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Uhh... If people vote for both, they vote for both, and you can and you have to count those votes. I voted for both. Because I want both. I don't want third person only. I want both. Just like so many others.
You're right in that a lot of people want third person in some form as well. However, you have to count the 52.88% as people who want both. You'd be stupid not to.
If the game is either first person only, or third person only, then you're pissing off 53% (plus the opposing side) of the people who answered this poll. Plain and simple.
It's not a poll about "well meh I don't care, I'll play either." No. The answer is both views. Both.
That's mathematics for you. Yes, 86% of people want third person perspective. But also, almost 67% of the people want first person perspective. Yes, it is true that if you go first person only, you're going to piss off and alienate the majority.
However, the funny thing is, if you go third person only, you're going to piss off and alienate the majority.
That's the point. And I made it because third person is being lobbied by so many.
As I said before, I want both views available. It can be done, and saying "concentrating on both takes away from perfecting one" is pseudoscientific bullshit with absolutely nothing to back it up. You can do both, and you can perfect both. And no, I won't accept past games as examples, because past games weren't made by CDPR.
So in closing, nothing I said was wrong.
You're right in that a lot of people want third person in some form as well. However, you have to count the 52.88% as people who want both. You'd be stupid not to.
If the game is either first person only, or third person only, then you're pissing off 53% (plus the opposing side) of the people who answered this poll. Plain and simple.
It's not a poll about "well meh I don't care, I'll play either." No. The answer is both views. Both.
That's mathematics for you. Yes, 86% of people want third person perspective. But also, almost 67% of the people want first person perspective. Yes, it is true that if you go first person only, you're going to piss off and alienate the majority.
However, the funny thing is, if you go third person only, you're going to piss off and alienate the majority.
That's the point. And I made it because third person is being lobbied by so many.
As I said before, I want both views available. It can be done, and saying "concentrating on both takes away from perfecting one" is pseudoscientific bullshit with absolutely nothing to back it up. You can do both, and you can perfect both. And no, I won't accept past games as examples, because past games weren't made by CDPR.
So in closing, nothing I said was wrong.
We-ell.
No.
If you go third-person only, you won't alienate me. And I didn't vote TPS-only, obviously. I'd prefer both, probably, although FP would be just fine and I'm happy to work with TPS.
See, people may well have voted TPS and FPS not because we want both, but because we want everyone to be happy. If you don't give us TPS and FPS, more people are happy with Third only as opposed to first only.
So, in summary, you aren't going to alienate the majority. You're going to make everyone who wants Third only happy and satisfy at least partially everyone who wants/would accept both.
If you're that rare bird who MUST HAVE both and accepts nothing less, we need a new poll!
No.
If you go third-person only, you won't alienate me. And I didn't vote TPS-only, obviously. I'd prefer both, probably, although FP would be just fine and I'm happy to work with TPS.
See, people may well have voted TPS and FPS not because we want both, but because we want everyone to be happy. If you don't give us TPS and FPS, more people are happy with Third only as opposed to first only.
So, in summary, you aren't going to alienate the majority. You're going to make everyone who wants Third only happy and satisfy at least partially everyone who wants/would accept both.
If you're that rare bird who MUST HAVE both and accepts nothing less, we need a new poll!
Pretty much this.... exactly....
I voted for third person, but that is because I voted before the poll was changed. But even voting for both I still had/have the caveat that third person perspective be the default... because the character animations are smoother that way. 3rd person in Fallout 3 and new vegas looks all kinds of messed up because they programmed in first person as default... so the running looks weird, the strafing and moving up hills is all sorts of whack...
I would only accept third person view after acquiring this in game:
Dead. Serious.
Dead. Serious.
Oh boy, I remember last year where i spent the better part of a week end to mod new vegas for better 3rd person animations, waste of my goddamn time.
If you're not CDPR, you usually have to pay extra for that.
I don't understand why some people want only the third vision !
I prefer the first vision but I voted for the both because some people prefer the third and I respect them, but i still dont understand the extremist of the third version, just why only one vision ? If you can chose your vision why would do want remove the other, others peoples want to play with the first vision, Why ?
Do you care about the people want the both ?
I prefer the first vision but I voted for the both because some people prefer the third and I respect them, but i still dont understand the extremist of the third version, just why only one vision ? If you can chose your vision why would do want remove the other, others peoples want to play with the first vision, Why ?
Do you care about the people want the both ?
I'm playing System Shock 2 right now and I love it. I like the first person perspective, but in a game in which character style is playing such a large role, I also want the third person. I WANT BOTH FIRST AND THIRD PERSON VIEW.
It won't take away from the experience. There is no "perfecting" a view either, so:
FOV sliders for both (not just up to 120HFOV, but beyond too, please)
zooming and panning the view like you could in TERA
EDIT: This was typed in the dark on an unlit keyboard, so please excuse the mistakes.
It won't take away from the experience. There is no "perfecting" a view either, so:
FOV sliders for both (not just up to 120HFOV, but beyond too, please)
zooming and panning the view like you could in TERA
EDIT: This was typed in the dark on an unlit keyboard, so please excuse the mistakes.
So today I had a lot of free time and sat down and thought about storytelling in video games, and why Bioshock: Infinite's story came across like it did. This is the part that's related to this discussion:
In a book, everything done is told either in the 3rd or second person (as in, either " Person X does thing Y" or "I did thing Y", which implies that he author did it).
The same goes for a film, but films normally rely heavier on telling the story in the 3rd person.
But in a video game, the player can be the main character, and what happens and if anything happens at all is dependent on his actions, not the author's or a character's. When playing a game, you don't think "my character moves to there", but you think "I'm going there"*. You decide what happens, you don't just watch somebody else do it. You are the one doing it. You are the main character, not somebody else. That is also why some games can reach us on a more fundamental level than movies, because instead of seeing somebody experience something, it's happening to us. This effect is not diminished by a non-silent protagonist (though it can be if the wrong voice actress/actor is chosen) or by a third person perspective, though both definitively remove a little bit from the experience. There's also the question of how "gamy" the game feels. If you have ironsights aiming, you have an extra level of immersion because players can just turn the crosshair off and still play the game. If you have a very unintrusive or in-context explained HUD (like for example you wearing AR glasses and being able to see that in a mirror), this also adds a lot to the experience.
(Going off topic from here down)
Another thing games can do like no other medium is characterise by way of reactions to what the main character is doing. To give a very low-level example: in Mass Effect, you can move about with your gun drawn (there is a button for holstering it, thank god). If you do so on the Citadel, people will react to that and either be scared or take offense (criminals or C-Sec).
*not valid for most JRPGs, obviously.
In a book, everything done is told either in the 3rd or second person (as in, either " Person X does thing Y" or "I did thing Y", which implies that he author did it).
The same goes for a film, but films normally rely heavier on telling the story in the 3rd person.
But in a video game, the player can be the main character, and what happens and if anything happens at all is dependent on his actions, not the author's or a character's. When playing a game, you don't think "my character moves to there", but you think "I'm going there"*. You decide what happens, you don't just watch somebody else do it. You are the one doing it. You are the main character, not somebody else. That is also why some games can reach us on a more fundamental level than movies, because instead of seeing somebody experience something, it's happening to us. This effect is not diminished by a non-silent protagonist (though it can be if the wrong voice actress/actor is chosen) or by a third person perspective, though both definitively remove a little bit from the experience. There's also the question of how "gamy" the game feels. If you have ironsights aiming, you have an extra level of immersion because players can just turn the crosshair off and still play the game. If you have a very unintrusive or in-context explained HUD (like for example you wearing AR glasses and being able to see that in a mirror), this also adds a lot to the experience.
(Going off topic from here down)
Another thing games can do like no other medium is characterise by way of reactions to what the main character is doing. To give a very low-level example: in Mass Effect, you can move about with your gun drawn (there is a button for holstering it, thank god). If you do so on the Citadel, people will react to that and either be scared or take offense (criminals or C-Sec).
*not valid for most JRPGs, obviously.
It's an interesting question, this one of immersion. I wonder if some prefer less-immersive viewpoints - and audio, etc - because it can be uncomfortable. No peripheral vision, wrong sense of movement, all sort of cues that you aren't really there, but peering through a weird window. I know I found Amnesia quite uncomfortable because of this sense of near-immersion.
Also because things were trying to kill me.
Far Cry 3 felt much less uncomfortable, but also less intimate. Same for Deus Ex.
Mass Effect didn't feel uncomfortable at all, since I could see myself pretty easily and I obviously wasn't me. Still fun, but no discomfort. Which is a selling point, I'd think.
Also because things were trying to kill me.
Far Cry 3 felt much less uncomfortable, but also less intimate. Same for Deus Ex.
Mass Effect didn't feel uncomfortable at all, since I could see myself pretty easily and I obviously wasn't me. Still fun, but no discomfort. Which is a selling point, I'd think.
See, the thing is, First person shooters do NOT feel immersive to me... peripheral vision is a big part of that... not being aware of your own body is another big part...
Sure with an advanced headset, you might get peripheral vision. someday you might even get something that tracks eye movement, allowing you to look left right up and down instantly and seamlessly, without moving head or body... though that would really suck for anyone watching you play...
But beyond that, immersion is a joke, because you have no tactile or olfactory input. Just seeing through the eyes of the protagonist doesn't immerse me anymore than looking at a picture makes me feel like I am the cameraman standing on the mountain.
So since there is no way I can actually feel immersed i the game, I would rather be able to see my cool character doing cool shit...
Sure with an advanced headset, you might get peripheral vision. someday you might even get something that tracks eye movement, allowing you to look left right up and down instantly and seamlessly, without moving head or body... though that would really suck for anyone watching you play...
But beyond that, immersion is a joke, because you have no tactile or olfactory input. Just seeing through the eyes of the protagonist doesn't immerse me anymore than looking at a picture makes me feel like I am the cameraman standing on the mountain.
So since there is no way I can actually feel immersed i the game, I would rather be able to see my cool character doing cool shit...
Oh, I dunno, Wisdom. Turn off the lights and play Amnesia. It's pretty immersive. Peripheral is doable now, to a point. I run at 4720x1600 across three screens, the two side ones sideways to fill my peripheral vision. STALKER is great like that. Audio is also solid.
Still, it's not like being there. On the other hand, I don't care -that- much how I look, it's what I can and will do in game that matters to me.
And then we have this, http://mashable.com/2013/05/07/oculus-rift-guillotine/
Because people.
Still, it's not like being there. On the other hand, I don't care -that- much how I look, it's what I can and will do in game that matters to me.
And then we have this, http://mashable.com/2013/05/07/oculus-rift-guillotine/
Because people.
I wish I could have 3 screems... nah, I can make do with my 32" TV (until I start using Hammer, of course...).
When you talk about audio: position 2 normal speakers right, and you'll need nothing else (of course I'm talking speakers with actual woofers and tweeters, not the junk you normally get with your PC). I tried a surround sound setup made up of the speakers I already have... bloody awful, sound from 4 or 5 different sources which are all in the wrong position.
It's A LOT more like being there than when you play in third person though.
Um... FPS seem to not be made with immersion in mind most of the time. Especially not MMS or WWII shooters. Far Cry is reasonably immersive... not great though. Crysis and Crysis 2 are pretty good, but only of you turn the FOV up past 90. Truth to be told, I have yet to play a truly immersive FP game, but that goes for TP games too. Mass Effect was good... but the whole combat was horribly shoved into the immersive experience. Bioshock Infinite was pretty good there too, but there was something... off. Just off. I have no real idea what it was though.
I completely forgot about the Oculus Rift. I imagine that thing being a pain in the ass to game with though, if you haven't labeled your keys in braille.
When you talk about audio: position 2 normal speakers right, and you'll need nothing else (of course I'm talking speakers with actual woofers and tweeters, not the junk you normally get with your PC). I tried a surround sound setup made up of the speakers I already have... bloody awful, sound from 4 or 5 different sources which are all in the wrong position.
It's A LOT more like being there than when you play in third person though.
Um... FPS seem to not be made with immersion in mind most of the time. Especially not MMS or WWII shooters. Far Cry is reasonably immersive... not great though. Crysis and Crysis 2 are pretty good, but only of you turn the FOV up past 90. Truth to be told, I have yet to play a truly immersive FP game, but that goes for TP games too. Mass Effect was good... but the whole combat was horribly shoved into the immersive experience. Bioshock Infinite was pretty good there too, but there was something... off. Just off. I have no real idea what it was though.
I completely forgot about the Oculus Rift. I imagine that thing being a pain in the ass to game with though, if you haven't labeled your keys in braille.
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