In game character Perspective!

[animalfather]

i just want to say that i absolutely hated Deus Ex Mankind Divided. Hate seeing that game mentioned in the article. the game felt like a bratslava sausage ducktaped to a johhny mnenoic dvd.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Welllllllllll....sort of.

It's how others SEE YOU.

...

This is me tipping my hat without you seeing it.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

The player can’t see their character in 2020. Style is a mechanical concept there. It’s of no use to the game that you stare at your character.

The player can’t see Night City in 2020. The city is a mechanical concept there. It’s of no use to the game that you stare at the city.

Spoiler

The player can't see weapons in 2020. Weapons are a mechanical concept there. It's of no use to the game that you stare at any weapons.

 

[Sardukhar]

The player can’t see Night City in 2020. The city is a mechanical concept there. It’s of no use to the game that you stare at the city.

Spoiler

The player can't see weapons in 2020. Weapons are a mechanical concept there. It's of no use to the game that you stare at any weapons.

Actually, there are multiple examples of both in 2020. And they are very useful. Dozens to hundreds of images, pretty handy for orientation. In fact, the..wait a minute. Are you trolling, Lis? Dooooo you want an infraction for trolling? BECAUSE I HAVE THOSE.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Actually, there are multiple examples of both in 2020. And they are very useful. Dozens to hundreds of images, pretty handy for orientation. In fact, the..wait a minute. Are you trolling, Lis? Dooooo you want an infraction for trolling? BECAUSE I HAVE THOSE.

Oh, we also have images of clothing and armor. You're just defending the possibility of CDPR having a FPS Cyberpunk game.

 

[Snowflakez]

And the PnP is great! It's lots of fun! It inspired the CRPG! So no, you may like TPP, but it is in no way essential to a RPG or CRPG.

I didn't say it was? In fact, I was very careful to say "very important to me."

In a game that allows you to create your own character (and specifically in that case - I don't care when it comes to fixed protags) I consider the immersion and sense of "I'm playing this character" I get from TPP critical. That is, I consider it critical to my enjoyment of the game. Not necessarily your enjoyment, or bob's enjoyment, or kofe's enjoyment.

Having a choice would be ideal, though.

 

[Sardukhar]

Oh, we also have images of clothing and armor. You're just defending the possibility of CDPR having a FPS Cyberpunk game.

Sure we do. But not OF YOUR CHARACTER. That's a different combination you must assemble in your imagination. And even so, the pertinent bits of that, in a Role Playing Game, and not Barbie Dress Up, are the stats on those items.

Because that's how the world reacts to you.

Which is the -point- of Style Over Substance. It's about control and success. It's why the game has the Fashion Sense and Personal Hygiene skills. And the attractiveness and empathy stats.

Because those are tools. You might think your character looks -awesome- in plaid dungarees, but you aren't gonna get into that EBM event wearing them. Maybe if your FS was 8+ and your ATTR was 10. Maybe.

Again, in Cyberpunk, looking good is part of the job. It's a skill. It's not there for player vanity - which is the big reason people are annoyed about the possibility of FPP only.

And it's fine to be annoyed, within reason, just don't get confused that it's a Cyberpunk principle that you should always look your idea of good. Not at all.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

The player can’t see Night City in 2020. The city is a mechanical concept there. It’s of no use to the game that you stare at the city.

Spoiler

The player can't see weapons in 2020. Weapons are a mechanical concept there. It's of no use to the game that you stare at any weapons.

Now you are cutting corners and I think you know it. Those are objects that you play the game with, your own admiration of your characters visage is not.

But in principle you are right, even if you might’ve meant it as a snark.

 

[Sardukhar]

I didn't say it was? In fact, I was very careful to say "very important to me.".

Actually...in response to Lis, "Did you even read Cyberpunk 2020. How you character looks like is essential. It's all about style over substance." you said, and I quoted, "I'm not sure how I could have forgotten about that"

Which, yeah, was you supporting the idea that it's essential to Cyberpunk 2020, how your character looks.

It's not. Both because the game is perfectly playable as a poorly dressed clown and because Breaking The Rules is the last rule.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Sure we do. But not OF YOUR CHARACTER.

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because clothing and armor are mechanical concept.

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because clothing and armor have no pictures in CP2020.

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because you can't see your character.

What's the next argument going to be?

Those are objects that play the game with, your own admiration of your characters visage is not.

Armor and clothing affect your attractiveness and the damage you can take, it doens't affect your enemies but it does affect npcs and the main character.

 

[Snowflakez]

Actually...in response to Lis, "Did you even read Cyberpunk 2020. How you character looks like is essential. It's all about style over substance." you said, and I quoted, "I'm not sure how I could have forgotten about that"

Which, yeah, was you supporting the idea that it's essential to Cyberpunk 2020, how your character looks.

It's not. Both because the game is perfectly playable as a poorly dressed clown and because Breaking The Rules is the last rule.

I was just saying I'd forgotten about how important style as a whole was to Cyberpunk, and that I didn't try to factor it in to my argument in any way (I wouldn't have just said "it's essential.") I haven't played 2020, so I wouldn't be able to say what's essential or not essential either way.

Besides, that was one off-hand comment compared to my larger argument.

I'm glad that you at least acknowledge (rightfully) that we would have every right to be peeved if CDPR decided to go FPP only. Player vanity isn't a bad thing by any means - not inherently, anyway (that's a whole 'nother discussion...)

As it stands, of course, I'm not in any way upset with CDPR. This is all rumor and they've done nothing to earn my frustration. E3 will likely give us the answers we want.

 

[Sardukhar]

I'm glad that you at least acknowledge (rightfully) that we would have every right to be peeved if CDPR decided to go FPP only.

Oh, I didn't say that. And I wouldn't, since people thinking they have every right to be upset around here has then immediately led them to thinking they can break the rules. And then doing so. Repeatedly.

I meant it was more that being peeved because you are disappointed is of course perfectly understandable.

 

[Sardukhar]

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because clothing and armor are mechanical concept.

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because clothing and armor have no pictures in CP2020.

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because you can't see your character.

What's the next argument going to be?

I'm not even sure what you are saying here, I guess? CP2077 certainly doesn't -need- TPP, or FPP for that matter, but after that I don't really get where you are going? And I can't tell if you are trolling or not, sooo..gonna move away I think.

Everyone remember to be polite and engaging and not repeat yourselves, though. If this starts to look like a flamewar or nonconstructive, then bye bye.

 

[Snowflakez]

Oh, I didn't say that. And I wouldn't, since people thinking they have every right to be upset around here has then immediately led them to thinking they can break the rules. And then doing so. Repeatedly.

I meant it was more that being peeved because you are disappointed is of course perfectly understandable.

"And it's fine to be annoyed, within reason..."

This is what I'm referring to, sorry if I misunderstood.

Just to be clear, when I say "we have the right to be peeved" (assuming this is true, which it probably isn't) I'm not saying we have the right to be dicks. But if I'm frustrated that CDPR makes the game FPP and that is later confirmed, I'm going to explain why I dislike that (politely).

Example:

"I hate FPP and CDPR is full of idiots who should all die in a fire, and anyone who buys the game can follow suit."

vs.

"I don't like FPP because X, Y and Z."

That's sorta the point in discussions. I tell you what I don't like, you tell me what you don't like, and we discuss why we feel that way. No?

 

[Sardukhar]

That's sorta the point in discussions. I tell you what I don't like, you tell me what you don't like, and we discuss why we feel that way. No?

Of course! This is ideal. I just wanted to clarify for anyone reading my statement. It's come back to bite me in the past.

 

[walkingdarkly]

2077 needs to have a third person view so I can see how slick and awesome my character is...wearing a basic white T, leather jacket, pair of faded jeans and some old fashion sneaks.


Cau

because Breaking The Rules is the last rule.

And just for you Sard,

The Rules
1. Style Over Substance
2. Attitude is Everything
3. Always take it to the Edge(and live there)
4. Break the Rules

 

[Snowflakez]

Of course! This is ideal. I just wanted to clarify for anyone reading my statement. It's come back to bite me in the past.

I getcha. I forgot at times that you're a mod and have overlords.

Out of curiosity, and this is just because I haven't played 2020 myself, exactly how often have you found that your players really put a lot of effort into vanity stuff? How much time do they spend coming up with descriptions of their outfits, accessories, what have you? I'm curious whether or not this fascination with looks (among many gamers) stems from PnPs.

In my experience with D&D, customization was important, but it wasn't really ongoing. Your look didn't change that often, so you tend to put a lot of effort into that initial creation, and then you just refer back to it (I brush aside my gray cloak, etc.) later.

What's the next argument going to be?

Armor and clothing affect your attractiveness and the damage you can take, it doens't affect your enemies but it does affect npcs and the main character.

Lis, why are you getting so spicy?

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Lis, why are you getting so spicy?

For the same reason you're also being spicy. We both want a great game that pleases the majority of Cyberpunk 2020 and RPG fans.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

animalfather

See how much activity this forum and /r/cyberpunkgame is having after the FPS rumors?

It's a great strategy to generate people's interest through rumors and fear.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because clothing and armor are mechanical concept.

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because clothing and armor have no pictures in CP2020.

Cyberpunk 2077 doens't need a Third Person view because you can't see your character.

What's the next argument going to be?

Cyberpunk 2077 doesn’t need third person because it might cause unwanted narcissism in the playerbase, people starting to refer to themselves in third person like some weird British aristocrats.

No, but seriously... The original argument was to the comment on what would the characters physical aspects matter if the player couldn’t see them, and the argument was that there is no need for the player see them because the player looking at himself does nothing to the game.

The argument was not about not needing third person, just about the effect of it being absent.

I have made the case for 3rd person preference many times for being a better fit fot RPG mechanics. I have no cause to argue for its exclusion, but it not being there is not the end of things if otherwise shit’s in order. Vanity features, while certainly nice, are expendable.

Armor and clothing affect your attractiveness and the damage you can take, it doens't affect your enemies but it does affect npcs and the main character.

Yes?

It can affect enemies too. Having intimidating outfit might well cause loss of morale in weak or drugged individuals.