I think Panam should've been bisexual (romance)

[Obsidian_Dragoon]

I played a pure female V for my first run through. I went out of my way to flirt with Panam only for the romance options to just kinda of disappear. I really thought Panam would've been a possible romance option for me and I was really disappointed that it wasn't actually possible despite the hints and no outright refusal (from Panam).

Heck, even if you go flirty from the starting line, she clearly warms up to you with her own flirtations since she has her own issues that need sorting out before she's ready.

I know I could go with Judy, but she's just not quite my type. A good friend to have, no doubt. Just not my type for romance.

EDIT:
Since a few people seem to not be reading the thread, I'm going to quote myself here.

Oh, I'm fine with orientation locks for characters. That wasn't my issue. It just felt like I was strung along that Panam might be bisexual and that wasn't the case.

Judy being pure lesbian? Fine with me.
River being entirely hetero? Go for it.
Kerry being the pansexual who will sleep with anyone who can please him? He's a rocker, let him rock with whatever gets his rocks off.

Regardless of how accurate the above are, the point is that orientation can play into the design of a character. And, for the record, none of them have the orientation made as the focus for their existence which is GOOD design. I commend CDPR for doing it right.

I simply felt strung along by Panam, based on the choices I made and never encountered a clear refusal. That's why I felt Panam was bisexual even if she was not designed or intended to be.

 

[Trinixy]

Sorry to hear you didn't find your options satisfying as female V. The sexual preferences aren't going away but am sure future will introduce more options and they will hopefully help find you someone you will love to romance.
Preferences are a defining factor in how the character is envisioned and built in background story and obviously in romance.

They can reject or accept you, they are given agency since they are given this defining factor and all we can really do is accept and respect it. Trying to retcon it by having it be different would ultimately ruin the character and the connection people built to them up until that point. It would reflect poorly on CDPR and the way they treat their own creation as mailable to any opinions of the crowd. It would set a standard of quality that would forever promote a set of poorly defined characters with motivations that would often feel unrelatable. As with anything romances leave impact on us because they try capture that bit of realism and immersion like life long truths that we will be rejected and accepted for various reasons that we can't influence. Hoping for that not to be the case would be asking to be robbed of this simple truth of human condition. Reduce quality by forcing the hands of writers to write less diverse personalities and traits going forward.

Hope you will give male V a try on your next run, you will end up romancing Panam and will enjoy every bit of it am sure!

 

[Obsidian_Dragoon]

Sorry to hear you didn't find your options satisfying as female V. The sexual preferences aren't going away but am sure future will introduce more options and they will hopefully help find you someone you will love to romance.
Preferences are a defining factor in how the character is envisioned and built in background story and obviously in romance.

They can reject or accept you, they are given agency since they are given this defining factor and all we can really do is accept and respect it. Trying to retcon it by having it be different would ultimately ruin the character and the connection people built to them up until that point. It would reflect poorly on CDPR and the way they treat their own creation as mailable to any opinions of the crowd. It would set a standard of quality that would forever promote a set of poorly defined characters with motivations that would often feel unrelatable. As with anything romances leave impact on us because they try capture that bit of realism and immersion like life long truths that we will be rejected and accepted for various reasons that we can't influence. Hoping for that not to be the case would be asking to be robbed of this simple truth of human condition. Reduce quality by forcing the hands of writers to write less diverse personalities and traits going forward.

Hope you will give male V a try on your next run, you will end up romancing Panam and will enjoy every bit of it am sure!

Well, that's sort of my problem. Panam didn't really reject me. Had I seen a clear rejection and not a disappearance of flirty/romance options, I wouldn't be making this thread.

Does that make sense?

 

[WildOrchid]

She does reject you though and then you bring up the "so.. friends?" line. Since then romance lines stopped appearing (makes sense). Dunno, she's perfectly fine as straight and she's my ride or die best friend and I really love that.

 

[dreambled]

She does reject you though and then you bring up the "so.. friends?" line. Since then romance lines stopped appearing (makes sense). Dunno, she's perfectly fine as straight and she's my ride or die best friend and I really love that.

I thought that line only comes up if you touch her thigh.

I don't think that counts since she has the same response for male and female V. If the other, more tame flirt option is used, it is far more subtle.

 

[WildOrchid]

I thought that line only comes up if you touch her thigh.

I don't think that counts since she has the same response for male and female V. If the other, more tame flirt option is used, it is far more subtle.

Yep, thats the part. But since then, no lines appear anymore to flirt with her further. Which for female V is outright rejection but for male is like "hm... maybe. But not now."

 

[dreambled]

Yep, thats the part. But since then, no lines appear anymore to flirt with her further. Which for female V is outright rejection but for male is like "hm... maybe. But not now."

So that's what the OP is talking about right? I can understand the frustration. At least with River, male V has the option to give it a go. They should have provided a flirt option in the next mission with Panam where you're talking in the tower that female V could use to have Panam reject female V. Hell, it could be similar to Judy's where Panam says 'sorry, I'm not into it.'

 

[headache247]

yeah i was bummed about that. but it is a good romanced for male v

 

[Trinixy]

Well, that's sort of my problem. Panam didn't really reject me. Had I seen a clear rejection and not a disappearance of flirty/romance options, I wouldn't be making this thread.

Does that make sense?

If am not mistaken, after the first mission you end up having a drink with her. You have the option to take the conversation towards hoping you could share one room and one bed. She sees sort of trough you and gives you substile hints that she isn't into it. Now lets say you don't know after that that she is straight, you might think well maybe she just isn't yet sold on me. After all why would the game offer me these flirtatious lines if they can't lead anywhere? And you wouldn't be blamed to think such. And an outright, Am straight so no would be a poor response because it would give the character a very strict and cold rejecting nature. And Panam will not do such, she will be substile and not seek to hurt V outright that way, kind of how many compassionate adults would handle such an advance ideally.

However try look at it from the point of view of a developer, they know you would want to flirt and ask and see what happens, they count on your curiosity regardless even if they know it can only lead to friendship. This curiosity is part of immersion they need from you. So they will allow it for sake of you getting to meet the character in a way you wish, and offer you dialogue that would in that moment align with what you would personally wanna ask. Even if it leads to you being disappointed in the end. Disappointments are unfortunately parts of many relationships in life. You are treated to a different set of her responses and reactions being as you are female V, and the developer will see that as giving the character a diverse personality.

We discussed these things in the forum and I feel most of the disappointment comes ultimately from the friendship not having been more expanded upon after the last side quest. There would be less of a sting tru the heart if the friendship was more flashed out and more a thing on its own.

 

[WildOrchid]

So that's what the OP is talking about right? I can understand the frustration. At least with River, male V has the option to give it a go. They should have provided a flirt option in the next mission with Panam where you're talking in the tower that female V could use to have Panam reject female V. Hell, it could be similar to Judy's where Panam says 'sorry, I'm not into it.'

Yeah some LI's don't talk about that sort of "sorry, not really into you" like Judy does. With Panam you get a simple rejection which apparently it's the same for male V but, it stops there. No "not into you" lines. The cabin part actually would be a nice moment to tell female V she's not her type.

Edit, shit forgot you can "flirt" with her the first time you go into the motel to get drinks. Lol i didn't even pick up that line. If i recall it's about 'sharing one room".

 

[enrique_alo]

Well, that's sort of my problem. Panam didn't really reject me. Had I seen a clear rejection and not a disappearance of flirty/romance options, I wouldn't be making this thread.

Does that make sense?

I know what you mean. She was giving mixed signals from the beginning, flirting bit here and there and she never said no, just in the right moment you didn't get the dialogue line Male V did. Quite odd. With Judy it was quite clear that she prefer girls.

 

[ChrisFlamingo]

I liked her a lot and felt the vibe as a nomad. Too bad, let’s hope for the future

 

[Obsidian_Dragoon]

If am not mistaken, after the first mission you end up having a drink with her. You have the option to take the conversation towards hoping you could share one room and one bed. She sees sort of trough you and gives you substile hints that she isn't into it. Now lets say you don't know after that that she is straight, you might think well maybe she just isn't yet sold on me. After all why would the game offer me these flirtatious lines if they can't lead anywhere? And you wouldn't be blamed to think such. And an outright, Am straight so no would be a poor response because it would give the character a very strict and cold rejecting nature. And Panam will not do such, she will be substile and not seek to hurt V outright that way, kind of how many compassionate adults would handle such an advance ideally.

However try look at it from the point of view of a developer, they know you would want to flirt and ask and see what happens, they count on your curiosity regardless even if they know it can only lead to friendship. This curiosity is part of immersion they need from you. So they will allow it for sake of you getting to meet the character in a way you wish, and offer you dialogue that would in that moment align with what you would personally wanna ask. Even if it leads to you being disappointed in the end. Disappointments are unfortunately parts of many relationships in life. You are treated to a different set of her responses and reactions being as you are female V, and the developer will see that as giving the character a diverse personality.

We discussed these things in the forum and I feel most of the disappointment comes ultimately from the friendship not having been more expanded upon after the last side quest. There would be less of a sting tru the heart if the friendship was more flashed out and more a thing on its own.

There's a mission after that in her quest line where she'll mention "it'll be like sharing a bed" as an analogy. Since I still hadn't seen a clear rejection and that sounds more like Panam is warming up to the idea, I figured it was still on the table.

Not saying I remember everything clearly. Just not anything that made the line much more clear as to where the end was.

It's entirely possible I missed it, rather than it simply never appearing as a result of certain dialogue choices that could have put it on the back burned.

 

[amikae]

There's a mission after that in her quest line where she'll mention "it'll be like sharing a bed" as an analogy. Since I still hadn't seen a clear rejection and that sounds more like Panam is warming up to the idea, I figured it was still on the table.

Not saying I remember everything clearly. Just not anything that made the line much more clear as to where the end was.

It's entirely possible I missed it, rather than it simply never appearing as a result of certain dialogue choices that could have put it on the back burned.

Panam loves V like family regardless of gender. Even as male V you don't necessarily have to romance her as she's always going to be close to you no matter what. I honestly think Panam and V are great the way they are, they don't need to be in a romantic relationship, they are best friends willing to do anything for each other. It's a beautiful relationship!

 

[WildOrchid]

Panam loves V like family regardless of gender. Even as male V you don't necessarily have to romance her as she's always going to be close to you no matter what. I honestly think Panam and V are great the way they are, they don't need to be in a romantic relationship, they are best friends willing to do anything for each other. It's a beautiful relationship!

I've literally never seen such a good friendship like Panam shares with V (in my case female V). I just love their dynamic so much that i'd follow her anywhere. And the fact that she invited me into her family and considers me a member of her family... how can i say no to this?????

 

[amikae]

I've literally never seen such a good friendship like Panam shares with V (in my case female V). I just love their dynamic so much that i'd follow her anywhere. And the fact that she invited me into her family and considers me a member of her family... how can i say no to this?????

In one of the endings -

Spoiler: ENDINGS SPOILER

the one where V suicides or chooses to attack Arasaka tower and dies Panam sends you an incredibly emotional call during the end credits. I was absolutely gutted!

I have never experienced such an impactful story telling in a game before.

 

[WildOrchid]

In one of the endings -

Spoiler: ENDINGS SPOILER

the one where V suicides or chooses to attack Arasaka tower and dies Panam sends you an incredibly emotional call during the end credits. I was absolutely gutted!

I have never experienced such an impactful story telling in a game before.

Panam and Judy's have got to be the most emotional for me (Judy's mostly gutted me tbh)

 

[neuronist]

both should have been. agree

 

[Th3L0n3W0lf]

I mean isn't she technically, I use that loosely, already? You can romance her with a female voice and then you're refered to and she and her etc? So technically....... or am i wrong?

 

[hulkman2456]

I know what you mean. She was giving mixed signals from the beginning, flirting bit here and there and she never said no, just in the right moment you didn't get the dialogue line Male V did. Quite odd. With Judy it was quite clear that she prefer girls.

It's the lack of lines to flat out say no. You have the option to reject her as female V. But Panam is missing proper animations and lines for rejections. You can even drink to boobs. Panam puts her legs on you. Which is for Male V. It only works right if you reject from that point. If you use the other lines. It's like derp, didn't set this section up right.