In game character Perspective!

[sv3672]

Also, you're supposed to drive vehicules in it (they hired people for it) and FPP driving is clunky as hell.

I do not know why driving would necessarily be bad in FPP, perhaps it depends on the input device, but I did not have issues with simple WASD + mouse controls in other games, where the keys accelerate, brake and steer, while with the mouse one can look around without steering. Of course, I do not expect something comparable to a title specialized in simulation (like racing games), but rather what is sufficient in an action RPG. In any case, it cannot be much clunkier than riding Roach.

A last part on the Moon? Orbital "confirmed", which is cool, but rather "away" from the "We want to keep the game at street level", won't complain tho if we have to see a lot of CP world.

Not much is known about that, it could be anything from a full expansion to just one quest like Witcher 3's Through Time and Space, where you travel to those different worlds and they are interesting, but in the end you only see each of them for a few minutes.

Customisation would be kinda "meh", since you'd care way less about your character since to don't see him (excepted in a bunch of cinematics), mostly that "customisation" is a core feature in Cyberpunk.

Even if we only saw the character in cinematic dialogues and cutscenes, there would likely be plenty of the former. On a complete playthrough of The Witcher 3 base game, one can spend many hours watching Geralt talk in cinematic dialogues (with him having 12000+ lines, most of them in quests), and Cyberpunk could very well have even more, being a more ambitious game. I also think FPP would be more like in Dying Light than, say, Elder Scrolls, in that the protagonist would have a partly visible body. Then again, my bet is still that the game will include both TPP and FPP, and the rumors are just exaggerating to attract more clicks.

Back in 2013 CDPR said they would like CP2077 to have 2 sandbox enviroments, and they also said the game would happen in Night City and the wastelands around it. These wastelands will be important for the role of "nomads" and to the story of the game. Focusing on wastelands or areas around the city would be way more important than a moon base.

If the section on the Moon is short, CDPR might not have considered it worth mentioning as a separate "sandbox". For The Witcher 3, the worlds in TTaS and the fablesphere (although technically a part of the Toussaint hub) are often not mentioned as regions simply because they are small and only visited briefly. Alternatively, it may be a newer idea than the key points poster, or only planned in a DLC.

It may be interesting to note that all three of The Witcher 3 main game, Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine include traveling to some unusual environment that may not even be real, a quest on the Moon in Cyberpunk would not be that surprising.

 

[Snowflakez]

I do not know why driving would necessarily be bad in FPP, perhaps it depends on the input device, but I did not have issues with simple WASD + mouse controls in other games, where the keys accelerate, brake and steer, while with the mouse one can look around without steering. Of course, I do not expect something comparable to a title specialized in simulation (like racing games), but rather what is sufficient in an action RPG. In any case, it cannot be much clunkier than riding Roach.



Not much is known about that, it could be anything from a full expansion to just one quest like Witcher 3's Through Time and Space, where you travel to those different worlds and they are interesting, but in the end you only see each of them for a few minutes.



Even if we only saw the character in cinematic dialogues and cutscenes, there would likely be plenty of the former. On a complete playthrough of The Witcher 3 base game, one can spend many hours watching Geralt talk in cinematic dialogues (with him having 12000+ lines, most of them in quests), and Cyberpunk could very well have even more, being a more ambitious game. I also think FPP would be more like in Dying Light than, say, Elder Scrolls, in that the protagonist would have a partly visible body. Then again, my bet is still that the game will include both TPP and FPP, and the rumors are just exaggerating to attract more clicks.



If the section on the Moon is short, CDPR might not have considered it worth mentioning as a separate "sandbox". For The Witcher 3, the worlds in TTaS and the fablesphere (although technically a part of the Toussaint hub) are often not mentioned as regions simply because they are small and only visited briefly. Alternatively, it may be a newer idea than the key points poster, or only planned in a DLC.

It may be interesting to note that all three of The Witcher 3 main game, Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine include traveling to some unusual environment that may not even be real, a quest on the Moon in Cyberpunk would not be that surprising.

If players go to the moon, my guess is it's going to be a drug trip. Not actual space travel.

Just my thoughts, though. CDPR already did something similar with Through Space And Time in TW3 - you visited numerous unique worlds. It wasn't a drug trip, but you were only on each one for a couple minutes, if that. A shame, too, because there was some reaaalllly interesting stuff there.

 

[Garrison72]

I'd rather we visit another area of the world than go to the moon. It'd be much more interesting to see what places other than NC are like in 2077.

 

[Sneky]

I think for expansion similar to Blood and Wine it would be VERY INTERESTING to see how well developed is space travel in year 2077, and im not talking only about Moon, but other planets also. It was already pretty big in 2020:

The Earth turns silently below, a ball of seething humanity, trapped in an ever-more polluted environment. Meanwhile, desperate Edgerunners battle greedy Corps for what "good" living is left. Mankind has only one place left to go ... up ... and out.

Out to a place of absolute cold and perfect clarity, where immense cylinder worlds spin in the sky; needle-like deltas speed on intercept courses, and spiderty orbital vehicles surround the titanic white lattices of the Far Planetary explorers.Humanity is reaching -- for Deep Space.

Enter the Future of CYBERPUNK with Deep Space, the continuation of the Near Orbit saga. The timeline has been extended to 2025 as the first generation of Highriders struggle for freedom from groundstar control. Lunar colonies are the norm, and the skies are crowded with corporations jockeying for position on this new economic frontier. At the same time, government and private enterprise take their first steps on Mars and into the Belt, in search of knowledge and resources. And what will new missions find inside the Gas Giants?

Deep Space expands Near Orbit's vehicle / equipment lists and contains maps of the Tycho / Copernicus Lunar colonies along with Mars' Chryse Base. As a bonus, we include the adventure Red Conflict -- unrest among the scientific stations of Mars!

Let your CYBERPUNK 2020 campaign break the shackels of Earth, and reach for the unknown with ...Deep Space

 

[Shavod]

If players go to the moon, my guess is it's going to be a drug trip. Not actual space travel.

Just my thoughts, though. CDPR already did something similar with Through Space And Time in TW3 - you visited numerous unique worlds. It wasn't a drug trip, but you were only on each one for a couple minutes, if that. A shame, too, because there was some reaaalllly interesting stuff there.

Initially each world supposed to be a separate hub, with it's own NPC's, quests and other stuff, about a size of White Orchard area. and they planned to have even more of them, at one point even considered having Geralt and Avallac'h drop in Night City briefly, but of course since it would be a pretty huge and costly endeavour they ultimately didn't go with this idea.

 

[Snowflakez]

Initially each world supposed to be a separate hub, with it's own NPC's, quests and other stuff, about a size of White Orchard area. and they planned to have even more of them, at one point even considered having Geralt and Avallac'h drop in Night City briefly, but of course since it would be a pretty huge and costly endeavour they ultimately didn't go with this idea.

Very interesting, I had no idea. I would have absolutely loved that, it's too bad they couldn't follow through!

 

[Anothername]

Add me to the pile of people who just came to post here because of havin been scared shitless on the "its going to be FPP!" rumors.

I do like to occasionally switch to an optional FPP mode in games like FO3/NV or Oblivion; but only to either snipe or to admire some small designed hard to see detail before switching back to my default 3rd person view.

 

[AjnaSG]

I've also been driven here by the latest rumour of FPP, for me this isn't about immersion and which perspective provides that for me, it's about intense motion sickness that makes it impossible for me to play games in FP, I even have trouble watching most streams of FP games.

I'm just here to support a third person perspective in some way, be it primary or secondary, I'm here to ask for a choice.

 

[Snowflakez]

I've also been driven here by the latest rumour of FPP, for me this isn't about immersion and which perspective provides that for me, it's about intense motion sickness that makes it impossible for me to play games in FP, I even have trouble watching most streams of FP games.

I'm just here to support a third person perspective in some way, be it primary or secondary, I'm here to ask for a choice.

Agreed. I have the same problem.

 

[Maelcom404]

There are some facts that make me not believe we'll have a sandbox enviroment on the moon in CP2077. One of them is what you said about CP2077 being at the street level" and the other is resource

Oh, no need for a wide "Sandbox" environment, just a bunch of premade levels would be fine, not much to do on the moon anyway.
Think about Alien Isolation, the world isn't "that big", it's a pain in the ass to walk throught it because you're almost killed each time you start to run, and you have to sneak, but the station isn't that big.
Like, in the end of Neuromancer, Case goes on a space station to finish the mission and free wintermute, but he's not wandering that much.
I could totally see the end of CP77 happening in space after a lot of time spent on earth (Night City + Wasteland).
Even in the pnp supplement about space, they clearly says that space isn't a welcolming place, so the level would be small anyway and there is already a moon station in CP2020, so there's no reason (unless stated otherwise) that it's gone in 2077.

Your profile pic is from the band 3teeth? I really like their songs.

Yep it is, I do too, really cool guys btw, made a music video for them too

I do not know why driving would necessarily be bad in FPP, perhaps it depends on the input device, but I did not have issues with simple WASD + mouse controls in other games, where the keys accelerate, brake and steer, while with the mouse one can look around without steering. Of course, I do not expect something comparable to a title specialized in simulation (like racing games), but rather what is sufficient in an action RPG. In any case, it cannot be much clunkier than riding Roach.

Well, it may be well done in FPP for some games, but usualy it's better handled at TPP (like in GTA or any racing game), mostly in an urban environement, if you're driving "casually" it may be ok, but FPP during a police chase (it's Cyberpunk, so it may kinda happens a way or another) or drive & shooting may be really uneasy at first person, not the best option there IMO, most of the time it's TPP, so I figure it may be the same (just for the sakes of having an idea of the "place" your car/whatever takes on the road).

Even if we only saw the character in cinematic dialogues and cutscenes, there would likely be plenty of the former. On a complete playthrough of The Witcher 3 base game, one can spend many hours watching Geralt talk in cinematic dialogues (with him having 12000+ lines, most of them in quests), and Cyberpunk could very well have even more, being a more ambitious game. I also think FPP would be more like in Dying Light than, say, Elder Scrolls, in that the protagonist would have a partly visible body. Then again, my bet is still that the game will include both TPP and FPP, and the rumors are just exaggerating to attract more clicks.

Yeah, I guess so those articles are rumor, but anyway, just looking at the original pnp, there are so many implants and skills (karate, etc...) that would be challenging to make works properly at first person.
Now, maybe CDPR topped themselves and found a way so you can do a lot of hand-to-hand and using your body at first person (like, in most game you can't see or barely your legs, what if you have implants on it? you'd have less space to prepare your move if you can't have some recoil from your character, etc...).
IMO TPP is way more easy to deal with that FPP on that regard, but we'll see how they fleshed that out anyway.

 

[Nexus-77]

Add me to the pile of people who just came to post here because of havin been scared shitless on the "its going to be FPP!" rumors.

I do like to occasionally switch to an optional FPP mode in games like FO3/NV or Oblivion; but only to either snipe or to admire some small designed hard to see detail before switching back to my default 3rd person view.

Ditto.
I trust they are listening to all the feedback. FPP could be fun as an alternative view in some situations/occasions (like an epic race through the city).
But in my insignificant opinion, 3rd person view as default would be better. I mean, if Cyberpunk will be a RPG or have strongs elements of a RPG.
The Witcher 3 had a very good camera/view. Maybe it's the case of "if it ain't broken..."

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Oh, no need for a wide "Sandbox" environment, just a bunch of premade levels would be fine, not much to do on the moon anyway. Think about Alien Isolation, the world isn't "that big", it's a pain in the ass to walk throught it because you're almost killed each time you start to run, and you have to sneak, but the station isn't that big. Like, in the end of Neuromancer, Case goes on a space station to finish the mission and free wintermute, but he's not wandering that much. I could totally see the end of CP77 happening in space after a lot of time spent on earth (Night City + Wasteland). Even in the pnp supplement about space, they clearly says that space isn't a welcolming place, so the level would be small anyway and there is already a moon station in CP2020, so there's no reason (unless stated otherwise) that it's gone in 2077.

There is only one question that matters, and that is "will the majority of gamers enjoy a moon sandbox environment more than a place situated on earth?" To me the answer to that question is no.

Even Mass Effect had planets that looked pretty much like earth with deserts, snow and forests...there is nothing interesting on the moon except for perhaps a moon city? If that's the case then why not spend resources building a place on earth instead?

Marcin Iwinski said multiple times that they don't want to make the game too futuristic and instead they want CP2077 to stay in touch with us today. Perhaps he said that for the same reason that GTA V sold like hotcakes. The more in touch with our reality a game is, the more likely it is for people to immerse in it. The moon is less interesting than a sandbox environment on earth.

Yep it is, I do too, really cool guys btw, made a music video for them too

Great edit there buddy, I started listening to them a while ago and my favorite song is Pit of Fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVu7lLgoNsA

EDIT: also "Atrophy" is amazing

 

[Maelcom404]

There is only one question that matters, and that is "will the majority of gamers enjoy a moon sandbox environment more than a place situated on earth?" To me the answer to that question is no.
Even Mass Effect had planets that looked pretty much like earth with deserts, snow and forests...there is nothing interesting on the moon except for perhaps a moon city? If that's the case then why not spend resources building a place on earth instead?

Marcin Iwinski said multiple times that they don't want to make the game too futuristic and instead they want CP2077 to stay in touch with us today. Perhaps he said that for the same reason that GTA V sold like hotcakes. The more in touch with our reality a game is, the more likely it is for people to immerse in it. The moon is too out of touch with our reality to attract people and it's also boring.

Well, I meant it as a "story" element.
Since the game will be story driven, there aren't much reason some part couldn't be played into space (it happens in a lot of cyberpunk stories: Neuromancer, Hardwired, etc...), orbitals are quite a big part of Cyberpunk lore, so a bunch of levels in space wouldn't be that far stretched if it's brought there for a good reason (like, chasing a Corporate CEO who'd go hide into space, the story and climax would probably give a good and legit reason for it to happens, then you go back to earth and keep on doing your edgerunner stuff, that's quite cyberpunk in itself), not saying it could be a "common" thing, but more like an icing on the cake, it would be cool just because it's uncommon, breaking the monotony from drug dealers, aggressive bums and mean corporate police squads

In 2020 Earth/Moon travel are quite easy already, just some big magnetic catapults that shoot you straight to the receiver on the moon, or something like that.
But anyway yep, we can live without it, but I wouldn't mind seeing some orbital stuff thrown here or there for the fun of it, the Cyberpunk lore is quite big, so they do have a lot of options to have fun and surprise us.

Great edit there buddy, I started listening to them a while ago and my favorite song is Pit of Fire:

EDIT: also "Atrophy" is amazing

Thanks
Yep from their last album, I love it!
If you didn't yet, you should check their first album aswell, sounded a bit grittier/darker, was pretty dope aswell

Anyway about the perspective, Mike Pondsmith clearly said that for him "Cyberpunk as a videogame would be something like GTA with Cybernetics and a RPG approach", then he sold the right to CDPR being all "Those guys really know their stuff and do want to flesh out the vision of Cyberpunk I had as a video game and we're on the same boat".
So, as far as I'm concerned, unless stated otherwise, it will be a TPP and nothing ever close to a FPP or fast shooter.
I mean, Mike would be mad, selling the right to the licence of his life, only to be screwed at the last minute with the opposite of his vision for the game.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Anyway about the perspective, Mike Pondsmith clearly said that for him "Cyberpunk as a videogame would be something like GTA with Cybernetics and a RPG approach", then he sold the right to CDPR being all "Those guys really know their stuff and do want to flesh out the vision of Cyberpunk I had as a video game and we're on the same boat". So, as far as I'm concerned, unless stated otherwise, it will be a TPP and nothing ever close to a FPP or fast shooter. I mean, Mike would be mad, selling the right to the licence of his life, only to be screwed at the last minute with the opposite of his vision for the game.

I really am starting to think Mike would be pissed if the game was actually a FPS only, which I hope it won't be!

But could a game have FPS only and still be a true RPG? My guess is that CP2077 will have to be even more RPG than The Witcher series, since it is based on the CP2020 PNP RPG game.

Thanks Yep from their last album, I love it! If you didn't yet, you should check their first album aswell, sounded a bit grittier/darker, was pretty dope aswell

I know that song. What really gets me with that band is the vocalist's voice, it's pretty good.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Moon stuff is again one of those things that'd fit as a limited braindance session rather than concretely a part of the story.

Trying to forcibly make a too broad setting (Night City, wastelands, cyberspace, actual space....) is... well, much more of a danger of collapsing the whole thing (and no, "CDPR is my hero, they can do anything! Anything, I tell you!" doesn't fly here, they are not miracle makers no matter how good they might be). Night City is itself already so large a setting that it can easily contain stories worth of several games. Overdoing things is never a good thing because it shows.

 

[Garrison72]

When I first read Pondsmith's comment about Cyberpunk being similar to GTA I balked. But the more I think about it the more it makes sense. He's not necessarily talking about game mechanics or story, but freedom, random AI events, attention to realism and likely even third person perspective so you can emphasize vehicles. Now I can't picture the game any other way. Being FP only just makes into into another Dues Ex or Fallout clone. You're simply more limited. If they do both, great, but I doubt that's going to happen.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Being FP only just makes into into another Dues Ex or Fallout clone.

Is that any worse than being a GTA clone, all things considered?

 

[Shavod]

Anyway about the perspective, Mike Pondsmith clearly said that for him "Cyberpunk as a videogame would be something like GTA with Cybernetics and a RPG approach", then he sold the right to CDPR being all "Those guys really know their stuff and do want to flesh out the vision of Cyberpunk I had as a video game and we're on the same boat". So, as far as I'm concerned, unless stated otherwise, it will be a TPP and nothing ever close to a FPP or fast shooter. I mean, Mike would be mad, selling the right to the licence of his life, only to be screwed at the last minute with the opposite of his vision for the game.

Or, what I think is more likely, Mike Pondsmith doesn't give a flying fluff if the game is first, second, third or fourth person, as long as CDPR do justice to the setting, themes and basic mechanics of the original. If the game was ultimately designed as FPP, it was a decision that was made a long time ago, not something they just randomly changed two months before E3 without telling him and seeing how closely they work together to the point that they consult him about every single major change in the script, he would already know about change like that and approve it. Regarding GTA 3, he could mean pretty much anything by that (like atmosphere or sandbox elements), so I wouldn't use it as a argument for what kind of perspective Mike would like or wouldn't like.

 

[Maelcom404]

When I first read Pondsmith's comment about Cyberpunk being similar to GTA I balked. But the more I think about it the more it makes sense. He's not necessarily talking about game mechanics or story, but freedom, random AI events, attention to realism and likely even third person perspective so you can emphasize vehicles. Now I can't picture the game any other way. Being FP only just makes into into another Dues Ex or Fallout clone. You're simply more limited. If they do both, great, but I doubt that's going to happen.

That's how I feel it aswell, you're just a piece of Night City, not someone that has any kind of control on it, and GTA (the spirit of the game, not any gameplay mecanic involved) flesh it out perfectly.
You can sit, watch the city living by itself and a few minute later you'll have a random even from npc happening, free to you to help or just watch, the thrid person also flesh out the "style over matter" with probably a lot of fun to have with your character's customisation and watching him among "the mass", even the shooting mecanics works well, and since cyberpunk is a RPG it would be just fine, most combat are more about who shoot first than anything else, everything else is mostly social skills (dialogues etc... Like in fallout, which lacked heavily in fallout 4)

 

[Snowflakez]

Or, what I think is more likely, Mike Pondsmith doesn't give a flying fluff if the game is first, second, third or fourth person, as long as CDPR do justice to the setting, themes and basic mechanics of the original. If the game was ultimately designed as FPP, it was a decision that was made a long time ago, not something they just randomly changed two months before E3 without telling him and seeing how closely they work together to the point that they consult him about every single major change in the script, he would already know about change like that and approve it. Regarding GTA 3, he could mean pretty much anything by that (like atmosphere or sandbox elements), so I wouldn't use it as a argument for what kind of perspective Mike would like or wouldn't like.

As much as I would hate for the game to be FPP only, I agree with you here.

Mike, as the creator of the CP franchise, most likely will not care so long as CDPR makes a damn good video game that stays true to his vision of what the CP world is. Whether the game is FPP or not is likely not up to Mike, and even if it was, he would probably take a hands off approach and leave the video game design to the video game designers (not that Mike doesn't know anything about video game design - he worked on them for quite a while at one point).

Of course, I'm sure he has an opinion on the subject, as most people do. I'm sure that if he were to hop into the game, he would probably have a preference. But that's probably just a personal taste thing and less "you need XYZ perspective to stay true to the CP franchise."