I think people generally don't understand what an achievement this game is

[cerberusdest]

Without blindly condoning every decision by CDPR (obviously there are always a mixture of right and wrong decisions made), I think a lot of the people who are outweighing the pros of the game by the cons are really missing the picture in terms of what the game means for the future of gaming in general.

As a fan of the cyberpunk genre and scifi in general, I view the cyberpunk sandbox rpg as the holy grail of gaming for a few reasons:

1. By the definition of the genre it means embracing radical freedom within the sandbox, both physically (due to cybernetic body enhancements and vehicles) but also world and character interaction wise, the idea is that you can manipulate the world and people with almost no restrictions
2. It's not just an open-world sandbox but needs a proper RPG dna and developing a deep character is a core part of the experience of surviving in this post-government chaotic world
3. You can't abstract away the gameplay or combat, it needs to be first person, moving has to feel good, shooting and melee has to feel good to get full immersion. In this, the game also has to play like a fantastic action game.

There are many games that try to specialize in one or two of these, but no one has even dreamed of unifying all three into one. In parts because it probably wasn't even feasible until recent years, but also because, I suspect, it's just that much of a pain in the ass to get all three aspects to coexist perfectly.

In my eyes, Cyberpunk pretty much gets all 3 things at least partially right, and successfully unified them into one game. The major thing I can see improving is 1), i.e. things to do and interact with in the sandbox, while already offering a good variety, there is so much potential for more. And probably with respect to NPC AI, but NPC AI is probably the hardest challenge of them all, so I expect that'll come with time.

I personally would have liked to see the game released with one additional year to iron out the bugs, but honestly, in my view, the bugs are negligible in the grand scheme of things. I think when we look back in some years, we'll see that this game moved the industry forward by showing that what people thought were limits weren't really limits . Given time, and hopefully with expansions and even sequels building on the fantastic sandbox they've created here, I think this game will become the benchmark by which future open-world games will be judged.

To me, this game has cemented CDPR's position as the most important, innovative developer since pre-Dota Valve. Please never change - We will support you all the way.

 

[BabalKabak]

Sorry but I disagree with 99% of this comment.

I don't wanna explain, but if needed I may have questions before engaging in debates :

- Do you know that they were other games before CP77 that held the action-RPG genre just as much if not better than this ?
- Can you please give example of how you perceive the sandbox element in this game ? Just one/two examples I'm curious.
- Proper RPG DNA : same. What makes you think this can be considered as an RPG ? Are there meaningful choices that change your story ? Where ?

 

[tavellone]

Yes it is a serious achievement to spend so much time and effort on a worldspace whilst simultaneously putting so little effort in filling that worldspace with anything.

 

[prime853]

Im with Babal. Sorry mate but this isnt the game we were promised and saw promoted BY CDPR as the next big RPG.

And ultimately its not just about the bugs mate, its about the lack of actual Role playing, content, immersion and overall interactivity with the city.

Cyberpunk 2077 hasn't really done anything different and ground-breaking that other games haven't done before it, some being quite old i might add.
Tavellone nailed it saying that the vast City scape is probably the only truly, TRULY impressive thing within the game, to the point that its almost somewhat had me playing for a few extra hours past what i would some nights, aside from that ... not much more

 

[Gillian_Seed]

There are certainly aspects of the game which are worthy of being lauded as top notch, most especially in my opinion the construction of Night City. It's empty, heartless, souless and misleading nature is an entirely different story however. The foundation for something great is there but the game over all is at the same time bare bones and skin deep.

 

[OrdoAbChao]

As the game logan says, looks are everything.

Game looks really awesome, but is so empty.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

- Proper RPG DNA : same. What makes you think this can be considered as an RPG ?

Good question.

Are there meaningful choices that change your story ? Where ?

Or a varied set of meaningful RPG mechanics?

Post automatically merged: Dec 14, 2020

I think a lot of the people who are outweighing the pros of the game by the cons are really missing the picture in terms of what the game means for the future of gaming in general.

So far the meaning seems to be "don't do it like this".

You can't abstract away the gameplay or combat, it needs to be first person, moving has to feel good, shooting and melee has to feel good to get full immersion. In this, the game also has to play like a fantastic action game.

But you absolutely can abstract anything the character does, if you do not, you are in trouble with the RPG mechanisms. And it doesn't need to first person, and it doesn't need to be third, either. The perspective is ultimately of little consequence, if the game works right.

And an "excellent action game" it needs not be. The action - what ever form it might take, realtime shooting, turnbased combat, phase based combat, or other activities that imply the character is making fast paced and probably violent movement - should optimally be "excellent" of course, but within the confines of the genre and design. And if there is to be that proper "RPG DNA", it already goes counter to the "excellent action game" ideal.

 

[DarkTl]

The only revolutionary thing I noticed is the giant futuristic city itself, ie buildings, roads, etc. I don't recall any other game having a city like this. So kudos to the developers who modeled the city.

That's it. Any other thing was done better in some another game.

 

[prime853]

The only revolutionary thing I noticed is the giant futuristic city itself, ie buildings, roads, etc. I don't recall any other game having a city like this. So kudos to the developers who modeled the city.

That's it. Any other thing was done better in some another game.

Thats it mate. that is literally, it.

everything else is no different to what we've been sold before.

 

[misterfyxit]

I can't think of a single gameplay mechanic that cyberpunk explores or implements better than other games. It's also not a combination of things we haven't seen before. Also, a lot of material that was used as hype material is simply missing from the game. This is the biggest problem, the misrepresentation of the game.

 

[Ducuk]

Bro in this game's open world only thing you can do is killing people and you say its "sandbox" and have "rpg" elements, are we really playing on the same city?
Only thing Cyberpunk doing great is having a really beatiful "breath taking" city but thats just visuals, you can't do anything in it like a GTA game, which is not a rpg at all.

 

[Bloodartist]

The game world is unique and hasn't been done to this extent before, but that is honestly the only unique thing CP2077 has going for it. Night City.

Everything else I can say that I've seen before. Mostly in better quality.

Now I only hope that CDPR understand whats what and continues to refine and expand the game the way it deserves, and not just throw the potential that Night City has, into trash.

ps. But don't underestimate the respect I have for CDPR to get this whole thing done with the chaotic and wasteful management that they have.

 

[prime853]

I can't think of a single gameplay mechanic that cyberpunk explores or implements better than other games. It's also not a combination of things we haven't seen before. Also, a lot of material that was used as hype material is simply missing from the game. This is the biggest problem, the misrepresentation of the game.

Marketing team really earned their bonus this year.


In fact, so did Devs for all their hard work, Management however... . the amount of back peddling they apparently did during development is atrocious and has really shown how much time was wasted on things that got thrown out/abandoned.
EDIT: my post was edited for rudeness. fair enough ill wear that.

Post automatically merged: Dec 14, 2020

The game world is unique and hasn't been done to this extent before, but that is honestly the only unique thing CP2077 has going for it. Night City.

Everything else I can say that I've seen before. Mostly in better quality.

Now I only hope that CDPR understand whats what and continues to refine and expand the game the way it deserves, and not just throw the potential that Night City has, into trash.

God here's hoping man, ALL i want is for CDPR to see some of these Forum and Reddit threads that have gained traction and see for the love of god that the bugs aren't the only issue. so much is missing from this game. i just NEED them to see and hear that.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

So far the meaning seems to be "don't do it like this".

 

[Metropolice]

I am starting to assume or believe that in the ultimate end, management might possibly be at fault. Unintentional or not - not like someone consciously decides to do their worst, I mean, but in hindsight it's easy or easier to assess perhaps.

I got the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that Cyberpunk might have suffered from a lack of initial decisiveness where the project or game should go. This cost valuable time that could've been used implementing and fine-tuning what was scrapped and is missing. You all know examples I don't need to repeat here.

If this was one of the major factors, then I hope that this will be a "lesson learnt" and that the next game will have clear focus from the start, to allow sufficient time to implement and fine-tune everything that is planned, so deliver a "round experience" through and through.

You can already see the potential in many things that could truly shine, given more time and refinement.

 

[feckyer1ife]

This must be your first rpg,because this took the lead from Watch Dogs Legions as worst game for 2020 for me.

 

[Bloodartist]

I got the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that Cyberpunk might have suffered from a lack of initial decisiveness where the project or game should go. This cost valuable time that could've been used implementing and fine-tuning what was scrapped and is missing. You all know examples I don't need to repeat here.

From what I've heard (hearsay), was that they had to redo things from scratch several times, cause their developers just left because they couldn't stand the working conditions and the amount of crunch. Some report said that 60% of their devs left after Witcher 3 was released. Also the salaries aren't great in the great scheme of things. They may be ok for those living in Poland, but not in comparison to their US counterparts for example.

I continue to be appalled by the amount of blind fanboyism CDPR gets.

At least they said the devs get the bonuses that used to be reliant on the games metacritic score...
Metacritic is of course subjective. To make the money devs get paid reliant on something like that is in my opinion irresponsible.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

I am starting to assume or believe that in the ultimate end, management might possibly be at fault. Unintentional or not - not like someone consciously decides to do their worst, I mean, but in hindsight it's easy or easier to assess perhaps.

I got the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that Cyberpunk might have suffered from a lack of initial decisiveness where the project or game should go. This cost valuable time that could've been used implementing and fine-tuning what was scrapped and is missing. You all know examples I don't need to repeat here.

If this was one of the major factors, then I hope that this will be a "lesson learnt" and that the next game will have clear focus from the start, to allow sufficient time to implement and fine-tune everything that is planned, so deliver a "round experience" through and through.

You can already see the potential in many things that could truly shine, given more time and refinement.

I think you're probably right and I want lessons to be learned here too but for me personally "the next game" will never exist until this one is fixed, improved and turned into the game that was advertised and sold to me.

 

[Guest 4406876]

I'd say it's safe to assume they spent maybe 8 years handcrating beautful assets (because they are, in all honestly this has the best handcrafted map I have ever seen for a CITY environment and cars etc etc) and now it's time to use these assets to make a game out of it. Oh yea they put a linear story in it full of "press F to pay respect" and motion capture that give you the same liberty as an hamster has in a cage.

If they keep the assets and use them with intelligence in the following years without drowning themselves in another project that will maybe come out unfinished when I'll be 60 years old, maybe they can have a chance to really make CP77 truly remarkable.
We'll see what path they'll pick. Because so far many lines of Johnny Silverhand really apply to this "game".

 

[Num1PlayaHater]

It has bugs but so does every open world RPG. I think the sandbox and the potential is there and it deserve high praises. I'm disappointed in some aspects, like driving is pretty bad, and you can get bumped out of crouch which can ruin stealth. but its probably gonna go down in my books as a top 10 game.