I think people generally don't understand what an achievement this game is

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I am starting to assume or believe that in the ultimate end, management might possibly be at fault. Unintentional or not - not like someone consciously decides to do their worst, I mean, but in hindsight it's easy or easier to assess perhaps.

I got the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that Cyberpunk might have suffered from a lack of initial decisiveness where the project or game should go. This cost valuable time that could've been used implementing and fine-tuning what was scrapped and is missing. You all know examples I don't need to repeat here.

If this was one of the major factors, then I hope that this will be a "lesson learnt" and that the next game will have clear focus from the start, to allow sufficient time to implement and fine-tune everything that is planned, so deliver a "round experience" through and through.

You can already see the potential in many things that could truly shine, given more time and refinement.
its been known for quite a while now that quite a big portion of the game was scraped at one point and started fresh back around 2016-2017 with a lot of other ideas being attempted and scrapped shortly after.

Its clear the "End product" didn't have as much time in development as people believe. it wasn't 8 years. Even saying 4 years from 2016 is being generous considering the stuff that was scrapped and started from scratch. id say maybe close to a full 3 years and ultimately not much longer than a lot of other AAA releases, and for a game of this size and ambition it simply wasn't enough time. as Nikola above said, basic assets and some story elements MAYBE were probably kept for the majority of the run, but a lot of core gameplay mechanics etc and whatever else was dropped. Hell they even flat out said they scrapped the Flat head bot and the Techie class

I do believe the Marketing and Dev teams did a truly impressive job and the blame goes to management.
 
I'd say it's safe to assume they spent maybe 8 years handcrating beautful assets (because they are, in all honestly this has the best handcrafted map I have ever seen for a CITY environment and cars etc etc) and now it's time to use these assets to make a game out of it. Oh yea they put a linear story in it full of "press F to pay respect" and motion capture that give you the same liberty as an hamster has in a cage.

If they keep the assets and use them with intelligence in the following years without drowning themselves in another project that will maybe come out unfinished when I'll be 60 years old, maybe they can have a chance to really make CP77 truly remarkable.
We'll see what path they'll pick. Because so far many lines of Jhonny Silverhands really apply to this "game".

Right on target, the nail has been hit on the head.
 

Guest 4406876

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It has bugs but so does every open world RPG. I think the sandbox and the potential is there and it deserve high praises. I'm disappointed in some aspects, like driving is pretty bad, and you can get bumped out of crouch which can ruin stealth. but its probably gonna go down in my books as a top 10 game.
Trust me the real problem with this game isn't the bugs or the performance, it's the emptiness and that bad gameplay that reeks from every corner, the fact that some bugs are actually system not implemented in the first place and people see them as bugs. Beside the fact that they should of NEVER said it was coming out on current gen console because uncapable of running such thing in a decent way, that's their fault, not those cheap consoles, if a customer on consoles, that you might say he's casual gamer, sees something coming out, he expects to be up to the standard of performance of said console and said games so far, so CP should of never be announced on those old consoles.
This just hurted the game and wasted potential taht could have been spent for the health of the game. This happens when you get greedy and you don't really know what your capabilities are.
 

Guest 4406876

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Nah. This wasn't up to decisiveness. Anyone that followed development closely (and also the departures, firings and hirings) Know that this was coming. A good handful of core developers/personalities within CDPR got either fired, or left, once Marketing and Corporate took over. The departure of this 'Original team' of developers that where responsible for making the Witcher games work where essentially gone at that point. The new hirees didn't know what the fuck they where doing, and turned the game into a spaghetti code monster in the process. Then, they gutted the game of various implemented features because their Spaghetti Code monster refused to run properly otherwise.

Basically, absolutely everything about this fiasco boils down to the age old problem of Capitalism. If greedy Corporate Cunts get to call shots it's over, quality goes out the window, and you're just a walking wallet to be exploited.

Which is the glorious Irony in this. Cyberpunk, a game known to criticize the ever expanding Corporate corruption and malpractices that fuck over it's customers, was created by a company corrupted by corporate, in order to fuck over it's customers. (Atleast on the PS3/Xbox).

The amount of sheer cognitive dissonance these Suit wearing Fucks are in must be off the charts. I'm starting to think that Intelligence is negatively correlated to the amount of money you want to make.
This is exactly why i said that many lines of Johnny Silverhand apply to this , again with quotes, "game".
 
Nah. This wasn't up to decisiveness. Anyone that followed development closely (and also the departures, firings and hirings) Know that this was coming. A good handful of core developers/personalities within CDPR got either fired, or left, once Marketing and Corporate took over. The departure of this 'Original team' of developers that where responsible for making the Witcher games work where essentially gone at that point. The new hirees didn't know what the fuck they where doing, and turned the game into a spaghetti code monster in the process. Then, they gutted the game of various implemented features because their Spaghetti Code monster refused to run properly otherwise.

Basically, absolutely everything about this fiasco boils down to the age old problem of Capitalism. If greedy Corporate Cunts get to call shots it's over, quality goes out the window, and you're just a walking wallet to be exploited.

Which is the glorious Irony in this. Cyberpunk, a game known to criticize the ever expanding Corporate corruption and malpractices that fuck over it's customers, was created by a company corrupted by corporate, in order to fuck over it's customers. (Atleast on the PS3/Xbox).

The amount of sheer cognitive dissonance these Suit wearing Fucks are in must be off the charts. I'm starting to think that Intelligence is negatively correlated to the amount of money you want to make.
Interested in hearing more over the old timers leaving CDPR and the new employees coming in? sounds exactly like the kind of ingredients that result in this kind of mess.
 
Moderator: A couple posts deleted. As a general reminder to all, insulting individuals is not welcome on the Forums. Please, keep discussions respectful.
 
I'm just gonna state this simply.

Great visuals! Probably the best one in years.

Gameplay mechanics? Meh.
 
I'll respond to the replies as a whole:

To iterate, my point is that the game does a) RPG b) FPS c) open-world sandbox simultaneously, and you cannot take this as granted, as no other game does it, and it's not just as simple as implementing each thing one by one, it actually gives you entirely new problems to solve:

  • Bringing full-fledged RPG into a sandbox: NPCs need detailed attributes, levels, dialogue options. It adds a layer to the sandbox design.
  • Bringing stats based (RPG) combat into FPS: This is notoriously a difficult problem that no one has gotten quite right. There's a long history of FPS-RPGs (Fallout, Hellgate, Division, Destiny) getting one or the other right (good FPS bad stats/builds, bad FPS good stats/builds) and notoriously FPS-RPG devolves into bullet sponge enemies, but Cyberpunk has done a fantastic job of avoiding this problem mostly
  • Bringing standalone-FPS caliber movement and shooting into a sandbox: Usually sandbox games forego extremely finetuned movement and shooting, instead going for third-person view (Division, GTA, Watchdogs). Cyberpunk plays like a AAA release from an FPS studio.
  • Supporting quests in a sandbox: Usually sandbox games stay away from on-rails experiences because the detail of the world is too low to support quests. To see what I mean by this, take a look at how quests are done in the Division, GTA, and Watchdogs. They occur in generic areas, with minimal cutscenes and as little chance as possible for you to delve into or look at the world in detail, because upon close observation the sandbox world will reveal itself to have little to no detail. The world in Cyberpunk on the other has much more details environments everywhere, both inside and outside environments, that facilitate quests that don't feel generic. Also, it supports seamless cutscenes in first person.

Any way you look at it, Cyberpunk simply gets way closer to unifying RPG, FPS, and open-world sandbox into one game than any other game has tried to before, and you can see this when you directly compare it to any similar game:
  • VS GTA and Watchdogs: Itemization, loots, detailed environments and detailed quests, high quality FPS mechanics in first person
  • VS Fallout: Sandbox, ability to go off-rails, much sharper FPS mechanics and movement
  • VS The Division: Seamless open world, sandbox, detailed quests, storylines
  • VS Borderlands: Seamless open world, sandbox
The other way around (what these games have that Cyberpunk doesn't have), you'll see that Cyberpunk either has what those games offer, if not fully, then partially, with the potentially to easily add them into the framework they've established.
 
Bringing stats based (RPG) combat into FPS: This is notoriously a difficult problem that no one has gotten quite right. There's a long history of FPS-RPGs (Fallout, Hellgate, Division, Destiny) getting one or the other right (good FPS bad stats/builds, bad FPS good stats/builds) and notoriously FPS-RPG devolves into bullet sponge enemies, but Cyberpunk has done a fantastic job of avoiding this problem mostly
It's much easier and faster to kill all enemies with a starting katana than with most ranged weapons (excluding sniper rifle). That's not how perfect stats should work.


Bringing full-fledged RPG into a sandbox: NPCs need detailed attributes, levels, dialogue options. It adds a layer to the sandbox design.
It's not a full-fledged RPG. In fact, even CDPR removed all mentions of RPG from their advertisement material, at some point.


Bringing standalone-FPS caliber movement and shooting into a sandbox: Usually sandbox games forego extremely finetuned movement and shooting, instead going for third-person view (Division, GTA, Watchdogs). Cyberpunk plays like a AAA release from an FPS studio.
It's... an achievement I suppose. But considering how many people want 3rd person, not a positive one.


VS Fallout: Sandbox, ability to go off-rails, much sharper FPS mechanics and movement
No. While Fallout is not exaclty the best sandbox in the gaming history, neither is CP77. Its AI is way too primitive and bugged to provide a proper sandbox.
And ofc no one forces you to follow the main quest in fallout. You can easily go off-rails any time.

And don't get me started on movement. Dodging on double w tap is the worst character control I've seen in the last few years.


Supporting quests in a sandbox: Usually sandbox games stay away from on-rails experiences because the detail of the world is too low to support quests.
Since CP77 is not much of a sandbox due to little to none AI, this is hardly the case.
 
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There are certainly aspects of the game which are worthy of being lauded as top notch, most especially in my opinion the construction of Night City.
From what I have seen on Youtube, I disagree.

It's a very interesting Sci Fi city but not a particularly good Cyberpunk one. Not going to explain because I have done so about a hundred times already but in summary, doesn't have an oppressive atmosphere, not enough rain, too bright, and too clean.

Graphically, from a technical standpoint, it doesn't impress much either. Other games have sharper and cleaner graphics - e.g. Hitman 2, Spiderman on the Playstation - with a better frame rate.
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I do believe the Marketing and Dev teams did a truly impressive job and the blame goes to management.
Personally, I feel Marketing made a strategic error hyping the game so early.

I really don't understand why companies do this. Why not just wait until the game is nearly done and is in feature freeze before marketing it? This way you can present an accurate impression of the game and manage expectations properly.
 
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CDPR's position as the most important, innovative developer since pre-Dota Valve.

Boy, do I have great news for you. There's this game studio called 'ubisoft', they made a little game series called 'Far Cry', if you think cyberpunk is impressive, you're gonna need a change of pants if you try third, fourth or fifth installment!

CP77 fails as a sandbox unless you like playing shooting range with driving between locations. There is no interactivity. Outside of missions, the world is static and dead.

CP77 also fails as an RPG because it's more of an interactive linear novel with some parts that can be taken out of order. There is very little 'RP' in this 'G'. I am on my second character now, picking all the different dialogue options, and they change... literally nothing at all.

I will give it to you that the shooting and the combat are adequate, but not really impressive. It's your run of the mill looter shooter. Hacking is just 'magic'. You don't have incredible mobility or fantastical elements that can be introduced by cyber implants. I mean come on. The best you can get is double jump. That really is not that great.
 
Night City is a lot like Baker Street:

This city desert makes you feel so cold
It's got so many people, but it's got no soul
And it's taken you so long
To find out you were wrong
When you thought it held everything
 

Guest 4419821

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Well designed and interesting city, but personally everything else needs work, driving sucks, gunplay is boring.
The city is just filled with npc's wondering around doing nothing, not helped by the duplicates on every street corner.
There is some good parts but it just needs more to make the city feel more alive, no amount of neon lights will do that.

If you part with the main quest and go off exploring, you realise the city is quite lifeless, a prime example is one of the early main quests in the city with Jackie, travelling to a particular area is filled with npcs doing different things, but stray away on your own and its a different story altogether.

Its padded out with way too many vending machines, whats that all about.

There needs to be a few more things to do, bit like Gwent in witcher 3, and more npc's need to be doing different things as they wonder around, they all look like they have no destination, lol

I'm disappointed, but I do have hope the it will be improved over time, the base is there, it just needs filling.
 
I'm disappointed, but I do have hope the it will be improved over time, the base is there, it just needs filling.

I agree with this sentiment somewhat, but I think building that base was the hard task, the filling is the easy part and can be done by patch/dlc/expansion/sequels.

My biggest concern is that the negative reaction will send the message to CDPR that:
  • Let's never try something this ambitious again for this long because the fans will hate it
When with a slightly different wording, the message can be
  • The fans love and appreciate the base we've built, our big gamble was worth it, now let's fill the world with interesting stuff
 
My biggest concern is that the negative reaction will send the message to CDPR that:
  • Let's never try something this ambitious again for this long because the fans will hate it
When with a slightly different wording, the message can be
  • The fans love and appreciate the base we've built, our big gamble was worth it, now let's fill the world with interesting stuff

There's very little ambitious about current CP77 though. I keep comparing it to far cry because it literally is just far cry with a cyberpunk backdrop and a dialogue system. What they wanted to make was ambitious. What they made is... Honestly kind of mediocre by 2020 standards, but I remain hopeful that they'll do their best to fix it.

You're right -- the base is there. What's there is good. I would be bold enough to say that most of us making negative posts -want- the game to be better, but we've just been burned so many times by false promises it becomes hard to believe anything will be done to turn this base into what it was promised to be.

The question now is, do they really want to? They got their money and they know people will be very wary about giving them more, so the incentive is kindof not all there. Will this be another no man's sky, or another anthem? I am hopeful for the former... But I am skeptical.
 
The question now is, do they really want to? They got their money and they know people will be very wary about giving them more, so the incentive is kindof not all there. Will this be another no man's sky, or another anthem? I am hopeful for the former... But I am skeptical.

Overall, I'm optimistic, but where I did get a little worried is that they chose to release the game in the current state when they had the option to just take a couple more months and probably squash most of the serious bugs.

I strongly suspect that it was the sales team with the epiphany that it was going to sell massively if released this holiday season, with close to no competitors and with the new consoles having come out. It's the right decision for the short term, but a very wrong one for the long term.

That said, I'm too in love with the base game and the potential that's there, and I really hope the multiplayer and patches and etc. can realize that potential.
 
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