Immersive Sim

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

Immersive Sim

Here is another great video that CDPR could do well to examine for developing Cyberpunk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyTOAlhRHk&t=92s

 

[Suhiira]

We can but hope.

 

[111elf]

I fully agree! Those games are really something else - and even today they feel exciting and fresh. That's why I really hope CP2077 will offer a similar depth in terms of gameplay and gameplay choices.

Also I've never understood the hype around Half-Life and the likes. In terms of shooting mechanics I've always felt that they were way inferior to Unreal, Quake and even Build-Engine games. And when it comes to atmosphere and world building the games named in the video are real mile stones of interactive gaming.

Even Half-Life 2 is imho nowhere near as revolutionary and good as is universally claimed. In fact I find it outright mediocre. It's incredibly linear, the world doesn't feel real but rather like a rail experience by and for game designers (them physics puzzles ) and even graphically it fell short when compared to its competitors. The revolutionary title that year was Far Cry which offered huge open levels, really smart AI and really varied gameplay possibilities (from sniping to sneaking (using silent weapons) to going in guns blazing to using vehicles (boats, buggies, etc).

To cut a long story short I really hope Cyberpunk 2077 will be an immersive sim or offer a similar depths and player freedom!

 

[Decatonkeil]

Mark Brown is fucking boss. His channel and others like Extra Credits, Errant Signal, MrBTongue or, in a very different way, Jim Sterling's are shining examples of quality gaming related youtubers with actual insight. I think these are the ones with the feedback that should inform game makers, not your average let's player.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

or, in a very different way, Jim Sterling's are shining examples of quality gaming related youtubers with actual insight.

Eh, it was good until that...imo, Sterling more capitalizes on being a "celebrity" and can be downright juvenile sometime.

Here is also another great channel (and overlooked) with some good analysis ( though more focused on action games): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWPTiFpzm8559H-9Err59gw

(Maybe there should be a separate thread for this, as they cover a broad range of topics?)

 

[111elf]

Just for the sake of it - enjoy reliving one of the best intros ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4

 

[Decatonkeil]

Eh, it was good until that...imo, Sterling more capitalizes on being a "celebrity" and can be downright juvenile sometime.

Here is also another great channel (and overlooked) with some good analysis ( though more focused on action games): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWPTiFpzm8559H-9Err59gw

(Maybe there should be a separate thread for this, as they cover a broad range of topics?)

I'll accept your recommendation, as always, but I rest my case. I don't think Jim is always spot on in his reviews, but I don't think he capitalizes on that - I think it's obviously a character he plays and he revels in it, and I think it's quite fantastic that he does. But ultimately I think we need Jim and his points and criticism of the current state of the industry and fanboydom and the embarrassing craze that goes between SJWs and "the anti-PC crowd". He would also wank us all gamers who make our own characters in games, which means that by the looks of it, he would wank us all in this forum. That's always a plus. Also spoilers for this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWpKNfExRi4

 

[Suhiira]

Personally I never look at only one review. Each reviewer has their strengths and weaknesses, pet systems, and those they dislike.

 

[Sardukhar]

I would say, stay on topic...but..I'm not sure what the topic is? So.ooo....proceed? I guess?

 

[111elf]

What I have always appreciated about games like Thief, Deus Ex and Gothic are relations between groups of characters or creatures. For me an immersive game world has to follow its own rules as opposed to waiting for the player and reacting only to the player. I find it really immersive when there are things going on even when you're not involved - like security forces clashing with thugs, or hammerites fighting off a horde of undead.

Of course, fights between groups are just one possibility. There might be acts of thievery, shady deals, etc. Dynamic interaction between characters that is triggered by ai behavior, not tied to player interaction and follows certain rules (expected behavior when certain ai entities interact) - that is one very important part of immersive sims for me.

And it opens a lot of possibilities: When you want to weaken a certain faction or can't deal with a strong enemy, you could attempt to lure them into a hostile group of npcs/creatures. When chaos breaks lose in a situation (because for instance a pickpocket has been detected and is chased off by people/guards) that might open up the opportunity to perform some pickpocketing yourself - or to get into a building undetected, ...

 

[Suhiira]

Yeah, it make the game world seem so much more alive if there are at least a few things going on independent of your character. It doesn't have to be a lot, or even constant.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

i'm sure there will be lots of different ways to complete missions, that characteristic is already in some quests in the witcher games

and the devs probably take ideas from the deus ex games, so very likely to see different alternatives to play

 

[111elf]

Yeah, it make the game world seem so much more alive if there are at least a few things going on independent of your character. It doesn't have to be a lot, or even constant.

Imho the important part is however that those events aren't scripted but created by the interaction of different game systems/ai systems. That way it may/will be different with each play through and you never know for sure what's going to happen. It's a pleasant element of randomness

i'm sure there will be lots of different ways to complete missions, that characteristic is already in some quests in the witcher games
and the devs probably take ideas from the deus ex games, so very likely to see different alternatives to play

I really, really hope they'll build upon that principle! It's not a complete must - some games focus on a single gameplay element like shooting mechanics or tactical battles (Baldur's Gate etc) and work really great with that. I personally prefer games that really let you role play through the gameplay itself as well.

Heck - if Deus Ex had character customization like Bloodlines (or even the limited options in Deus Ex Invisible War) it would be damn close to what I would consider the perfect game...

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

Something on coming Prey from Arkane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9UvrqV1O0Y

Are you paying attention, CDPR?

Really like some of core ideas that their games are based on ( and would work perfectly in Cyberpunk).