But then again, to each their own.

To address your other point, yes, I can get behind frustration that comes from dismissive behaviour from devs. It is always a sensitive subject, but if a real problem persists for years without being addressed, that is truly a reason for being upset.
Just to clarify, current Gwent being different from beta Gwent is not such a reason - that is personal taste.

Not saying this is much but it's at least something.
It is exactly as you said: something.
Something, but very far from the level of open and active communication this game would require to address player complaints and issues.
I believe the very same goes for everything that is communication related to Gwent. A lot more communication about events (more events to start with), advertising, bringing the game to a new/larger audience. These might be invisible from my viewpoint, but I honestly doubt they are happening on the level they should.

All in all, unfortunately it feels very much the same story as with bugfixes/balance hotfixes/card revamping. For me it really feels like there are no actual active devs allocated for this game/project, other than in the few months where a new expansion is developed. The rest of the year feels like "budget/maintenance mode" with the mandatory few lines of PR on Reddit and these forums, and the occasional talk with a few prominent faces.
These are all good, but about 20% of what would be needed.
 
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