If CP2077 is this bad, how bad will the DLCs and MP be?

[Bloodartist]

They know they cant afford to have a release like this again. And the last thing they should be thinking about is multplayer.

Agreed. Multiplayer has MASSIVE issues of its own which must be resolved before you can release a multiplayer game. And there is an expectancy for high quality that is associated with CDPR at this point, so the new game will be scrutinized hard.

Just look at what happened with Bethesda and transition from fallout 4 (singleplayer) -> Fallout 76 (multiplayer)
How did it go?

They could fix up the story, make it 2x longer and give us sufficient time to get to know the characters, instead of taking the montage shortcut and all other shortcuts they took.

I sincerely doubt they will do any changes to the CP2077 story afterwards. Any new stories will likely to be entirely different stories, instead of continuations of cp2077 story.

 

[faverodefavero]

Expect nothing less than the Witcher 3 + GTA V bare minimum. So GTA V fully patched open world interaction and open world NPC AI plus Witcher 3 fully patched polish, RPG elements and writing / questing / combat quality plus cyberpunk anti censorship, setting, gore, and overall actitude. That is what everyone should expect from Cyberpunk 2077 bare minimum, and is basically what all the hype was about and what was advertised. I love the setting, I love the tabletop game, I don't blame developers, I blame lack of leadership, game should have been delayed another year or so.

Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2020

The game reeks of unfinished and management greed. We know CDPR devs can pull off a good story, they've done it in previous titles.

• They could fix up the story, make it 2x longer and give us sufficient time to get to know the characters, instead of taking the montage shortcut and all other shortcuts they took.
• They could make the prologues longer and give them hours more of depth, instead of rushing through.
• They could fix up the logical fractures of the story and make the lifepaths actually matter.
• They could add choice, proper RPG-like options and a citizen AI that actually reacts properly to events.

Of course they could and more, they have the capacity to do it, we've seen it.

Will the managers release their deathgrip on this game and let it reach its full potential, or will we add it to the list of hugely promising games that did not live up to their promise, while ruining the credibility of the company forever? I suppose that is the question.

CDPR read this.

 

[solomutt]

If anyone else has watched the end credits, it's not like the devs have to wear too many hats. Someone working in quest design will not be fixing AI etc., so I don't see why they couldn't be making a DLC pack while also fixing bugs.

I would guess that they probably have DLC content outlined at least, if not in any kind of production. But of course there is a lot of work to be done fixing the game now before we'll hear of any DLC. Multiplayer is probably not a good idea right now.

 

[NordicSpirit26]

Agreed. Multiplayer has MASSIVE issues of its own which must be resolved before you can release a multiplayer game. And there is an expectancy for high quality that is associated with CDPR at this point, so the new game will be scrutinized hard.

Just look at what happened with Bethesda and transition from fallout 4 (singleplayer) -> Fallout 76 (multiplayer)
How did it go?



I sincerely doubt they will do any changes to the CP2077 story afterwards. Any new stories will likely to be entirely different stories, instead of continuations of cp2077 story.

They already have screwed single player. I think their multiplayer will arrive much later. Not sure if they willl add at least something they promised for Cyberpunk or not.

Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2020

Till all this time all their games has so high quality standard. For me CDPR looked like Blizzard. But it was just right here in Europe, in country which is kinda close to me culturally and with games based on stuff which is also pretty close to me. I am huge Witcher one and one I discovered world of CP2020, I liked it a lot.
It really sad to see they failed to deliever us CP2077 in the state we expected it will be. I still value work of all people who worked on CP2077. They did a great job. Unfortunately, something what also needed to be done wasn't done because of this bad management

 

[hulkman2456]

Main issue, the unnecessary 6 months montage, what were they thinking???

I think this was mainly done because. Imagine playing out the 6 months. It would take a long build up to introduce Viktor, have money, fix/start your life over. The intro tutorial would pobably be 10 hours long. Before you had access to the main features. Not giving an excuse to weird story decisions. Lack of character development. Like Misty, for example. But this time jump I think was needed.

 

[Garrison72]

I think this was mainly done because. Imagine playing out the 6 months. It would take a long build up to introduce Viktor, have money. The intro tutorial would pobably be 10 hours long. Before you had access to the main features. Not giving an excuse to weird story decisions. But this time jump I think was needed.

To an extent, yes. But more time with Jackie was needed.

 

[hulkman2456]

To an extent, yes. But more time with Jackie was needed.

Totally agree on this point. But A time jump was needed. Killing him off this fast was a bad call. You do get to know Misty more. if you choose to do the Tarot side quest. But msot people will just ignore it. It is a boring side thing. I thought it was gonna be like the GTA hidden packages. But the game just gives you markers.

 

[MasterofThrees]

At this stage... They could have reskinned GTA or even Saints Row.
Made a Cyberpunk City / Story out of what already existed.
And it would be a better game.

I keep seeing apologists telling us, well, this isn't GTA so we shouldn't expect it to do everything GTA does.
BUT, for something that was marketed as innovative, pushing boundaries, etc. There is literally nothing that this game does, which GTA doesn't do. Yet GTA does everything that this game does - better.

Even if we refer to the Saints Row series instead of GTA. We have to go back 10 years to SR2 to find a reasonable comparison in terms of gameplay. There has been two iterations since then.

OK, this game might be prettier than those games. It has Raytracing - cool!

I think that the current state of Cyberpunk needs to come as a warning to Developers. It doesn't matter how pretty your game is, it doesn't matter how hard it pushes the hardware, the most important thing is getting the mechanics right.

 

[NordicSpirit26]

I think this was mainly done because. Imagine playing out the 6 months. It would take a long build up to introduce Viktor, have money, fix/start your life over. The intro tutorial would pobably be 10 hours long. Before you had access to the main features. Not giving an excuse to weird story decisions. Lack of character development. Like Misty, for example. But this time jump I think was needed.

It just could have been done differently...

Oh man, so many things could have be done differently.

Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2020

At this stage... They could have reskinned GTA or even Saints Row.
Made a Cyberpunk City / Story out of what already existed.
And it would be a better game.

I keep seeing apologists telling us, well, this isn't GTA so we shouldn't expect it to do everything GTA does.
BUT, for something that was marketed as innovative, pushing boundaries, etc. There is literally nothing that this game does, which GTA doesn't do. Yet GTA does everything that this game does - better.

Even if we refer to the Saints Row series instead of GTA. We have to go back 10 years to SR2 to find a reasonable comparison in terms of gameplay. There has been two iterations since then.

OK, this game might be prettier than those games. It has Raytracing - cool!

I think that the current state of Cyberpunk needs to come as a warning to Developers. It doesn't matter how pretty your game is, it doesn't matter how hard it pushes the hardware, the most important thing is getting the mechanics right.

Exactly. If it would be real RPG. but it's not. Official game's genre is open world action adventure. How is it different from, say, GTA? It's basically the same genre! And it's said by developers themselves.

 

[SakariFoxx]

I think people expected CDPr to create AI so advance that your missions would just organically develop as you lived in the world.

EVERY STORY has to be written from start to finish, and then its choices added afterwards, but apparently the story is on rails because what? The choices you make are too subtle for you? The game only has 6 endings when it should have 51314313151 endings? Because the entire budget shouldve been spent making branching story arcs rather than engaging ones?

Your fixer isnt your friend, they are middlemen, its always been portrayed like that, and youre a contractor. Youd think Dex wouldve set the tone for your relationship between merc and fixers in this world but i guess not.

This current fixer system is fine, but its even more perfect for multiplayer if they go the route of grand theft auto and having these fixers give you missions while youre going about exploring the world. Not only that, all of those missions come with a story, and lore if you bother to read and look for it, but ultimately it is finite, because the game works off finite resources.

I see a lot of people asking for the 6 months with jackie, were as i just see dlc opportunity. But why stop there? Why not the first time V met jackie? Why not the first time V got hired to arasaka as acorpo? Jackie is cool, but it was clear from the start YOUR MAIN COMPANION IS JOHNNY SILVERHAND. And hes not a prologue character like patrick stewart was in oblivion, or some gimmick like beranthal in breakpoint. Hes EVERYWHERE, on side missions, random ncpd jobs, just reading random lore...

Anyway, i say all that to say, the world is completely empty, resume shitting on it for lack of content.

 

[Cloneus69]

They stated that the most important feat they need to accomplish at the moment is regain the players' trust in their game and company name. They probably will fix this mess but who knows how long that will take. DLC will probably be pretty lame unless it adds more depth to the gameplay which is serviceable at best.

 

[NordicSpirit26]

I think people expected CDPr to create AI so advance that your missions would just organically develop as you lived in the world.

EVERY STORY has to be written from start to finish, and then its choices added afterwards, but apparently the story is on rails because what? The choices you make are too subtle for you? The game only has 6 endings when it should have 51314313151 endings? Because the entire budget shouldve been spent making branching story arcs rather than engaging ones?

Your fixer isnt your friend, they are middlemen, its always been portrayed like that, and youre a contractor. Youd think Dex wouldve set the tone for your relationship between merc and fixers in this world but i guess not.

This current fixer system is fine, but its even more perfect for multiplayer if they go the route of grand theft auto and having these fixers give you missions while youre going about exploring the world. Not only that, all of those missions come with a story, and lore if you bother to read and look for it, but ultimately it is finite, because the game works off finite resources.

I see a lot of people asking for the 6 months with jackie, were as i just see dlc opportunity. But why stop there? Why not the first time V met jackie? Why not the first time V got hired to arasaka as acorpo? Jackie is cool, but it was clear from the start YOUR MAIN COMPANION IS JOHNNY SILVERHAND. And hes not a prologue character like patrick stewart was in oblivion, or some gimmick like beranthal in breakpoint. Hes EVERYWHERE, on side missions, random ncpd jobs, just reading random lore...

Anyway, i say all that to say, the world is completely empty, resume shitting on it for lack of content.

Main problem here is that for multiplayer such mission structure would work. You just do contracts and it's fun

It doesn't work for singleplayer. For singleplayer you need proper storytelling. Imagine playing MMO just multiplayer game alone. It will feel empty and worthless. This is exactly how CP2077 often feels like in its current stage. Johnny aka Keanu helps the situation, as well as some impact of yours on the stories but... It's just is not enough and the world is just too scripted and not sandbox enough.
I guess, if multiplayer will be the same, all people will just play it and there will be only some people who will still be playing single player campaign. And Keanu's presence will not change much.

P.S. I really like Keanu and his character in this game and the fact that he is in so many quests makes me upset of wasting potential of CP2077 even more. There are very few games with so iconic actor being casted for so many quests in a videogame.

 

[Belazhur]

Cannot agree to most of what brought up by OP but still, a few things are (partially) valid.

• Massive tech issues.

- depends on what system you're looking at (PC most likely no, it runs well on mid and high-end PCs; next gen consoles ... havn't heard anything about it yet; old gen consoles, definitely yes [and highly expected] )

• Story on rails, no player agency. Superficial characters, never any time to get to know them. Disposable protagonist.

- cannot say anything about the story part, I'm still right on it / not done; but so far I'm having fun (50h+ into it)
- superficial characters ... hm, maybe a few, yes
- disposable protagonist ... well, that is up to you
(sidenote: if you don't read the shards you find along, then I can understand your thoughts here; but then it is up to you)

• It only has a thin veneer of RPG, it's really a looter shooter.

- hell no?! If that is your true oppinion then you havn't tried a lot in the game yet.

• A lot of lying. ("expect nothing less than the Witcher 3"

- who lied? it has never been said it will be a Witcher 3 or be like it. (not even possible in that setting)


Overall I think it's more a thing of "not fulfilled / wrong expectations" and/or "be not properly informed" what players are currently experiencing. The only thing that is valid here - with a high weight - are the issues on old gen consoles.

At least I can speak here for myself:
- "I got what I've expected and I'm happy.".

 

[NordicSpirit26]

Cannot agree to most of what brought up by OP but still, a few things are valid.

• Massive tech issues.

- depends on what system you looking at (PC most likely no, it runs well on mid and high-end PCs; next gen consoles ... havn't heard anything about it yet; old gen consoles, definitely yes [and highly expected] )

• Story on rails, no player agency. Superficial characters, never any time to get to know them. Disposable protagonist.

- cannot say anything about the story part, I'm still right on it / not done; but so far I'm having fun (50h+ into it)
- superficial characters ... hm, maybe a few, yes
- disposable protagonist ... well, that is up to you
(sidenote: if you don't read the shards you find along, then I can understand your thoughts here; but then it is up to you)

• It only has a thin veneer of RPG, it's really a looter shooter.

- hell no?! If that is your true oppinion then you havn't tried a lot in the game yet.

• A lot of lying. ("expect nothing less than the Witcher 3"

- who lied? it has never been said it will be a Witcher 3 or be like it. (not even possible in that setting)


Overall I think it's more a thing of "not fulfilled / wrong expectations" and/or "be not properly informed" what players are currently experiencing. The only thing that is valid here - with a high weight - is the issues on old gen consoles.
At least I can speak here for myself - "I got what I've expected and I'm happy.".

I would really like to share your opinion but I simply cannot. However, I can say this:

This game is obviously far from proper RPG games like Fallout New Vegas or Outer Worlds. Okay, this is not the concern. I played about 30+ hours now. Many gigs and side jobs are still too much on rails. There isn't much of variation. Which is sad but then let's find some other pluses in this game. But that's problematic. I will compare it to Skyrim to explain it. So, many see Bethesda's games as examples of good RPG games, while their games are on rails as well. Their Fallout 4 is still not the best RPG but it's the best RPG they did so far (New Vegas is done by different people). So, but their Skyrim was so popular. But why? It has a lot of rails too. I have 500+ hours in Skyrim. I can say that there are choices only in Daedric quests and there is choice with whom to side with in Civil War and that's pretty much it. BUT! Skyrim has very good sandbox system. The world is believable. This is the key what makes it so great, I think, along with its mechanics which actually work and work pretty well. Now this is where CP2077 has major problems. Not all its mechanics work well or work at all (stealth mode is pretty useless. Making cars collection also useless etc). It isn't really a sandbox game. It's pretty scripted. So, there isn't much of random encounters in Night City, which makes the city itself pretty dead. All missions are marked on map. So, you can't really do proper world exploration because of that and lack of random encounters. Wich turns CP2077 in basically multiplayer game like Tom Clancy's the Division, for example. But since it's purely single-player experience, there is a problem.
In Fallout 4 or Skyrim you don't need to entertain yourself. The game will entertain you. You can explore the world and encounter quests, npcs, enemies, random events and so on. And all this in immersive sandbox world (npc have their life cycles, there are caravans etc). In CP2077 on the other hand you have to entertain yourself. You have to find those missions and play them. You know that between markers on a map there is basically nothing.

It would be cool if in CP2077 there would be some quest chains for different gameplay styles, which couldn't be completed or even given to player without investing in proper perks and/or attributes. For example, you play as solo, or mixed class but still with solo's perks, so you do such quest-chain, which requeres a lot of shooting. On the next playthrough you do quest-сhain which requires a lot of stealth. Stealth chains would consist of theft missions while sole chain would consist of warfare missions and so on. And reward for quest-chain could be based on the class it's dedicated to - solo chain would give you nice gun in the end, while netrunner chain would give nice netrunner suit etc. It would be wise to do such quest-chain before finishing main quests, do get that reward and be stronger for the main quest or other quests.

 

[Bloodartist]

Totally agree on this point. But A time jump was needed. Killing him off this fast was a bad call.

Just starting the main quest during prologue this way was a bad call.

 

[hulkman2456]

Just starting the main quest during prologue this way was a bad call.

I mean T-Bug has it worse. She was killed so fast, and off screen. I thought she would pop up somewhere alive. But nope. Dead and forgotten about. Like really. I was hoping we found out she was taken by Arasaka and stole her engram too. Not even that.