In game character Perspective!

[atomowyturysta]

It depends on how it is implemented, first person games with body awareness and adjustable FOV do exist, even by smaller developers than CDPR. It is also possible to include the ability to lean, so you can look around corners. The direction of enemies outside the FOV can be detected with the help of audio cues, but when your character is hit, games usually also give a visual indication of where the attack came from. I guess it is also a matter of what input device you are using, because with a mouse one can look around very quickly, controllers might be worse. Melee can be good enough in a game where "acrobatic" moves like spins and rolls are not needed in combat, it is probably not going to be the primary focus, but things like blocking or dodging should work fine in FPP.

Well. Swords, knives, fists and shit ARE the THING in PnP Cyberpunk game. FPP is tragic in that respect. Guns and shit are also the thing and TPP is "good enough" and FPP is "questionably better". The cyber augumentations of a typical CP character means that acrobatic, dodging and shit are also the thing, and FPP is tragic in that respect unless you're a nolife monkey who spend life on playing Titanfall. Still. FPP gives verey restricted view. You can say TPP gives too much but that's not true. TPP in a way simulates what people forget IS a part of viewing process. EYE MOVEMENT. Peple usually have around 100 degree vision cone but volountary and unvolountary eye movement brings that closer to 180 degree. Even a slight head adjustment together with that eye movement brings that number to around 200 degree vision. In FPP, no matter how much you love it, you are a floating (not even walking) TV with restricted 60 degree vision and impaired movement. And you don't look cool, what is massively important in a cyberpunk game with character customization. You DON'T LOOK AT ALL I don't say NO FPP. Let's have it. But work first on TPP than the devs can easily implement FPP. The other way round won't work that easily. And the Devs promised mixed TPP/FPP and character customization. FPP exclusive game may give the devs stupid ideas about getting rid of character customization. From here we are very close to getting DeusEx 3, not CP2077.
But, again, the Devs promised said mixed TPP/FPP but it does not have to mean both perspectives. It may mean a hybrid system. We'll see.
I personally don't believe in any of CP2077 leaks. CDPR non disclosure agreement is scary. There were no leaks while W3 development, there were no leaks for 6 years of CP2077 development, only now some half assed articles by people clearly not knowing what they are writing about claiming "A source". Bullshit

 

[Snowflakez]

It dies for me - completely. I can't play First Person, or at the very least not for very long. Getting through Firewatch was a pain in the ass already, and that was seriously slow sauce.

And I gave up on FallOut 3 because the third person view was a joke... I really, really wanted to play that one.

I hear you. And it would "die" for me too, for reasons I've previously stated. My point is that it wouldn't die for everyone, or even the majority, so making sweeping statements like "If CDPR makes the game FPP only it will be dead on arrival" are not terribly accurate. It will definitely still be a great success, as long as the game itself is "good."

 

[Sardukhar]

And the Devs promised...
But, again, the Devs promised

See, this is why we don't have any hard news from CDPR about Cyberpunk. Those "promises" are subject to developmental changes. Of course they are. Your plans on starting a huge project are not going to match what you end up with.

What they would -like- to do 5 years ago and what they end up doing in reality aren't going to be the same.

Getting excited about promises as opposed to hard, current reality is why people are left disappointed.


Also, merging this thread with the viewpoint thread.

 

[Snowflakez]

Well. Swords, knives, fists and shit ARE the THING in PnP Cyberpunk game. FPP is tragic in that respect. Guns and shit are also the thing and TPP is "good enough" and FPP is "questionably better". The cyber augumentations of a typical CP character means that acrobatic, dodging and shit are also the thing, and FPP is tragic in that respect unless you're a nolife monkey who spend life on playing Titanfall. Still. FPP gives verey restricted view. You can say TPP gives too much but that's not true. TPP in a way simulates what people forget IS a part of viewing process. EYE MOVEMENT. Peple usually have around 100 degree vision cone but volountary and unvolountary eye movement brings that closer to 180 degree. Even a slight head adjustment together with that eye movement brings that number to around 200 degree vision. In FPP, no matter how much you love it, you are a floating (not even walking) TV with restricted 60 degree vision and impaired movement. And you don't look cool, what is massively important in a cyberpunk game with character customization. You DON'T LOOK AT ALL I don't say NO FPP. Let's have it. But work first on TPP than the devs can easily implement FPP. The other way round won't work that easily. And the Devs promised mixed TPP/FPP and character customization. FPP exclusive game may give the devs stupid ideas about getting rid of character customization. From here we are very close to getting DeusEx 3, not CP2077.
But, again, the Devs promised said mixed TPP/FPP but it does not have to mean both perspectives. It may mean a hybrid system. We'll see.
I personally don't believe in any of CP2077 leaks. CDPR non disclosure agreement is scary. There were no leaks while W3 development, there were no leaks for 6 years of CP2077 development, only now some half assed articles by people clearly not knowing what they are writing about claiming "A source". Bullshit

I agree with a lot of this, particularly the bit about FPP being easier to implement after TPP is finished.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Sardukhar Perhaps we can start all over again and stop fighting? I'm gonna send you this gift as a sign of our friendship:

 

[Sardukhar]

Sardukhar Perhaps we can start all over again and stop fighting? I'm gonna send you this gift as a sign of our friendship:

That...is a thing of beauty. I'll be right back..after a short bathroom break. To..relieve myself.

 

[Ripsaw99]

I never post on these forums but have been a huge CDprojectred fan since witcher 1. Probably played Witcher 3 five times. I am hoping beyond hope the rumors are not true as to it being a first person perspective game. I know some people may enjoy that, but in my personal opinion I HATE first person games, no matter how well made. I couldn't get through Dishonored or Prey or FarCry5. Especially in an RPG, the witcher 3 was the perfect design for that type of play. If first person is an option we can ignore, as in skyrim, I guess that is fine, but I can not even think of a design decision for Cyberpunk that would be more devastatingly disappointing than having it be a first person game. Please say it isn't so! ... for everyone saying 3rd person shooters suck, the Division was awesome and very well done - just one example of many. I have a recurring nightmare of CDProject Red merging with Arcane and beginning to churn out more 1st person pseudo RPG shooter/RPGs in interesting settings with nauseating FPP, that get great reviews and financial success, while we all secretly pine for the magic and love infused into the development of the witcher 3, the last great RPG

 

[Riven-Twain]

Aww, a Sardukushion.

 

[Suhiira]

Aww, a Sardukushion.

I'm going to have very strange dreams tonight after seeing that.

 

[sv3672]

I have a recurring nightmare of CDProject Red merging with Arcane and beginning to churn out more 1st person pseudo RPG shooter/RPGs in interesting settings with nauseating FPP, that get great reviews and financial success, while we all secretly pine for the magic and love infused into the development of the witcher 3, the last great RPG

While it is understandable if someone does not want to play an FPP game because of issues like motion sickness (although that can often be avoided with good design and a simple FOV slider), or just preferring TPP in general, I do not think the camera perspective has much to do with a game being a good RPG or not. In that regard, CP2077 can still be an improvement over TW3 even if the rumor was true, which is doubtful to begin with.

 

[SigilFey]

I never post on these forums but have been a huge CDprojectred fan since witcher 1. Probably played Witcher 3 five times. I am hoping beyond hope the rumors are not true as to it being a first person perspective game. I know some people may enjoy that, but in my personal opinion I HATE first person games, no matter how well made. I couldn't get through Dishonored or Prey or FarCry5. Especially in an RPG, the witcher 3 was the perfect design for that type of play. If first person is an option we can ignore, as in skyrim, I guess that is fine, but I can not even think of a design decision for Cyberpunk that would be more devastatingly disappointing than having it be a first person game. Please say it isn't so! ... for everyone saying 3rd person shooters suck, the Division was awesome and very well done - just one example of many. I have a recurring nightmare of CDProject Red merging with Arcane and beginning to churn out more 1st person pseudo RPG shooter/RPGs in interesting settings with nauseating FPP, that get great reviews and financial success, while we all secretly pine for the magic and love infused into the development of the witcher 3, the last great RPG

Welcome to the Forums, Ripsaw99!

You're voicing the sentiments of a lot of players. I personally hope that it's a toggle. I find being forced to shift perspectives to be incredibly jarring. Skyrim always bugged the heck out of me by auto-switching to 3rd-person when riding or transforming into a werewolf / vampire lord.

Given the choice, I'll play pretty much any game in 3rd-person if the option is there. I love seeing my characters in action. (Except for Beth games. Those, I play exclusively in 1st-person, but mostly because their 3rd-person is so inaccurate and clunky.)

 

[JarlSpelly]

Alright. I am here because the rumors of First person only has scared the shit out of me.

Immersion
FPP: There are less problems to solve when it comes to map and dungeon design. Less immersion because you need a HUD
TPP: No HUD if the hud elements are put into the game world a la DeadSpace, or less genious as in God of War (the latest one). You connect with your character, since you can see it interact with the game-world. You also find a reason for items outside of getting funny comments from your garish choices and the stats they afford you.

Winner: TPP

Player control
FPP: best snap and twitch aim. Probably possible in TPP, but no game has of yet done it well enough to rival CounterStrikeGO
TPP: Best for melee, since the lack of sensory input means you have no spatial awareness outside of sight and sound.

Winner: Depends.

Camera control
FPP: the camera needs to be affected by explosions, rolling around on the floor, etc. Very disorienting, and often a source of simulation sickness. Lack of this reinforces the "floating camera" phenomena.
TPP: You can let the character be affected by anything without needed to wrestle the control of the camera from the hands of the player.

Winner: As long as you allow X,Y,Z position to be dictated by the player, then TPP wins by a massive margine.



What I would prefer is a player choice of the mix between FPP and TPP.
What I would like to see is full player camera control. X,Y,Z position and FOV. And additionally the ability to set what mode automatically goes to what perspective and XYZFOV position. Ie, TPP over the shoulder when using pistols. FPP when using the iron-sights on rifles and snipers. TPP over the head when using melee, and Further Z distance than when using pistols. Exploration over the shoulder, but further back than when holding pistols

If there is no such options for the player. Then I would want a fixed camera that never changes except when scoping in. The character is positioned so that the head is below the central line of the monitor, and that the z distance is far enough out so that I can see the details of my character, but the character takes up less than 6% of the screen. Scoping in will scope to where I am aiming, not where my character is aiming.

There are examples of TPP done right with guns. Copy those.

And please, add a DeadSpace HUD system for TPP.

This is the only reason I created an account here. Because I have had faith that my gaming hobby, while tarnished by EA and so many games lately, was in safe hands with CDPR. But these rumors made me really scared that we would get another Kingdom come deliverance. A game, while very good, makes me willing to pay a russian hacker for a TPP cheat/mod.

Please keep player agency and player choice at the forefront. Camera is the main window through which we engage with the world. Allow us the option to set it to our specific preferences, and you will have gone a long way to make people stay with the game long term. Humans do not like losing control. Please realize this.

PLEASE!

 

[Sardukhar]

Please keep player agency and player choice at the forefront. Camera is the main window through which we engage with the world. Allow us the option to set it to our specific preferences, and you will have gone a long way to make people stay with the game long term. Humans do not like losing control. Please realize this.

PLEASE!

Wellll..depends on the human. I prefer First Person for immersion and control, (again why competitive shooters are all FPP), Third person for melee and cool looks.

I also quite enjoy Kingdom Come Deliverance. Bugs and all.

TPP is very much the vogue nowadays, but it mostly comes down to what people are comfortable with. Back in the days of Unreal, Doom, Quake, Halo, Half-Life, I read a lot of these same arguments against Third Person. Then Gears of Wars comes out and opinions change.

Rely on CDPR to make a good game, but realise not everything in it is going to be your preference. Or mine. Or anyone's!

I think if the game is excellent overall, people will stay with it regardless and like Gears of War, adapt their preferences.

 

[Snowflakez]

I think if the game is excellent overall, people will stay with it regardless and like Gears of War, adapt their preferences.

Sometimes its not a matter of "Adapting preferences," though. It's a matter of "I literally cannot stomach this."

Of course, I'm apparently in the minority, but it's always nice to see a company cater to a large portion of their playerbase.

I think JarlSpelly made some pretty fair points. TPP definitely excels at a lot of things, just as FPP excels at a lot of things. Personally, I prefer to play games that utilize the things TPP excels at and don't prefer games that utilize the things FPP excels at. You can blend the two, and flip these things on their head, of course, but generally each perspective does certain things very well.

It would be a mistake to assume anybody can enjoy any viewpoint as long as a game is good. This is not so. I respect Ubisoft's work on the Far Cry series, and objectively speaking, I recognize that they are good games. However, I do not enjoy them at all and it's not because I have an inherent dislike for shooters - it's largely because of FPP.

Same goes for Battlefield, Overwatch, Call of Duty and others. Deus Ex was OK because it was slower-paced and I didn't have to move around so much. This is largely because of the FPP.

To demonstrate that there are exceptions to every rule, I loved Kingdom Come: Deliverance. And that was one of the greatest examples of classic RPG mechanics modernized that I can think of. So... Anything's possible.

In the end, it'll come down to what CDPR is focused on. Design philosophy will determine many aspects of the game, of course, and player viewpoint options (or the lack thereof) is one of them. If they want a shooty bang-bang action game that's lighter on the RPG elements, FPP makes much more sense in my opinion. That doesn't mean it'll be a bad game, it just won't be my thing.

 

[Nicole28]

Throwing in my lot in with the third-person view!

Please devs! Add in this option! Doesn't matter if it's a primary one or a secondary one!

I suffer from motion-sickness and cannot play FPP games, unless the camera is very steady. There are not many triple-AAA type TPP RPGs in the market, with full character customization and choices. Last one was Fallout 4, and before that Dragon Age Inquisition. (There is Mass Effect Andromeda, but I heard that one was too dumpy). Please let everything go right for fans of these variety of RPGs!

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Throwing in my lot in with the third-person view!

Please devs! Add in this option! Doesn't matter if it's a primary one or a secondary one!

I suffer from motion-sickness and cannot play FPP games, unless the camera is very steady. There are not many triple-AAA type TPP RPGs in the market, with full character customization and choices. Last one was Fallout 4, and before that Dragon Age Inquisition. (There is Mass Effect Andromeda, but I heard that one was too dumpy). Please let everything go right for fans of these variety of RPGs!

I wouldn't worry if I were you, there is currently 4 things that make me believe CP2077 will have a Third Person Perspective:

1. CDPR said back in 2013 that the game would have a mix of TPP/FPP
2. CDPR hired lots of people from the division which is TPP
3. CDPR's president mentioned a month ago that the game wouldn't have a predefined character (so it doens't make sense to have a character creation with a First Person only perspective
4. CDPR has reached a huge demographic of gamers who like Third Person Perspective RPGs by selling almost 10 million copies of The Witcher 3, so making a FPS only Cyberpunk game could make them lose said demographic

 

[Maelcom404]

I wouldn't worry if I were you, there is currently 4 things that make me believe CP2077 will have a Third Person Perspective:

1. CDPR said back in 2013 that the game would have a mix of TPP/FPP
2. CDPR hired lots of people from the division which is TPP
3. CDPR's president mentioned a month ago that the game wouldn't have a predefined character (so it doens't make sense to have a character creation with a First Person only perspective
4. CDPR has reached a huge demographic of gamers who like Third Person Perspective RPGs by selling almost 10 million copies of The Witcher 3, so making a FPS only Cyberpunk game could make them lose said demographic

Also, you're supposed to drive vehicules in it (they hired people for it) and FPP driving is clunky as hell.
A last part on the Moon? Orbital "confirmed", which is cool, but rather "away" from the "We want to keep the game at street level", won't complain tho if we have to see a lot of CP world.

Customisation would be kinda "meh", since you'd care way less about your character since to don't see him (excepted in a bunch of cinematics), mostly that "customisation" is a core feature in Cyberpunk.

If it's true, I really hope the main story will deliver, not some post-cyberpunk Deus Ex boringness "U no, corporations aren't that bad after all lol".
The wall running, while cool in Titanfall, may be a boring gimmick in Cyberpunk (same, not bad, but come on...), I hope it's just some feature added by a random implant or whatever, not something common and "ok, so it's 2077 and now we fight like the The Matrix, dodging bullets and shits while running on walls and if you're not happy about that, heck you can apply to our non-mandatory paying DLC feature that obviously won't impact the game, but will make it looks SSSOOOOO KOOLLLL BROOOO".

Cyberpunk should evoke the dark gritty world of tomorrow, a world where people have cybernetics in their body, capitalism is brutal as never before, but your characters are humans, some nobody (kinda like "They live" a Zero, like Case in Neuromancer, even Molly who's an hardened fighter doesn't run on walls, etc...
She have a fight in Senso/Rez and got her leg broken by a guard, she doesn't do some "badass tricks", it's just rude and brutal, as a fight should be, nothing fancy, but rude and realistic.
While those "cool effect" are cool, they better not impact on the whole tone of the game (I mean, they do wall running in Call of Duty too...)

Snatcher really got the tone right about that.

Now, if the FPP is well done and immersive (Alien Isolation), well, Ok, but then it kinda suck the joy out of getting a role and "fleshing out your character", you won't see him/her much (much more like a gimmick to counter complains from The Witcher), if there is one story and you play from YOUR perspective (which TPP is more "the character one"), a Witcher style narative would be fine, following a single story, since you're trapped in a character you'll barely see.

Now, FPP RPG have proven to be cool if well made (Fallout 4 / Skyrim, despite having a not so interesting story did well when it came to gameplay), I just hope CDPR won't screw themselves up on this.

Something that would be like really cool would instead be to have your normal view at TPP, but switching to FPP when you're aiming.
More precise to shoot, and would give you a better sense of perspective when it comes to the world around you (also for platforms and kung-fu).
Unless CDPR want to cut off the budget on character animation.

Story-Driven also sounds more like a "The Witcher" than "Fallout New Vegas", unless they made as much path as there are role, but there are no way a Techie, a Solo, a Netrunner and a Rockerboy have to be at the same place, at the same time for the same reason (like...on the moon).

Kinda puzzled on the news, just hope they did it right (or that it's just a hoax to shake up things a bit), I would be disapointed if CP77 turned to be Deus Ex for cool kids with wall running, unlimited health and microtransactions, that's actually what company who sucks are doing nowadays.
Sure, they never did mistakes before, but you got to start somewhere, right?

We never really had a game,even less an RPG that stick to that "noir/gritty/rude" athmosphere the Cyberpunks novel had (which is kinda the roots of the whole Cyberpunk thing, game and style), I'd be disapointed if CDPR would deny all that and make a "cool kids" game, just to please the masses and sell games on a mainstream spectrum, which is what "You'll be able to run on walls to make the game faster" sounds to me.
I don't care to be fast if I can die like an idiot for a misplaced bullet, Matrix is Matrix because it's NOT REAL, Cyberpunk is the real world, with real person, you don't want to jump on bullets, even with COOL stats at 10.

I've played a lot of Call of Cthulhu, and when I watched the leaked gameplay, I could really "feel" the whole tone of the game in it, these guys nailed it, I hope CDPR didn't lost themselves on the way, I'm not against FPP, but I hope they found a way to flesh it out without making it feel "clunky", TPP feels more "RPG" than FPP IMO, it would be just like playing Shenmue at first person, it wouldn't feel the same at all.

I hope CP77 will delivers, something worth the legacy of CP2020,or then I'll probably just be hyped for the new Pnp version.
Just my 2cts anyway, for what it's worth.

://end_of_my_rant.exe

 

[Suhiira]

Kinda puzzled on the news, just hope they did it right (or that it's just a hoax to shake up things a bit), I would be disapointed if CP77 turned to be Deus Ex for cool kids with wall running, unlimited health and microtransactions, that's actually what company who sucks are doing nowadays.

I wouldn't go that far.
Many of those features are perfectly at home in an FPS action game.
Thing is ... CP2077 isn't going to be an FPS action game.

 

[Meccanical]

Thing is ... CP2077 isn't going to be an FPS action game.

Spoiler

Or is it?

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

I don't care to be fast if I can die like an idiot for a misplaced bullet, Matrix is Matrix because it's NOT REAL, Cyberpunk is the real world, with real person, you don't want to jump on bullets, even with COOL stats at 10.

It would be plausible to fun on walls in CP2077 if the cahracter is either trained at parkour or has cyber implants that facilitate him to do that. But I hope it is something realistic and not like titanfall.

Customisation would be kinda "meh", since you'd care way less about your character since to don't see him (excepted in a bunch of cinematics), mostly that "customisation" is a core feature in Cyberpunk.

If the game is FPS only CDPR will be damaging themselves a lot. Come on CP2020 is all about style, it really doens't make sense to not see your character in CP2077.

A last part on the Moon? Orbital "confirmed", which is cool, but rather "away" from the "We want to keep the game at street level", won't complain tho if we have to see a lot of CP world.

There are some facts that make me not believe we'll have a sandbox enviroment on the moon in CP2077. One of them is what you said about CP2077 being at the street level" and the other is resources:

Back in 2013 CDPR said they would like CP2077 to have 2 sandbox enviroments, and they also said the game would happen in Night City and the wastelands around it. These wastelands will be important for the role of "nomads" and to the story of the game. Focusing on wastelands or areas around the city would be way more important than a moon base.

Your profile pic is from the band 3teeth? I really like their songs.