Imlerith: Sabbath

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Should Sabbath be removed from the game?


  • Total voters
    68
It's even funnier that Molegion said he doesn't like Sabbath, turned to the camera, said "Don't play Sabbath kids" and then showed up in the Gwent Open using it :p

As for Damorquis, it almost feels like he resorted to Sabbath after committing major mistakes in every other tournament appearance he's made to date. Kinda cheap, isn't it?
I think he was sarcastic. I played many times against him on pro ladder and he always used sabbath decks.

@topic
This card still needs a hotfix. I don't even mind Sabbath used as a single huge tempo play like in swim's deck but absolutely despise decks being built around it. It usually comes down to you having mandrake or not in hand and if not you can forfit the game after one turn. I generally like the duel mechanics of the card but in it's current from it's way too binary and abusable. Making it dommed and immune to positve effects (buffing effects and adrenaline rush) would be imo a good way to fix it. People could still get a decent amount of value with the card but it wouldn't autowin matches anymore.
 
Making it dommed and immune to positve effects (buffing effects and adrenaline rush) would be imo a good way to fix it. People could still get a decent amount of value with the card but it wouldn't autowin matches anymore.

The way the immune tag works right now, immunity limited to positive effects only could lead to some confusions.

Another way to deal with the card would be to let the effect only trigger a certain amount of times (for example up to 4 times). That way it's still powerful but you need to be more careful with when to play it.
 
I think this cards is totally unbalanced for one good reason : If you don't take it out , you usually lose the game.

I'll get straight to the point : The potential value of this card is unlimited. A Ciri nova will give you 22, Tibor will give you 25 and Echop can give you 25 too. All these card come with huges advantages but have counterparts and can yield you a maximum of 20-25 points.

Eredin , if let alive, even if not buffed, can kill any card with up to 9 power, effectivelly giving +9 point nuke every turn to its user.

So basically, its means that, a non buffed Eredin can give up to 5+ 9+9+9+9, depending on the number of turn played after he is dropped. Which means after two turn he ll already have a value of 20+ points, equivalent to the best gold card in the game, and this without any counterpart to dropping him.

Another points that people disregards often in theorycrafting is that Eredin can be buffed by Wildhunt drakkar. I have done that quite often when the card was released, with Avallach and Eredin leader, you can get up to 5 Drakkar, which means Eredin will come on the board with TEN points +2 armor, making him able to survive almost every basic nuke like Alzur in the game. If you drop a spies before hand, he can't be scorched either. Since he ll kill a hight point target right away, Its means Eredin will have a 20+ point value right off the bat even if he is succesfully locked, for example.

That only for a basic Eredin, but a buffed one with mandrake or any card will usually have 11+ point, resulting in a value of 11+ a maximum of more or less 19 points EACH TURNS (too lazy to do the exact maths, but you get my point). Add resilience to it, game over. Lock can be countered, just as scorch. Imo the only real viable counter to Eredin is mandrake, which instantly remove it from the board and forbid a renew, but really, having to run mandrake and some tutors in EACH deck only to counter a potential Eredin is such a bother, not to mention that sometime you ll still lose to Eredin because you didn't draw your mandrake in time. NO card should have such potential.

Its kills the fun in Arena too, because any deck is susceptible to have it , and there are usually far more gold card in arena deck, and you don't necessarily get the counter to it in your choices. How many game have I won or lost because thanks to this card in Arena, I don't remember.

The best cards to counter it are scorch, lock and mandrake. However, I'v lost several time to this card with deck running Mandrake and lock, because you don't necessarily have it when Imlerith is dropped on the board. Plus the opponent usually have Renew, which diminish grealty the impact of the scorch / nuke card; Not to mention they'll usually drop a spies before so you can't scorch Eredin.

My suggestion is removing the heal+armor bonus on this card, but increasing it base strenght or armor. Also make it invulnerable like werewolf or arachas queen, this way it's cannot be buffed with resilience or point, but it's can't be killed easily by alzur either. A 7 point Eredin will probably kill a couple of 10 point mob, but he ll lose health each time and eventually kill himself during his duel, resulting in a much more controllable point advantage. exemple :

Eredin 7 point : Kill a 10 point mob, stay with 4 point. Then he attack another 10 point mob and deals 4 dmg, then die. Eredin total dmg dealt : 14 which is only one point less than Vanilla Geralt, in an unfarovable situation, so it's really fair.

On the other hand, Eredin would still snowball hard if the enemy doesn't have 8+mob, or if the Eredin user manages to peel down his opponents minions with too much health. But it would still be much easier to deal with.

Also add some mob with armor or invulnerability in every race, or a similar mechanic, so people can defend against nuke deck. Because a nuke deck Eredin would kill hight HP target with scorch , alzur etc, and kill low HP with Eredin each turn which would be totally overkill. We need way to deal with burn deck other than swarming the fields, and atm only Northern realm can really counter that with armor.
 
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^You mean Sabbath. Eredin is not Sabbath.

About locks, Scorch etc - they're partial counters, just like Mandrake. The problem with these counters is that sometimes you just won't draw them, and sometimes you pass and they play Sabbath, Mandrake, Adrenaline Rush, before passing. However they're still partial counters because sometimes the opponent also won't draw their relevant counters (e.g. their locks to remove your lock).

Sabbath in Gwent open made sense imo. If you know you're going to play against someone who's better than you, then running Sabbath becomes defensible. If they have the counter you lose, but if they don't, you win regardless of how much better they are than you. It's also the kind of gotcha card that can win games if the opponent doesn't see it coming. It's not reliable enough to win consistently with, but to win a single game - that's definitely doable.

I dislike Sabbath and would rather see it reworked. It makes games become "did I draw the counter, if I did I win if I didn't I lose". Maybe it's funny to watch, but for the players, it's not that fun since they make so much fewer decisions.
 
My favorite joker of a Sabbath deck includes Aguara + Decree + Renew + Sarah + Frightener + Morvudd (anti-lock), with very few other units (all heal, mandrake, mardroeme, lock, adrenalines) in an attempt to handbuff imlerith to 10 with Aguara early to get a pass, then buff + resilience.

Works great in casual, but doesn't work hardly worth squat in ranked play; even with my 3 unlocks and myriad heals/renew, a simple quick Mandrake by the opponent means i might as well resign immediately myself.
 
Does no one else realize Imlerith is THE Cheat card of the century???

Sure its a Legendary card but if you couldnt draw a Kill spell, you can jus give up the match already...

His duel should not be at turn end cos the owner can easily buff him or debuff opponent Highest card before Imlerith acts.

And his Armor should not stack....i have seen my opponent Imlerith get 9 Armor!!!! How to fight tat?!?!!? Wat gives CDPR?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 
Yes, CDPR should definitely re-consider the time of duel/buff of all engine cards (before or after the turn), and preferably streamline it before Homecoming. Make a sort of a general rule, so that people don't pass a round only to see the opponent's engine buffing and winning the round, as he too passes.
Moreover, MO isn't SUCH a weak faction to need a card like Imlerith. So, I somewhat agree with the suggestion. Although usually, even an Alzur's Thunder is enough to send Imlerith: Sabbath to the graveyard. But it's still a nuisance for Swarm decks.
@lungrisser The card is Imlerith: Sabbath. And since there's already a card named Imlerith, you should edit it in the title.
 
This whole discussion will soon be moot because Sabbath will be changed in Homecoming.
 
oh... i din realise there are 2 imlerith cards...jus started tis game for a week.
yes sabbath is the Cheat card we are talking abt...
though it may be changed soon, it aint soon enuff for us who are climbing the ladder.
until then, looks like gotta pack a couple of Alzur's Thunder always.
 
@lungrisser Yes, Imlerith: Sabbath is the newer, powerful Imlerith card. Mandrake is kind of a must have Silver. It actually was the first Silver card I picked from a keg, but didn't use it until very later, specifically until Imlerith: Sabbath was introduced. You shouldn't make the same mistake.

@4RM3D Do you know how it'll be changed, or are you just speculating? Will Dueling, Mentoring and Create be removed in Homecoming? I'd like for them to get rid of Create at least, very undependable and unrealistic. Been enjoying the 'Pawn Takes King' Arena, too. It's what Gwent should be like, or at least had been missing lately.
 
Do you know how it'll be changed, or are you just speculating?

Those options are not mutually exclusive. I know the card will be changed because the devs told us so, but they haven't given any information about what the new card will look like.
 
I think really he just needs the doomed tag, I used to hate him, and now he's one of my favourite Skellige counters. He's super powerful and game changing but is needed to punish players that don't use removal.

Anyway when he's locked his use is pretty much useless.
 
It's even funnier that Molegion said he doesn't like Sabbath, turned to the camera, said "Don't play Sabbath kids" and then showed up in the Gwent Open using it :p

As for Damorquis, it almost feels like he resorted to Sabbath after committing major mistakes in every other tournament appearance he's made to date. Kinda cheap, isn't it?

cant bear em , join em.

anyway, why should a card require you to use a counter to it in your deck?

removal isnt even a theme of a deck, there is no synergy
 
Lost around 5 games today due to this damn card. Even had Vandergrifts blade on my NR deck due to this card alone but guess what you dont always get to have it on hand. Even if you wanna play Mandrake instead you need more then 1 cards to have easy access to it. What do you propose we do swap our entire decks around due to those cheating decks?

No idea why you have to wait for homecoming to fix it cards that are broken should be fixed asap. Right now it just ruins the game especially since we have ranked play. Seeing those braindead decks on 4,2-4,3 k is just disgraceful.

Anyway no GG for Sabbath decks and personally i just tab out and play my cards on the last second to waste their time. Nice game.

Seriously fix it. Just add the doomed tag to it its not that hard should have been done months ago.
 
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I've since deleted all my decks that have sabbath in them. I never played all in just used for removal but I hate the card so much. I instantly forfeit now if it's played against me.
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Lost around 5 games today due to this damn card. Even had Vandergrifts blade on my NR deck due to this card alone but guess what you dont always get to have it on hand. Even if you wanna play Mandrake instead you need more then 1 cards to have easy access to it. What do you propose we do swap our entire decks around due to those cheating decks?

No idea why you have to wait for homecoming to fix it cards that are broken should be fixed asap. Right now it just ruins the game especially since we have ranked play. Seeing those braindead decks on 4,2-4,3 k is just disgraceful.

Anyway no GG for Sabbath decks and personally i just tab out and play my cards on the last second to waste their time. Nice game.

Seriously fix it. Just add the doomed tag to it its not that hard should have been done months ago.
It just needs rebalanced. Just make the card say. If opponents highest card in under 9 points win the game. Anyway doomed is a must also the heal feature needs removed, while we're at it the card also needs to be non buffable too. Just a pile of trash this card is.
 
The only card in Gwent that has the balls to win you games single-handedly. Why remove it? Although, it most probably will be changed in Homecoming.
 
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