I was hoping the DLC story wasn't with Silverhand

[CTPhipps]

Part of the issue is that Cyberpunk 2077 is the anti-Grand Theft Auto in many ways, at least in terms of themes. Grand Theft Auto is a power fantasy about how the world is awful, violence is everywhere, and you are a sociopathic criminal who can become incredibly rich by being a complete piece of shit. Claude? Tommy Verceti? Carl Johnson? All of them end up with massive amounts of money and enormous power on piles of bodies. The Boss from Saints Row kind of pin balls as a power fantasy as well, which is ironic, given they actually do occasionally suffer some karma for their evil deeds.

V?

V is absolutely SHIT UPON by the world and winning all of the fancy cars, apartments, and more means nothing because they have months to enjoy them even if they succeed in regaining their life.

Night City also takes all of the blackly humorous awfulness of the GTA world and plays it entirely straight.

"This world of capitalism, politics, and gross out humor is sad and awful."

 

[northwold]

I don't think V without Johnny has the scope to be an interesting character. He would be an Elder Scrolls hero -- ie a blank nothing with which the player does anything they like and, as a result, a complete dullard. Which is great for wish fulfilment RPGs where storytelling is of secondary priority and quality, but that plain isn't what CDPR do. They're about strong writing and strong characters.

Likewise, actually, I think Silverhand without V to balance him plain isn't interesting as he is too extreme in his personality to root for.

It is the combination of the two characters that gives the game its very soul and you'd need some very serious repositioning of the story, I think, for it to really work without one or the other. Including, possibly, by removing V as a playable character and introducing a new player character.

(PS It's for these reasons that I've always found the idea of extended playtime with Jackie really offputting -- it's two boring (in isolation) characters doing nothing of consequence with nothing at stake. The adventures of Jackie and V, it strikes me, would be mindless player wish fulfilment that really wouldn't fit what the game is trying to do. It would be Days of Our Lives meets Macbeth -- ie ridiculous.)

 

[CTPhipps]

I don't think V without Johnny has the scope to be an interesting character. He would be an Elder Scrolls hero -- ie a blank nothing with which the player does anything they like and, as a result, a complete dullard. Which is great for wish fulfilment RPGs where storytelling is of secondary priority and quality, but that plain isn't what CDPR do. They're about strong writing and strong characters.

Likewise, actually, I think Silverhand without V to balance him plain isn't interesting as he is too extreme in his personality to root for.

It is the combination of the two characters that gives the game its very soul and you'd need some very serious repositioning of the story, I think, for it to really work without one or the other. Including, possibly, by removing V as a playable character and introducing a new player character.

I think that everyone who argues for a V DLC without Johnny is they want to see V developed from their three origins into a full-fledged character.

 

[northwold]

I think that everyone who argues for a V DLC without Johnny is they want to see V developed from their three origins into a full-fledged character.

And I think that's something that can be done, but not necessarily without taking the player's control over V away. Because there needs to be scope for the writing to impose character traits on V that might go against what the player had imagined.

For instance, one thought I had a while ago was that, if you wanted to do a follow-up as an expandion, you would give the player a new character, in a world of s***, some time after the base game. A mysterious figure would be behind or somehow in the middle of that s***. And that figure later on turns out to be V -- grizzled, in a trenchcoat, whatever.

And yes, maybe V is playable at that later stage. But without, in that example, the time jump and player detachment, there's little scope to evolve V in interesting ways without running the risk of ruining people's mental pictures of what their creation would become.

 

[CTPhipps]

And I think that's something that can be done, but not necessarily without taking the player's control over V away. Because there needs to be scope for the writing to impose character traits on V that might go against what the player had imagined.

For instance, one thought I had a while ago was that, if you wanted to do a follow-up as an expandion, you would give the player a new character, in a world of s***, some time after the base game. A mysterious figure would be behind or somehow in the middle of that s***. And that figure later on turns out to be V -- grizzled, in a trenchcoat, whatever.

And yes, maybe V is playable at that later stage. But without, in that example, the time jump and player detachment, there's little scope to evolve V in interesting ways without running the risk of ruining people's mental pictures of what their creation would become.

A bigger issue for me is that V is relatively well-defined by video game standards, it's just there's THREE V'S.

* Nomad V who is a person who has strong family roots that they've hit issues with, salt of the Earth, and is basically Panam.

* Corpo V is basically a professional secret agent who has been disbarred and now has become the protagonist of BURN NOTICE, working the streets.

* Street Kid V is a dedicated survivor and street merc who is probably not that different than 99% of the people we're shooting. It's just they decided to go solo (pun intended) than join a gang.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I never saw V as 'we', I saw V and Johnny as independant characters and they hadn't made it to the 'we' stage yet.

It's just my opinion, bu in fact, as hellman say it, V is "V" and "Johnny" as the same time. Or also Zen Master say V have two souls, and when V ask "Which soul is mine", he answer "both".

It's exactly as in Fight Club, the main Character is the "Narrator" and "Tyler Durden" at the same time, even if during the whole movie, the narrator trully believe that he speak to someone else

 

[goldeneyehd]

Frankly, the LACK of Bucket List options feels like a big mistake. Imagine if the game had...say, six more months for story content and they added these options:

* Try to earn 100,000K to give to Mama Welles and Jackie's girlfriend to take care of them after you're gone.

* Get revenge on the asshole from your opening segment of the game.

* Have a night where you enjoy all of the wonderful things that you loved in life with your LI and/or Johnny as a finale before the big adventure.

* Make arrangements for your body if you die at the cemetary.

give me 10 min and i can make extra content to be added to the game after those u said have been added lol. u can just fantasize content and say the game needed it.

 

[CTPhipps]

give me 10 min and i can make extra content to be added to the game after those u said have been added lol. u can just fantasize content and say the game needed it.

I mean, yes, when I say I wish the game had more storytelling content, I do in fact wish it had more.

 

[Bloodartist]

Totally on board with this. Someone mentioned above that ' V is we' meaning V and Johnny, and I don't agree with this (no offense to the person who said this). I never saw V as 'we', I saw V and Johnny as independant characters and they hadn't made it to the 'we' stage yet. Regardless, V's fate is pretty much sealed no matter what you do.

I'd much rather have a story around V (DLC) and like some, find a cure and he/she lives on, I for one can do without Johnny. When I saw the ad with Keanu saying he was back I said 'oh no'. Keanu is a great guy, don't get me wrong, but I really thought we were done with that character.

You however may have quoted the wrong message. My post was nothing about V and Johnny.

My post was about V's story being a cancer patient story. And how this undermines all enjoyment I could potentially have about the story or game. Its why I spend all my time on these forums talking down CDPR. This whole story was one of the worst decisions I have seen in video games, during my 30 year tenure in video games. (edit: ok, more than that, technically started in 1980s)

 

[CTPhipps]

You however may have quoted the wrong message. My post was nothing about V and Johnny.

My post was about V's story being a cancer patient story. And how this undermines all enjoyment I could potentially have about the story or game. Its why I spend all my time on these forums talking down CDPR. This whole story was one of the worst decisions I have seen in video games, during my 30 year tenure in video games. (edit: ok, more than that, technically started in 1980s)

Yeah, they wanted to tell a story about a guy dying and whether he'd go out in the Blaze of Glory or a quiet life.

Its the story they wanted even if most would have been content with a wish fulfillment story.

 

[ReptilePZ]

CDPR: It's a story about V dying and what they do with the time they have left.

Personally, I quite liked the overall direction of the story, but I must disagree with this statement.

The story is about V trying to survive - througout the entire game, your goal is to find a way to save V. V isn't resigned to their fate, going through their bucket list before they die. No, V spends that time fighting to keep their identity.

 

[SigilFey]

I very much enjoyed the story, the way the character of Johnny was executed, and I'm glad to see that they're expanding on those themes.

On the same token, I get the argument the OP presents. Cyberpunk 2020 is a popular roleplaying system that many people have taken in a lot of different directions over the years. It's very apparent that a large number of players were extremely disappointed that the game did not allow them to play out some of those same fantasies when the game released. Instead, very much like the character of Geralt in the Witcher Series, V was strongly defined for the purposes of taking a direct part in the narrative delivery.

So, rather than a blank-slate character that would allow players to engage in a visualization of the Cyberpunk universe and interact with the game in the same way they would for PnP, the character of V was instead a sort of on-rails medium used to deliver a pre-determined story line with a few branches, twists, and turns.

In super simple terms, lots of players wanted a sandbox experience, but that's simply not what the game is. What I will agree with is that I feel adding a "sandbox mode" to the game might really tickle a lot of people's fancy. Building enough things to do in that mode on top of what is already there, however, would probably take a tremendous amount of time, and it's clearly not the vision that the devs had. For something like that, I think it would be better to argue for that sort of approach in a sequel. I truly do get, though. I love sandbox games.

 

[koalahugs]

Personally, I quite liked the overall direction of the story, but I must disagree with this statement.

The story is about V trying to survive - througout the entire game, your goal is to find a way to save V. V isn't resigned to their fate, going through their bucket list before they die. No, V spends that time fighting to keep their identity.

Exactly. To do a bucket list story you would need a turning point in the narrative where V makes that resignation and basically decides, "I'm gonna stop looking for a cure now, instead I'm gonna [insert bucket list item(s) here] before I die". But that's not the story CDPR decided to run with.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

It's a story about V dying and what they do with the time they have left.

The story is about V trying to survive

Both of you are right...
- Yes, V's dying... I far as I know, it's pretty clear that there won't be any "cure". All of those who think that there is way to find a cure, more or less need V to serve their own interests (Alt/Goro/Hanako) or don't know anything about the Relic.
- Yes, V have to decide what's the most important, doing other/good things beside or trying to find a cure as fast as possible.
- And indeed, yes, V try to survive... It's rather "human" to not give up, even if everyone said that you're doomed anyway.

There is three layers in the story (at minimum...), choose the one which suits you the best

 

[BarefootWarrior]

You however may have quoted the wrong message. My post was nothing about V and Johnny.

My post was about V's story being a cancer patient story. And how this undermines all enjoyment I could potentially have about the story or game. Its why I spend all my time on these forums talking down CDPR. This whole story was one of the worst decisions I have seen in video games, during my 30 year tenure in video games. (edit: ok, more than that, technically started in 1980s)

Got it, I stand corrected. Thanks for clarifying that. and I appreciate it. I do agree with you on the on the storyline, and like you I have been playing these games for a good number of years and this story just didn't make any sense to me. Regardless, I still feel that there is so much potential with this.

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

Both of you are right...
- Yes, V's dying... I far as I know, it's pretty clear that there won't be any "cure". All of those who think that there is way to find a cure, more or less need V to serve their own interests (Alt/Goro/Hanako) or don't know anything about the Relic.

I mean... Not really. If anything, the way story progresses, the implication is pretty clear that there are ways to at least slow down this condition to a sufficient level.
In a world where human consciousness can be stored on a flash drive and where most people have multiple cyber-implants anyway, any question of "cure" becomes a question of price.

- Yes, V have to decide what's the most important, doing other/good things beside or trying to find a cure as fast as possible.

That's... Not exactly how I viewed it go.
For the majority of story, V is actively looking for cure. Most of the people (s)he meets are in one way or another related to this main pursuit. As a matter of fact, if you help some of them, the game rewards you by giving you additional aid during your final mission - which is, retrieve the cure. In no way, shape or form there was any sort of dilemma in you trying to find a cure as fast as possible or helping others.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Both of you are right...
- Yes, V's dying... I far as I know, it's pretty clear that there won't be any "cure". All of those who think that there is way to find a cure, more or less need V to serve their own interests (Alt/Goro/Hanako) or don't know anything about the Relic.
- Yes, V have to decide what's the most important, doing other/good things beside or trying to find a cure as fast as possible.
- And indeed, yes, V try to survive... It's rather "human" to not give up, even if everyone said that you're doomed anyway.

There is three layers in the story (at minimum...), choose the one which suits you the best

I agree that in the epilogue it is in fact heavily implied that there is no "cure", and I feel this fits the story and themes better, but I do also think there's enough room for speculation left as a way for CDPR to continue V's story, if they decide it's worth doing.

Either way, my point is that this reveal only happens at the end, so the overall story is one of a fight for survival (among many other things) rather than one of V trying to come to terms with their inevitable death.

Getting back to the topic, I can understand why some people want the freedom to just play as V for one reason or another. But, clearly, it's not the story CDPR wants to tell with Cyberpunk 2077. Perhaps future titles in the franchise will present an opportunity for an experience which would be closer to that.

 

[Audi82]

I WAS HOPING THE DLC STORY WASN'T WITH SILVERHAND​

me too. Tons of money to pay a well knowed actor and what we have in exchange? An awful launch and 20 hours of main quest after 8 years of waiting. And now we have to deal with this pain in the a$$ called Silverhand AGAIN.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I agree that in the epilogue it is in fact heavily implied that there is no "cure", and I feel this fits the story and themes better, but I do also think there's enough room for speculation left as a way for CDPR to continue V's story, if they decide it's worth doing.

Wait, I never say it's "written in the stone"
V still have 6 months to live and I believe V will follow Johnny's advice : To never stop fighting.
So who know, there is always a way for CDPR to find/create a way, but currently V is doomed, everything else is hope.

I mean... Not really. If anything, the way story progresses, the implication is pretty clear that there are ways to at least slow down this condition to a sufficient level.

I would be interested to know which implications are "clear"

• Viktor don't know (way above his skills)
• Hellman say that V is doomed no matter what.
• The VDBs say "maybe" but they don't have any intention to help anyway (and they don't care^^).
• Goro say that Arasaka could, but he know nothing... and need V.
• Hanako the same as Goro, for the same reason.
• Alt who say "maybe" only if she have the technology.

 

[CTPhipps]

I WAS HOPING THE DLC STORY WASN'T WITH SILVERHAND​

me too. Tons of money to pay a well knowed actor and what we have in exchange? An awful launch and 20 hours of main quest after 8 years of waiting. And now we have to deal with this pain in the a$$ called Silverhand AGAIN.

Keanu Reeves has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the game was flat out UNFINISHED at launch. It took an additional two years to get it all hammered out and basically some of it was, "Yeah, there's no way this can run on a PS4."