In defense of this game's combat

[BoboTheMighty]

No, I thought QTE is okay but much better than the current W3 because it is more refined in terms of animations and controls.

That's funny because I remember a video from youtube who played Mordor literally with his eyes closed and a keyboard raised above his head, mashing one button and winning. Even death can be avoided with QTE! If that's good design to you...

Where as W3 is roll, roll, roll, and mash on one button most of the times. It doesn't really matter much the enemy type

And there you have it...you did not bother to learn even the basics. Witcher is not like a typical action game, where the difference between dodge and roll is only direction and length. Each of Geralt's movement maneuvers has a different momentum, animation length, recovery time and speed...and because it does not rely on I-frames, all this results in a far more tactical system that is less about simple reaction and more about planning.
Using roll like you said is a rookie mistake...it serves a defensive purpose of repositioning, but comes with a longer recovery, which makes it a poor choice for offensive.

Action games prioritize three things: control, precision and reaction. Witcher could definitely use improvement on those, but in return it also offer better choreography, combat rhythm and strategy when it comes to player movement. Look at the whole picture here.

W3 almost everything is random both in terms of attacks and targeting

That is a flat out childish hyperbole...except for spinning attack animation, which can be an issue at close range, most of the time it works fine. To me it was definitely an annoyance, but not a game breaking issue.

Then you just mash on one attack button until it dies. It gets worst against monster since most of them have ONE attack. ONE. And no AI whatsoever

Ridiculous...even the simplest critters have several attacks and many come with a variety of movement patterns( ghouls circling, wolves zig-zag, spiders form a circle and attack all together, wraiths teleport from behind, boars move in diagonal patterns, etc...). Witcher is about group combat and more complex enemy movement patterns is prioritized over attack patterns.

There's just no interesting options to play Geralt. You just play one style of avoiding attacks and mashing on one button

That's odd...I charge in on horseback to take out archers and stragglers, examine enemies: formation, direction of movement and distance from one another, position myself properly and come up with movement strategies to outmaneuver them: dodges, rolls, pirouettes and group sidesteps are all important accordingly, use crossbow for feints, interrupting their attacks and bringing down flying monsters, switch between variety of different potions when differentiating between signs, sword attacks and types of enemies, deflect arrows, direct combat tempo based on my adrenaline level, manage my stamina, block and parry, use group aggro for control of enemy movement and as "magnet" to lure them to a specific point, then follow up with bombs and whirl, heavy attacks and rend for isolated targets, alternate between ten different spells, use signs on environment when possible.

 

[SigilFey]

I think those that dislike TW3's combat are missing some of it's key features. And, to be fair, it is really fast-paced -- not very easy to recognize all of the things that are happening all of the time.

I suppose mashing away on an attack is a valid way of getting through, but you can do the same with a lot of games. I had a buddy that played through Assassin's Creed 2 by mashing the fast attack. He played the whole game that way and finished it. I finally asked him why he never used any reversals or timed attacks, and he looked at me like, "Wha?" I took on a bunch of heavy guards, using the wrist-blades for double executions, stealing the heavy weapons from them by fighting them bare-fisted, using timed block/reversals for instant kills, and managed to end the fight against about 10 of them in under 40 seconds. As he said -- that was like a whole new game! I think it's the same situation here. It may not be that you need to master the combat system to win, but doing so opens up a whole world of coolness.

1.) You must play defensively. The combat relies primarily on maneuvering constantly to set yourself up for a quick flurry of attacks, then backing off again. If you dive in like playing Diablo or Shadow of Mordor, you'll be deadized quickly.

2.) Attacks are usually only 1-3 at a time before dodging/rolling/blocking. Mashing fast-attack may eventually win a fight, but it will probably take 3x longer than timing strikes. Normally, I find that approach either results in a stalemate (neither side delivering or taking damage), or gets Geralt flanked and perished (especially when fighting groups of drowners, nekkers, or wolves).

3.) Enemies do not really have clear "tells", like Dark Souls or the WB games. This means it's up to the player to feel the rhythm of the combat and know in advance when the next attack will land. You cannot block heavy attacks, so knowing when to block and when to dodge is critical. Just like knowing when to dodge and when to roll makes a huge difference.

Once the patterns begin to start becoming more clear, I find that the frenetic action on the screen is mostly illusion. I tend to move at a pretty slow pace compared to DS or Mordor, tapping a few buttons every now and then, and mostly repositioning myself to keep enemies from flanking.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Yes, I noticed that as well from watching a lot of videos...they excessively dodge( which really does look clumsy, when looking as a separate action( compared to almost all action games and the kind they showed in previews), when they should slowly walk and observe.
I think CDPR underestimates how many people are really willing to never learn how to play the game properly( and reduce it to roll, quen and mashing light attacks) and then complain about it, than put some effort and find themselves enjoying it.
Mods like Combat Evolved leave you no choice: learn or die.

 

[Nolenthar]

Mods like Combat Evolved leave you no choice: learn or die.

The pity is obviously that you need those mods in the first place to get this feeling in death march

 

[the_eternal_fire]

Still better than dark souls 3, which is basically just a rolling simulator. Thanks for ruining poise, FROM SOFTWARE.

 

[Garrison72]

Still better than dark souls 3, which is basically just a rolling simulator. Thanks for ruining poise, FROM SOFTWARE.

Both games can be a rolling simulator. There's little penalty for Geralt to roll his way to victory. CDPR wants a way out so their system isn't too uncompromising. It was the same with TW2. That's why we get quen and rolling.

 

[the_eternal_fire]

Rolling should cost stamina, this would force people to do dodge attacks instead.

 

[Exentryk]

Rolling should cost stamina, this would force people to do dodge attacks instead.

It kinda does as rolling stops your stamina recharge.

 

[essenthy]

just give me a faster dodge, you can keep everything else, just that PLEASE CDPR, why do i have to rely on a mod to enjoy the combat :'(

 

[Holgar82]

just give me a faster dodge, you can keep everything else, just that PLEASE CDPR, why do i have to rely on a mod to enjoy the combat :'(

Even a skill that increases the speed of dodge and/or roll would be nice. Like TW2, it could help the feeling of character progression.

 

[PillarBiter]

Even a skill that increases the speed of dodge and/or roll would be nice. Like TW2, it could help the feeling of character progression.

This. The skill for the dodge as it is now is useless. It should be adding +50% speed or distance.

The only dissapointment so far from B&W is that we've not seen a skill rework. All skills still do the same.
Mayeb in patch 1.20, but very unlikely.

 

[Nolenthar]

Increasing the speed of dodge is pretty fairly straightforward with modding though. But changing the speed multiplier often ends up altering the balance even more.

 

[the_eternal_fire]

That's why I said it should cost stamina, instead of just preventing it from regenerating. To be honest, I personally rather dodge attacks, cause it makes counterattacking a lot easier.

 

[SigilFey]

Both games can be a rolling simulator. There's little penalty for Geralt to roll his way to victory. CDPR wants a way out so their system isn't too uncompromising. It was the same with TW2. That's why we get quen and rolling.

I hardly ever roll. Actually, I tend to use block more than anything else.

Rolling should cost stamina, this would force people to do dodge attacks instead.

Yes. Wholeheartedly agree. That would at least herd players away from abusing it.

This. The skill for the dodge as it is now is useless. It should be adding +50% speed or distance.

The only dissapointment so far from B&W is that we've not seen a skill rework. All skills still do the same.
Mayeb in patch 1.20, but very unlikely.

I wouldn't want the speed to change. For me, it's all part of the rhythm I was talking about. Faster dodging would feel like an misplaced down-beat, so to speak. It takes away the need to plan your moves in advance (which is my favorite part of the combat system).

 

[RepHope]

I liked some parts of W3's combat but there were definitely some issues. I had problems with targeting, with Geralt drawing his sword when I wanted to just keep running (thank God that's getting corrected), and with some rather simplistic enemy AI. Also wished they would've made switching Signs easier like mapping them to keys on PC, or letting you switch with the D-Pad on Xbone. That said I loved experimenting with potions, oils, and bombs, and I loved the atlernate Sign forms. I think W3 is a pretty solid foundation to keep building on for whatever happens next.

 

[Exentryk]

Yrden (pre-nerf) did somewhat make Geralt feel like a superfast mutant running circles around enemies. It was such a good ability. Really sucks that the devs nerfed it.

http://gfycat.com/FelineShadyGermanshorthairedpointer

 

[essenthy]

I hardly ever roll. Actually, I tend to use block more than anything else.



Yes. Wholeheartedly agree. That would at least herd players away from abusing it.



I wouldn't want the speed to change. For me, it's all part of the rhythm I was talking about. Faster dodging would feel like an misplaced down-beat, so to speak. It takes away the need to plan your moves in advance (which is my favorite part of the combat system).

dodge is so freaking slow that the animation does not even fit, geralt look literally " floating " in the air while dodging, they clearly slowed it toward the end of development without changing the animation

ther's no need to plan whatso ever, let alone any form of difficulty especially one year since release, anyone should be able to faceroll his way on anything by now, the game didnt gain any difficulty but all players gained skill, why not add some more rythme to this sneezy combats , make NPCs move/attack faster while we're at it

 

[SigilFey]

I liked some parts of W3's combat but there were definitely some issues. I had problems with targeting, with Geralt drawing his sword when I wanted to just keep running (thank God that's getting corrected), and with some rather simplistic enemy AI. Also wished they would've made switching Signs easier like mapping them to keys on PC, or letting you switch with the D-Pad on Xbone. That said I loved experimenting with potions, oils, and bombs, and I loved the atlernate Sign forms. I think W3 is a pretty solid foundation to keep building on for whatever happens next.

Signs are mapped to keys by default, or you can assign them to whatever manually if you choose. Basically, I did a playthrough using a controller and found that to be an overall more intuitive system. Now...I'm back to using mouse and keyboard as I wanted to troubleshoot something and just kept playing that way.

Both systems have their pros and cons. M+K is certainly better for menus/inventory and general looking around. I prefer the controller for combat, despite the lack of hotkeys.

 

[Exentryk]

Also wished they would've made switching Signs easier like mapping them to keys on PC, or letting you switch with the D-Pad on Xbone

Consoles have L2+left/right to change Signs. On PC, there is an even better system via macros or by editing the input file directly. I use a DS4 controller on PC, and have my signs set up as R2+X=Quen, R2+O=Axii, etc. I do feel that the devs should have implemented this instant casting system for everyone, as it makes the combat a lot more fluid.

 

[SigilFey]

Consoles have L2+left/right to change Signs. On PC, there is an even better system via macros or by editing the input file directly. I use a DS4 controller on PC, and have my signs set up as R2+X=Quen, R2+O=Axii, etc. I do feel that the devs should have implemented this instant casting system for everyone, as it makes the combat a lot more fluid.

Probably just my playstyle, but I don't find myself firing off different signs in rapid succession. I normally only have two or three signs I depend on. Moving my finger 1.5 inches to tap a number key doesn't really slow me down that much. On controller, I tend to use the quick-menu option much more often to select signs / bombs / x-bow.