It did. Problem is - it's badly written and by the end devolves into nonsense (Ciri venturing to fight extremely cold weather with power of confidence, I guess...)
I though it was pretty obvious that she uses her powers to fight it - and she needs confidence in herself to unleash its full potential. It's the entire point of her story - finding inner strength and reasons to fight, when almost everything and everyone is out to get her.
So I dunno, sounds pretty subjective on your part.
I mean, yeah, I don't have concrete 100% proof for that claim, that's true. But if that's really what they were planning for the characters and story all along, then I can't say I'm hugely impressed.
You are free to think that Meridith's story - or lack there of - is fine as it is, that the main plot is absolutely fine, both in length and execution - and that devs did everything they possibly could.
I just don't want to sell them short.
It did. Problem is - it's badly written and by the end devolves into nonsense (Ciri venturing to fight extremely cold weather with power of confidence, I guess...).
Ciri entering the portal to deal with the White Frost is a tiny section of the game. It's not hours and hours of tacked on content.
This part of the game was not nonsense either. Even though it was arguably a poor fit to keep the White Frost in the background all game and pull it out this way at the last minute.
The point was none of this stuff is relevant to the thread topic. At a certain point people need to move on. Instead of constantly dredging up all the baggage.
Like many people I wanted to see any and all loose ends tied up after leaving Night City with Judy and Panam.
Does V get cured or not and do they stay with the Aldecaldos or leave.
Imagine the spin in which V has to go through things that Johnny went through in order to reform their mind enough to fit into their modified body.
That is an above-and-beyond stretch.
Then your definition of a "secret" varies greatly from the established one.
It's only a secret if somebody is trying to hide it, otherwise it's just a fact that some people are ignorant of. For example, you likely don't know much about software development beyond surface-level truths not because these things are a secret, but because you simply lack the knowledge.
And, as we've established, Ciri being in the game was knowable (i.e. not a secret) as soon as the game was officially revealed.
But I got the feeling that my (V) story was undermined because of Johnny. In the main game it felt like I was Robin and Johnny was Batman.
Even if Johnny appears in the DLC, as long as V doesn't feel like a sidekick, it shouldn't be a problem to me.
since it's confirmed that Johnny is coming back, I want to remind the developers once again that there are fans like me.
But I got the feeling that my (V) story was undermined because of Johnny. In the main game it felt like I was Robin and Johnny was Batman.
Even if Johnny appears in the DLC, as long as V doesn't feel like a sidekick, it shouldn't be a problem to me.
since it's confirmed that Johnny is coming back, I want to remind the developers once again that there are fans like me.
I Think It is better not to use such emoticons.
Because it feels a bit sarcastic to accept.
I can feel how much you love the CP2077, and I think it's a great game too (even if it doesn't look like that).
You and I are in the same boat, and we only have different opinions, feels on parts of the story.
It wasn't sarcasm. I genuinely do not get where "this isn't V's story, it's Johnny's" is coming from.
As I see it, central conflict of the game's story is: "How do we stop biochip from killing V?"
That's the reason we seek Voodoo Boys, that's why we need Alt, Hellman and Hanako. To find the way to save V.
The only section of the game that qualifies as "Johnny's story" is completely optional questchain that starts with Chippin' In and ends with A Like Supreme. That's the only time we're dealing with Johnny's problems.
It wasn't sarcasm. I genuinely do not get where "this isn't V's story, it's Johnny's" is coming from.
As I see it, central conflict of the game's story is: "How do we stop biochip from killing V?"
That's the reason we seek Voodoo Boys, that's why we need Alt, Hellman and Hanako. To find the way to save V.
The only section of the game that qualifies as "Johnny's story" is completely optional questchain that starts with Chippin' In and ends with A Like Supreme. That's the only time we're dealing with Johnny's problems.
Yep, I don't understand where it come from too...
Knowing that outside of Johnny's memories and Johnny's side quests which obviously concern... Johnny, during the whole game, Johnny mainly (if not always...) "appear" to comment about what V did, what V do, what V should/must do, what he would have done in place of V or simply to say bullshits...
The vast majority of the game already feels like a Johnny story. If we are only getting one expansion, let Johnny take a backseat and give us a more V-centric story with minimum relic shenanigans.
That's because it has always been a Johnny story. I don't know why people don't understand this but V is not the main character here, and never have been. V's experience certainly plays a major role in the story, but more as an anti-paragon to the actual main character - Johnny. Silverhand's arc is the final chapter of his story as primarily presented in the original tabletop game, and depending on V (the player's) choices, is either his coup de grace against Arasaka, or final defeat.
V's primary role is as a conduit for the player to experience the tabletop game in an audio-visual experience, and as the player, you get to decide how Johnny's story plays out using V as a medium. Of course, that means that the player must be offered a wide range of experiences in Night City, including an array of side quests that can help inspire the choices the player is going to make. Whom did V romance, for example, if anyone, and how does that play out for the finale? These experiences, however, do not represent a character arc. V doesn't have one. Johnny, however, does, and that is one of the defining factors of a main character, if a story even has a main character. In this story, V is Johnny's anti-paragon. He changes because of V in the same way that the narrative and characters of the Expanse all change because of Holden, but Holden himself never actually changes. He is the same man at the end of the story as he was at the beginning.
Anyway, I've gone on long enough. The short of it is, this absolutely is a Johnny story. It's a story about a few other things, as well, but it epitomises the futility of Johnny's struggle by representing it as V's (your) struggle, complete with the futility. It is a proper cyberpunk story, which is what ultimately matters, regardless of who the main character is.
It wasn't sarcasm. I genuinely do not get where "this isn't V's story, it's Johnny's" is coming from.
As I see it, central conflict of the game's story is: "How do we stop biochip from killing V?"
That's the reason we seek Voodoo Boys, that's why we need Alt, Hellman and Hanako. To find the way to save V.
The only section of the game that qualifies as "Johnny's story" is completely optional questchain that starts with Chippin' In and ends with A Like Supreme. That's the only time we're dealing with Johnny's problems.
Johnny's personal problems are not his real problem. You spend the entire game dealing with his real problems, which are his narcissism, his obsession with Arasaka, and as V so eloquently intuits, his desperate need for a nemesis. The story is and always has been about Johnny, and V is the player's conduit through which he is ultimately shaped in this final chapter of his story, the rest of which is told by the tabletop game that it is all based on.
V's attempt to save him/herself from the biochip is the driving and motivating force for the narrative. It is a mcguffin, although a very well disguised one since it actually plays a proper narrative role, especially considering that it also drives the primary cyberpunk narratives of futility. V is trying to save him/herself, not anybody else, but will never succeed in that task. What V achieves instead is shaping Johnny's character arc.
That's because it has always been a Johnny story. I don't know why people don't understand this but V is not the main character here, and never have been. V's experience certainly plays a major role in the story, but more as an anti-paragon to the actual main character - Johnny. Silverhand's arc is the final chapter of his story as primarily presented in the original tabletop game, and depending on V (the player's) choices, is either his coup de grace against Arasaka, or final defeat.
V's primary role is as a conduit for the player to experience the tabletop game in an audio-visual experience, and as the player, you get to decide how Johnny's story plays out using V as a medium. Of course, that means that the player must be offered a wide range of experiences in Night City, including an array of side quests that can help inspire the choices the player is going to make. Whom did V romance, for example, if anyone, and how does that play out for the finale? These experiences, however, do not represent a character arc. V doesn't have one. Johnny, however, does, and that is one of the defining factors of a main character, if a story even has a main character. In this story, V is Johnny's anti-paragon. He changes because of V in the same way that the narrative and characters of the Expanse all change because of Holden, but Holden himself never actually changes. He is the same man at the end of the story as he was at the beginning.
Anyway, I've gone on long enough. The short of it is, this absolutely is a Johnny story. It's a story about a few other things, as well, but it epitomises the futility of Johnny's struggle by representing it as V's (your) struggle, complete with the futility. It is a proper cyberpunk story, which is what ultimately matters, regardless of who the main character is.
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Johnny's personal problems are not his real problem. You spend the entire game dealing with his real problems, which are his narcissism, his obsession with Arasaka, and as V so eloquently intuits, his desperate need for a nemesis. The story is and always has been about Johnny, and V is the player's conduit through which he is ultimately shaped in this final chapter of his story, the rest of which is told by the tabletop game that it is all based on.
V's attempt to save him/herself from the biochip is the driving and motivating force for the narrative. It is a mcguffin, although a very well disguised one since it actually plays a proper narrative role, especially considering that it also drives the primary cyberpunk narratives of futility. V is trying to save him/herself, not anybody else, but will never succeed in that task. What V achieves instead is shaping Johnny's character arc.
V is the primary driver of the story if for no reason that they're not only the body doing the heavy lifting up but the fact they're the one who is dying. Johnny serves more as a Greek chorus, constantly narrating for the story and giving his opinions. The big thing that some players miss, of course, is that they can ignore everything that comes out of Johnny's mouth.
A perfectly valid story that comes out of V's journey is V hates Johnny, constantly blames them for their self-defeating, and self-pitying attitude before climaxing in "The Devil" where V kills Johnny by deleting him only to leave to die on their own or realize (to their horror) that they have made a deal with the Devil.
Arguably, the "best" ending also is the one where you DON'T listen to Johnny and you forge strong emotional bonds with the Aldecados and Panam before leaving with them. Johnny betrayed Alt Cunningham and Rogue and thus could never escape Night City. You, on the other hand, can, for at least a short while.
While I may accede that they're co-stars, the arguable role of Johnny Silverhand is that V is a foil for them. V is unfortunately the straight man/woman in their life and considerably more sober, clear-headed, and rationale--which many gamers are probably annoyed by as the more theatrical role is usually the more "fun."
V is the primary driver of the story if for no reason that they're not only the body doing the heavy lifting up but the fact they're the one who is dying. Johnny serves more as a Greek chorus, constantly narrating for the story and giving his opinions. The big thing that some players miss, of course, is that they can ignore everything that comes out of Johnny's mouth.
A perfectly valid story that comes out of V's journey is V hates Johnny, constantly blames them for their self-defeating, and self-pitying attitude before climaxing in "The Devil" where V kills Johnny by deleting him only to leave to die on their own or realize (to their horror) that they have made a deal with the Devil.
Arguably, the "best" ending also is the one where you DON'T listen to Johnny and you forge strong emotional bonds with the Aldecados and Panam before leaving with them. Johnny betrayed Alt Cunningham and Rogue and thus could never escape Night City. You, on the other hand, can, for at least a short while.
While I may accede that they're co-stars, the arguable role of Johnny Silverhand is that V is a foil for them. V is unfortunately the straight man/woman in their life and considerably more sober, clear-headed, and rationale--which many gamers are probably annoyed by as the more theatrical role is usually the more "fun."
You made points that don't actually contend with anything I said. Again, the player, get to choose Johnny's ultimate fate. The fact that V is dying is relevant only as a tool to generate a sense of urgency. It's actually one of my primary gripes with the game, in so much as that urgency is only felt after certain missions with certain triggers, but that is a product of the open world game design more than a problem with the story itself. See, Johnny is already dead and even if he's not, even if that is the real Johnny in V's head, he's also dying just as soon as you get him out of you and 'Alt' absorbs him.
Now don't get me wrong, V is a primary protagonist in this story, and I can accept that the story is about BOTH V and Silverhand, but in the context of the experience I've had with Cyberpunk, which includes all the tabletop games from the 90s as well, I'm seeing it as Silverhand's final coup de grace. Remember, V is forced to take on Silverhand as much as Silverhand is forced into V, and whilst we, the player, don't really see the full narrative potential of that interaction play out while we're busy shooting up Scavs in Pacifica while chasing down errant VDB cyberpsycho netrunners and grinding out our 50 kills with Skippy, it is not an irrelevant interaction. The choices you have as a player do not represent a narrative arc for V, because that would require V to change as a person. They don't. Any changes that V has a minor shifts in opinion, at most, but there is no real arc for V. V's story is a simple "save yourself" one, the very core of any good cyberpunk story, but the actual character arc goes to Silverhand.
The story can absolutely be about both of them. But if it has to be about one or the other, it's Silverhand. V is just a passenger in that, the same way that Geralt of Rivia was always just a passenger of Ciri's story in The Witcher. Once again, many people make the mistake of thinking The Witcher is about Geralt, and whilst it does tell stories about Geralt, the primary narrative arc is about Ciri. Cyberpunk tells a story about V, sure, but the primary narrative arc is about Johnny Silverhand.
You made points that don't actually contend with anything I said. Again, the player, get to choose Johnny's ultimate fate. The fact that V is dying is relevant only as a tool to generate a sense of urgency. It's actually one of my primary gripes with the game, in so much as that urgency is only felt after certain missions with certain triggers, but that is a product of the open world game design more than a problem with the story itself. See, Johnny is already dead and even if he's not, even if that is the real Johnny in V's head, he's also dying just as soon as you get him out of you and 'Alt' absorbs him.
Now don't get me wrong, V is a primary protagonist in this story, and I can accept that the story is about BOTH V and Silverhand, but in the context of the experience I've had with Cyberpunk, which includes all the tabletop games from the 90s as well, I'm seeing it as Silverhand's final coup de grace. Remember, V is forced to take on Silverhand as much as Silverhand is forced into V, and whilst we, the player, don't really see the full narrative potential of that interaction play out while we're busy shooting up Scavs in Pacifica while chasing down errant VDB cyberpsycho netrunners and grinding out our 50 kills with Skippy, it is not an irrelevant interaction. The choices you have as a player do not represent a narrative arc for V, because that would require V to change as a person. They don't. Any changes that V has a minor shifts in opinion, at most, but there is no real arc for V. V's story is a simple "save yourself" one, the very core of any good cyberpunk story, but the actual character arc goes to Silverhand.
The story can absolutely be about both of them. But if it has to be about one or the other, it's Silverhand. V is just a passenger in that, the same way that Geralt of Rivia was always just a passenger of Ciri's story in The Witcher. Once again, many people make the mistake of thinking The Witcher is about Geralt, and whilst it does tell stories about Geralt, the primary narrative arc is about Ciri. Cyberpunk tells a story about V, sure, but the primary narrative arc is about Johnny Silverhand.
Summed it up perfectly in both your post. This is why I don't like Cyberpunk's story. It is unequivocally Johnny Silverhand's story. The only thing the player gets to know about V is he's merc, and is about to die. And these things only play as an impetus for the real story of the game.
Summed it up perfectly in both your post. This is why I don't like Cyberpunk's story. It is unequivocally Johnny Silverhand's story. The only thing the player gets to know about V is he's merc, and is about to die. And these things only play as an impetus for the real story of the game.
There's actually plenty to know about V, the problem being that you have to specify WHICH V the same way Dragon Age: Origin does it. There's three V's, arguably six.
* Are we discussing V the lesbian Nomad who falls in love with the country girl, Judy, who she eventually convinces to leave Night City and go on the open road where people aren't complete shit?
* We we discussing Corpo V who is a murderous psychopath and almost objectively pure evil that sides with Hanako Arasaka, betrays Johnny, and gladly sells his soul to the Engram.
* Are we discussing Street Kid V who never quite recovers from Jackie's death and nevertheless decides to assault Arasaka Tower alone, achieving being a Night City legend and realizing...none of it means a goddamn thing because they don't have their friend?
Part of being an RPG is MAKING your own story.
V is not like Ezio as they're not defined by CD Projekt Red. The goal is to make the story yourself and while the choices are not as varied as some games, they do exist.
Even in gameplay style:
* Does your V kill people or use a Pax Mod? It makes no difference in gameplay--except you may be a mass murderer or you may just be a technical pacifist.
Don't mind Johnny being there. But I can't help thinking that they are still just in the process of putting out fire with an absolute minimum of effort.
This is from 2020: During a conference call on the first half of 2020, one of the questions concerned the post-game support for the RPG game, and whether it’d follow a similar trajectory to Geralt’s many adventures. The answer is yes, with even more in the pipeline this time around. “Yes, you can expect a similar path after release,” Adam Kiciński, president and joint-CEO of CD Projekt, said. “You can expect more, actually.”
Given they have announced that they are only doing one expansion, I think it's somewhat obvious that they just want this out so they can maintain some sort of similarity to that of TW3 and just move on.
The number of bugs in the game, some still from when it was released and some completely new to me at least, is still all over the place. From characters walking through walls to objects hanging in the air. NPCs standing places so your quest breaks. Random exploding cars etc.
I appreciate that they at least try to fix some of it with these patches, but it is going extremely slow, to be honest. Also, I would expect all these bugs to be in the expansion as well, given they haven't fixed them yet.
So am I excited about the expansion?
Not at all, I expect it to be a huge mess. I also expect there to be close to no choice matters, because that cat is out of the bag now.
The game still suffers from a lot of questionable game designs, which will obviously also be transferred to the expansion. NC is as dead as when the game was first released, so no effort seems to have gone into this either. Traffic is barely functional and the list goes on.
They did add all the new apartments and bought one and it is as pointless as the first one. Again very low effort of trying to integrate these things into the game where they serve a purpose.
Instead of an expansion I would much rather they put all effort into making the best possible modding tool for the community and let them fix it and let people play around with it as a sandbox game. And then focus on fixing bugs and performance issues, UI issues etc.
Don't mind Johnny being there. But I can't help thinking that they are still just in the process of putting out fire with an absolute minimum of effort.
This is from 2020: During a conference call on the first half of 2020, one of the questions concerned the post-game support for the RPG game, and whether it’d follow a similar trajectory to Geralt’s many adventures. The answer is yes, with even more in the pipeline this time around. “Yes, you can expect a similar path after release,” Adam Kiciński, president and joint-CEO of CD Projekt, said. “You can expect more, actually.”
Given they have announced that they are only doing one expansion, I think it's somewhat obvious that they just want this out so they can maintain some sort of similarity to that of TW3 and just move on.
The number of bugs in the game, some still from when it was released and some completely new to me at least, is still all over the place. From characters walking through walls to objects hanging in the air. NPCs standing places so your quest breaks. Random exploding cars etc.
I appreciate that they at least try to fix some of it with these patches, but it is going extremely slow, to be honest. Also, I would expect all these bugs to be in the expansion as well, given they haven't fixed them yet.
So am I excited about the expansion?
Not at all, I expect it to be a huge mess. I also expect there to be close to no choice matters, because that cat is out of the bag now.
The game still suffers from a lot of questionable game designs, which will obviously also be transferred to the expansion. NC is as dead as when the game was first released, so no effort seems to have gone into this either. Traffic is barely functional and the list goes on.
They did add all the new apartments and bought one and it is as pointless as the first one. Again very low effort of trying to integrate these things into the game where they serve a purpose.
Instead of an expansion I would much rather they put all effort into making the best possible modding tool for the community and let them fix it and let people play around with it as a sandbox game. And then focus on fixing bugs and performance issues, UI issues etc.
1. I actually am inclined to think Phantom Liberty was meant to be the only expansion as we've found out from the data-miners that there was data inside the main game about it but there's no sign about any other game plans for it.
2. The game was flat out unfinished two years ago and a year of fixing bugs and revamping systems has gone a long way to making it stable on previous platforms as well as dealing with the other bugs. I feel like anyone who complains about the game now has to grade it on the curve or they're just wrong.
3. I'm not sure what Night City's "dead"-ness is, though, at least on next generation PCs.
4. The apartments have coffee buffs, sleep buffs, shower buffs, computers, dressing rooms, and armories. I'm not sure what exactly else you could possibly want from them.
5. Also, no offense, fixing performance issues means shit when you, you know, have no more game to play.
