[Igor + Scribes] Syndicate Completely Broken Deck

[DRK3]

So, i dont know if anyone has found this deck yet, i checked these forums and reddit and found nothing, but maybe the streamers have found it, i just dont follow them.

However, this thing is so unbeatable that it would be everywhere if it had been made public.

I took inspiration from the comments on the following thread, and from there, created this deck that is more broken than Bounties or Freakshow ever were.
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...of-the-syndicate-faction-poll.11009467/page-5

The concept is Igor+Scribes.
Igor lets you spawn as many copies of a bronze as you want, on that row, for 5 coins each.
Scribe gives you a coin each time you spawn a unit.
So if you have more than 5 scribes, not only is Igor's ability free, it GIVES you profit!

I was going with KoB, but did some math and Hemmelfart was superior for this. All you need is Sigi to instantly get 9 coins, Igor and 1 scribe, plus leader ability.

It gives the opponent 1 turn to counter or he'll lose. The 2nd turn, when i play Igor (a 6pt card). I got purify and Renew, so Banish or Seize are the only solutions. Otherwise, this:

If it wasnt for the limited space you get, you could generate infinite coins. I investigated if it was possible with Ewald Borsodi, but luckily he only hits enemies - if that wasnt the case, i would be able to generate infinite coins and this would need to be patched ASAP (probably still does)

After this, the best thing for opponent is to not destroy any units, otherwise i can generate 8 coins per turn, more with each leader charge. I can wipe the opponent's board with Ewald or boost like crazy with Blacksmith or Jackal.

The only times ive lost is when opponent tried to go for 2-0, since i got nothing for R1 and R2. For the times i got to R3, with Igor, Sigi and 1 Scribe? 7 wins on 7 matches, most forfeited, some lost by 40-60pts, even a player with Lacerate and Gimpy came close but still lost.

I apologize to the players that were my 'test subjects'. I was just trying to prove Syndicate and Gwent is at its most unbalanced state since HC launched.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2019

Here's some additional "proof" - why stop with one row, when you can generate tons of 7pt Ghouls and even get more coin (over 30pt swing(potentially 40 if i had more space)... with a bronze card, the one that moves rows)

 

[4RM3D]

This deck has existed since day one and it's only strong because of the surprise factor. Once players know of the tactic, it's quite easy to shut it down, besides the inherent weaknesses of the deck (like the row limit).

In comparison, this deck is no more scary than letting Foltest's Pride run rampart.

 

[Archan6el]

Root cause? The crappy coin mechanic again.

This deck has existed since day one and it's only strong because of the surprise factor. Once players know of the tactic, it's quite easy to shut it down, besides the inherent weaknesses of the deck (like the row limit).

In comparison, this deck is no more scary than letting Foltest's Pride run rampart.

You cannot know this will be played. How do you shut down a one-turn move? I hope you're not trying to normalize filling an entire row with engine cards in one turn. The comparison with Foltest's Pride is flawed to say the least.

Edit, added: Lol. Just thinking how ridiculous it is to nerf Gimpy with this expansion and not much earlier when we already had several other decks that suffered from Gimpy.

 

[Raziel_888]

So, i dont know if anyone has found this deck yet, i checked these forums and reddit and found nothing, but maybe the streamers have found it, i just dont follow them.

However, this thing is so unbeatable that it would be everywhere if it had been made public.

I took inspiration from the comments on the following thread, and from there, created this deck that is more broken than Bounties or Freakshow ever were.
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...of-the-syndicate-faction-poll.11009467/page-5

The concept is Igor+Scribes.
Igor lets you spawn as many copies of a bronze as you want, on that row, for 5 coins each.
Scribe gives you a coin each time you spawn a unit.
So if you have more than 5 scribes, not only is Igor's ability free, it GIVES you profit!

I was going with KoB, but did some math and Hemmelfart was superior for this. All you need is Sigi to instantly get 9 coins, Igor and 1 scribe, plus leader ability.

It gives the opponent 1 turn to counter or he'll lose. The 2nd turn, when i play Igor (a 6pt card). I got purify and Renew, so Banish or Seize are the only solutions. Otherwise, this:

View attachment 11008573
If it wasnt for the limited space you get, you could generate infinite coins. I investigated if it was possible with Ewald Borsodi, but luckily he only hits enemies - if that wasnt the case, i would be able to generate infinite coins and this would need to be patched ASAP (probably still does)

After this, the best thing for opponent is to not destroy any units, otherwise i can generate 8 coins per turn, more with each leader charge. I can wipe the opponent's board with Ewald or boost like crazy with Blacksmith or Jackal.
View attachment 11008576

The only times ive lost is when opponent tried to go for 2-0, since i got nothing for R1 and R2. For the times i got to R3, with Igor, Sigi and 1 Scribe? 7 wins on 7 matches, most forfeited, some lost by 40-60pts, even a player with Lacerate and Gimpy came close but still lost.

I apologize to the players that were my 'test subjects'. I was just trying to prove Syndicate and Gwent is at its most unbalanced state since HC launched.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2019

Here's some additional "proof" - why stop with one row, when you can generate tons of 7pt Ghouls and even get more coin (over 30pt swing(potentially 40 if i had more space)... with a bronze card, the one that moves rows)

View attachment 11008579

Add the kikimore in the deck on the other row. Eat the previous one with depleted order or one of the scribe to free a spot. Repeat as needed

 

[4RM3D]

You cannot know this will be played. How do you shut down a one-turn move?

When playing against Hemmelfart you should always expect some form of swarm. It's not like the old Dragon's Dream + Nivellen combo that almost any deck could play and could take you by surprise.

As for stopping the combo, that depends on the situation. For swarm decks, you usually want to try to bleed them, until they play their combo pieces. Furthermore, the combo can be disrupted by playing (artifact) removal. It's a greedy deck. As with all greedy decks, when it works, it works really well. When it doesn't, you'll lose the game.

The comparison with Foltest's Pride is flawed to say the least.

Igor fills the board and Pride clears the board. Both, left unchecked, will usually win you the game. Ironically, Demavend usually massacres Igor swarm because those decks lack enough removal. The point is, in both cases one card decides the entire game.

 

[DRK3]

@4RM3D True, this deck is possible since the launch of Novigrad, but i just thought of it today, and thought i was the first, but i did some further research and apparently some other players had already found similar strategies.

I think it's because how quickly Bounties and Freakshow stole the spotlight after launch, that other potential OP cards werent given more attention. Me, personally, i tried a fireswarm deck, but ditched the 3pt engines since they were always removed.

You say its only strong because of surprise factor? Easy to shut down? Please enlighten me how, because ive been steamrolling every player with it, a deck so strong you want your units removed so you can actually put all your cards on board.

Also, artefact removal? I dont use any artefacts at all in this! I dont even use the fire artifact because it would take too much space, and ironically its the reason i lost sometimes, because players were baiting it R1 and R2, when i didnt have it.

Yes Foltest Pride and Kiyan can as deadly as this, but they are end of round finishers, both vulnerable to locks and removal. To stop this strategy, you have 1 turn to stop Igor, a 6pt card, and this is at the beginning of the round, if you werent able to stop it, it's almost impossible to recover, since it's basically a 8pt engine, every turn, the equivalent of 4 Ragnaroogs.

 

[Gen_Liu]

As for stopping the combo, that depends on the situation. For swarm decks, you usually want to try to bleed them, until they play their combo pieces.

That's actually what I was thinking, how on earth did DRK3 played that many games an only one player tried to bleed him on turn 2 when he was playing Hemmelfart.

I'm not saying that the combo is legit and the expansion is balanced (clearly CDPR needs to do a lot of work to bring the balance back to normal) but I don't think such an "all in" strategy should work that often while playing a leader that begs to get bled.

I think it's because how quickly Bounties and Freakshow stole the spotlight after launch, that other potential OP cards werent given more attention. Me, personally, i tried a fireswarm deck, but ditched the 3pt engines since they were always removed.

Excellent remark and one that should really attract the attention of CDPR in my opinion.
There is way to many cards that deal 3 damage or more in this game and units with that much str are just unplayable now. I've heard they plan to bring other faction's bronzes at the same level of SY standards and I hope it's part of the change they plan to do. Either that or they just dramatically reduce the overall damage units can do in the game (especially bronzes).

 

[4RM3D]

Moderator's note: I forgot to mention this earlier, so I'll mention it now. Since the latest patch, you can click on the opponent's name to hide it. Please, do so, before taking screenshots and posting them on the forums.

Back to the discussion...

You say its only strong because of surprise factor? Easy to shut down? Please enlighten me how, because ive been steamrolling every player with it, a deck so strong you want your units removed so you can actually put all your cards on board.

I hate to bring up this argument, but playing casual or lower ranked is not a good indication of the competitiveness of a deck. This is besides the perceived strength and whether or not some cards should be tweaked.

Anyhow, I still think the surprise factor plays a big role here. The most extreme example was that of Swim's "you pass you'll lose" deck. As the name suggested, after the opponent's pass in round 2 you play a 100+ points carry-over and win the game. However, if players know of this tactic, you'll basically auto-lose the game.

Ignoring the surprise factor, you still need two turns to set up the combo, meaning it can be disrupted. The weak link is obvious, but not every deck can break it as easily. Bleeding is still the way to go and that's something which isn't done as much as it should.

 

[DRK3]

@Gen_Liu Sorry, but it wasnt just one player who tried to bleed me.

I created the deck today. Played only on Casual, did 10-12 matches. Of those, 7 i got to R3 with all my combo pieces, and won. When i saw players were going for 2-0 i just forfeited, as i was testing the deck.

When i did got to R3, i always had my combo pieces. Wasnt hard, since the deck is only focused for maximum R3, and has thinning R1/2. Besides, i only need Igor and Sigi, plus one scribe (2 in deck).

But yeah, players definitely tried to bleed because Hemmelfart is best for long rounds, and i wasnt pushing at all, when you dont show strength and barely keep up, most players will feel more confident to push.

But i learned using a leader charge before R3 is a good tactic, as the opponent feels you're weakened, when actually i ended up never needing all 3 charges R3, not even having slots for it most times!

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2019

@4RM3D Thanks, i didnt know about that functionality (of hiding names), i'll use that from now on.
I take lots of screenshots, and sometimes when i posted them, i edit the screenies with MSpaint to hide the name, but im just lazy and stopped doing it, but that new thing makes it easier.

Back to topic: im familiar with Swim's "you pass you lose" deck, but i dont think this one falls on the same category, its more resilient. Yes, its vulnerable to bleeding, but i havent built it to keep up on first rounds, that doesnt mean it cant be done.

Also, it's really hard to disrupt the combo - turn 1, i play Sigi to get 9 coins, nothing the opponent can do about it.
-turn 2 i play Igor, if he's destroyed, i revive it (he merits that Renew)
if he's locked, i purify it
cant muzzle a 6pt card, so only vulnerable to Phillipa (but at this time players dont have 6 coins) or some Ardals
banishing a 6pt unit on 1 turn is also hard, maybe Dethlaff with Regis HV
-by turn 3 (or 4/5, if these things happened), i'll have 8scribes next to Igor, and not many ways to deal with them...

 

[4RM3D]

Also, it's really hard to disrupt the combo - turn 1, i play Sigi to get 9 coins, nothing the opponent can do about it.
-turn 2 i play Igor, if he's destroyed, i revive it (he merits that Renew)
if he's locked, i purify it

Sigi, Renew and Kalkstein, that is if you (still) have those in round 3 and if you get that far. Also, running Sigi might not be worth it in an Igor + Scribes swarm deck. Besides, playing Sigi first allows the opponent to setup more cards to eventually disrupt the combo, like stacking up on coins or putting down a sniper. Regardless, the swarm deck is still pretty strong, but it remains gimmicky.

 

[tulamide]

It's alarming to see that something like this, that shouldn't be possible in the first place and makes for a x2 to x3 outcome, is defended as normal, instead of admitting that it needs rework.

Regarding comparisons, although they aren't really comparable: When I get caught stealing, and my sister also got caught stealing, it doesn't make my crime less severe.

 

[DRK3]

I played a few more matches with it and i had more trouble, but always because of bleeding R2, or they actually neutralized my Igor both times (a crazy Francesca dwarf deck)

But when i do start making the scribes (and i always fill the row the same turn i play the 1st), its game over. Lost the 1st time vs a revenant deck, but even that was because i made a huge mistake, otherwise i could have done over 40 (yes, 40!) damage with Ewald Borsodi in 1 turn.

 

[rrc]

@DRK3, (In Henselt's voice) "So, you have been practicing"
This is exactly what I mentioned in the other thread you referred in the OP. I faced this, I gave up after 2 turns. There is no way any magic I could do would win that game. When I faced, the opponent opened with Scribe and I didn't care, next turn, Igor and in the second turn itself (s)he got 4 or 5 scribes with leader charges (coming to think of it, probably the opponent had a couple of coins carry over?). But that is it. I knew the result in the second turn. Nether less, I learned my lesson. Consider Scribe as the most deadly card. Until I saw this, I thought Igor is a junk card and needs a buff. If you think about it, to spawn a bronze card, he spends 9 provisions (for the first card spawned). But after seeing this, I thought 'ooh, this is why he is so costly. He is a crazy bastard'

 

[Breli]

Trynet123 played and "popularized" something like this a week ago or so: Hook 'em. I lost once in seasonal against this combo since I had no small removal at hand ... I have yet to see something like this on ladder though.

However, I am with 4RM3D here. If you know what your opponent is up to and you manage to kill the scribe (not necessarily Igor) before he starts multiplying it is basically game over. If you start to tech against all possible counters it becomes very draw dependent. It is really gimmicky.

That is not to say that Igor should not get nerfed. A cooldown would already balance a lot.

Somehow it is quite sad: A new faction has been released which is very exciting and all you read about it are complaints ...

 

[Gen_Liu]

@Gen_Liu Sorry, but it wasnt just one player who tried to bleed me.

I created the deck today. Played only on Casual, did 10-12 matches. Of those, 7 i got to R3 with all my combo pieces, and won. When i saw players were going for 2-0 i just forfeited, as i was testing the deck.

When i did got to R3, i always had my combo pieces. Wasnt hard, since the deck is only focused for maximum R3, and has thinning R1/2. Besides, i only need Igor and Sigi, plus one scribe (2 in deck).

Okay, the way you explained it I though only one person tried to bleed you which was very surprising indeed lol

That's a cool combo you found here by the way. You're experimenting with decks and are taking paths that are different from the meta, I highly respect that. Peoples like you make the game evlove and go the right way (even when you find a very oppressive combo like that, you allow CDPR to be aware of it and make the appropriate fix).

 

[DRK3]

@Breli Yeah, yesterday after creating and trying the deck, i searched the internet a bit more and found out that video, of which i saw a bit.

From that bit, the streamer said it wasnt OP and didnt need a nerf, which i found disturbing, then again, his version also had the 'bounty set', which is the other thing that makes SY broken atm, so maybe he just wants to see Gwent burn.

Why would anyone play the scribe before Igor? Scribe is 3 pts, almost every single deck has a way of removing it immediately, while Igor is 6pts, only a handful of ways of removing it in 1 turn, specially so early in a round.

 

[4RM3D]

Why would anyone play the scribe before Igor?

There could be various reasons. The most likely is luring out removal, granted you have another copy or a ress. Though, there is another (more) interesting situation, which I dub (from Swim): "you pass, you lose". The idea is that you win round 1 and drop a "garbage" card in round 2 signaling the intend to pass. However, if the opponent doesn't answer the "garbage" card, you can push for a 2-0; that card being Scribes, which isn't always perceived as a threat. In this case, you get a free attempt to stick Scribes on the board. By contrast, playing Igor, definitely tells: I am going all in.

 

[Gen_Liu]

@Breli Yeah, yesterday after creating and trying the deck, i searched the internet a bit more and found out that video, of which i saw a bit.

From that bit, the streamer said it wasnt OP and didnt need a nerf, which i found disturbing, then again, his version also had the 'bounty set', which is the other thing that makes SY broken atm, so maybe he just wants to see Gwent burn.

I don't think the combo is broken either but it HAS to be nerfed for sure.
The idea of the combo is either you disrupt it or you lose, which is against CDPR's phylosophy of game and I can't blame them for that.

On paper there is nothing wrong about this kind of combo, in fact, this is exactly MTG's phylosophy of combo decks but Gwent is not the same game and removal/control tools all come at Ritual speed.
As a result, if you find yourself on R3 with all combo pieces your opponent loses on the spot. On this, the concept is similar to the old carry over Dwarf deck or Margarita/Promote shenanigans that we had in the past.

In a way it's sad that some cool combos disappear because of that but in another, it's better for the overall balance of a game because the only way to make those combos "fair" would be to at least allow players to play cards during their opponent's turn which is way too complicated for Gwent (and even with that, game ending combos in MTG like Tron or Dredge are called "unfair decks" which gives an idea of how ridiculous they are even when you have ways to interract with your opponent's board and hand at instant speed).

So, saying that it's OP is kinda wrong (I say "kinda" because you still need to know what you're up to if you want to counter it, they're still extremely oppressive) but this combo has to be nerfed 1oo%.

And to be completely honest the entire coin system has to be reworked one way or another. Either they change the ability to use coin related abilities multiple times in a single turn (that's the best course of action imo) or they have to make money A LOT harder to obtain (meaning no Sigi and probably Swindle stuck at 4 coins, among other things). As long as they leave the system as it is the game will be open to all kind of game ending combos similar to the one you found.

 

[rrc]

After countless attempts at make a working Cleaver deck, I have at last done it (at least I think so). Cleaver+Igor. I only tried this in casual and I have won all the games I tried (6 consecutive games!). I am 100% sure that this is not competitively viable as this has nearly 0 control. But for casual, this was a fun experiment. My Cleaver has just 11P special card pull ability.

There is no bounty package too. The Executioner, the Brothers and the alchemists are to use the coins if I manage to get TaxCollectors and they will be completely useless if I manage to get Sly Seductresses. I may try this in ranked after a few more tries in casual, but it is just awesome if the engines are set.

 

[DRK3]

@rrc That's pretty nice, i actually got a result i was very proud of with my seductress deck (i use Gudrun). Won yesterday, vs a pro rank, prestige 8 or 9 i think, player, using top tier Svalblod with it, the only control i used R3 was a lock on a priest, while he used all the OP cards and still lost to some innocent 4p bronzes.

I think i've used Igor on like 70% of my Syndicate cards, its probably my favourite SY card, and im about to go and do one last Igor deck, this time focused on Townsfolk.

P.S. also never use the bounty package, i hate it fervorously and its enough for me not to give GG, and even ragequit sometimes