Interactive Scene System

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I think I worded that wrong. Sorry, I didn't mean like literally. The highlighting/selection color in the demo is yellow. The decisions read out like green, yellow and red in severity scale. If it's a top to bottom thing. Like sorta tame choices on top, bottom being opposite. I like the idea of being able to play by feeling out the moment instead of reading so much. Like if, you know, tame choice is always on top. Snarky in the middle, and dgaf on the bottom(in a broad sense) then reading can only help to be more specific and help you understand the story more through "safe", dare I say limitless, decision making. Almost everyone is going to play cautious at first, but the replays may have a more flowing feel to it because you know a bit more about how to play. The idea of always knowing what broad choice to make could be seen as limiting in some ways, but it would be nice to be able to "feel" our way through an environment. So that our gamplay is how actors flow through their lines on stage and make everything realistic for the audience.

That's a standard affair with pretty much any RPG game featuring branching dialogue trees. Whenever you respond to another NPC, the highest option is usually the nicer and compliant one, the ones in the middle range from not entirely compliant to neutral, then at the bottom you have the aggresive approach. This kind of way of setting things up allows the players to almost subconsciously figure out the basic roleplaying patterns in conversations (if you want "no trouble", you usually go for the first one, if you want to be evil, you go for the last one). You can also mix them up depending on situation to give more depth to your character (in Cyberpunk case you can for example choose to always pick the compliant options when conversing with Corporates, but hostile or neutral toward Rockerboys, if you want to play as ultimate bootlicker for the Corporate overlords, not that there is anything wrong with that... I guess).

But of course it's not always as clear cut, for example in Cyberpunk 2077 demo when you are being asked by Meredith if you are alone, lying about that (which is neither nice nor compliant) is listed as upper choice, while the second option is actually you being somewhat nice for a change by stating the truth. So following your instinct based on dialogue choices placement might not always be a good idea, but most of the times I think you would be okay.
Yeah, I honestly don't know why they made such a big deal with the cinematic camera in FO4. It kinda sucked. Very big departure from normal Bethesda games. 'Fraid I don't know what F3BBAS stands for. :p
Bethesda tried to go into a more narrative driven direction with Fallout 4, possibly due to being inspired by Mass Effect series (Witcher series wasn't as mainstream yet, so I think it doesn't share any blame for that), but of course Bethesda games usually do not shine when it comes to in-game narrative, but rather with their open worlds combined with a huge amount of freedom given to the player. So in the end of the day they not only made the game more restrictive with stuff like voiced protagonist to make space for that kind of approach, but also failed to deliver good narrative. As Gopher, who is a huge Bethesda fanboy, but consider The Witcher 3 to be his favorite game of all time, pointed out, Bethesda shouldn't take any lessons from The Witcher games or other narrative driven RPG's for their next titles, but rather return to their roots and expand on them.

Or so I heard. I don't know. I didn't play Fallout 4 myself, after all.

As for what this abbreviation stands for, here's a little hint:

BB stands for Being Boring.
 
That's a standard affair with pretty much any RPG game featuring branching dialogue trees. Whenever you respond to another NPC, the highest option is usually the nicer and compliant one, the ones in the middle range from not entirely compliant to neutral, then at the bottom you have the aggresive approach. This kind of way of setting things up allows the players to almost subconsciously figure out the basic roleplaying patterns in conversations (if you want "no trouble", you usually go for the first one, if you want to be evil, you go for the last one). You can also mix them up depending on situation to give more depth to your character (in Cyberpunk case you can for example choose to always pick the compliant options when conversing with Corporates, but hostile or neutral toward Rockerboys, if you want to play as ultimate bootlicker for the Corporate overlords, not that there is anything wrong with that... I guess).

But of course it's not always as clear cut, for example in Cyberpunk 2077 demo when you are being asked by Meredith if you are alone, lying about that (which is neither nice nor compliant) is listed as upper choice, while the second option is actually you being somewhat nice for a change by stating the truth. So following your instinct based on dialogue choices placement might not always be a good idea, but most of the times I think you would be okay.

Bethesda tried to go into a more narrative driven direction with Fallout 4, possibly due to being inspired by Mass Effect series (Witcher series wasn't as mainstream yet, so I think it doesn't share any blame for that), but of course Bethesda games usually do not shine when it comes to in-game narrative, but rather with their open worlds combined with a huge amount of freedom given to the player. So in the end of the day they not only made the game more restrictive with stuff like voiced protagonist to make space for that kind of approach, but also failed to deliver good narrative. As Gopher, who is a huge Bethesda fanboy, but consider The Witcher 3 to be his favorite game of all time, pointed out, Bethesda shouldn't take any lessons from The Witcher games or other narrative driven RPG's for their next titles, but rather return to their roots and expand on them.

Or so I heard. I don't know. I didn't play Fallout 4 myself, after all.

As for what this abbreviation stands for, here's a little hint:
BB stands for Being Boring.
I thought it was interesting that the player chose to lie, being that we were just told V was being hacked with a lie detector test. What was the benefit? Her bots would have (or should have) found Jackie within a minute or so, based on where they flew off to.

Its little choices like this that feel like they have meaning, but I wonder if they actually do. Maybe Jackie is dragged down there with you, or maybe Meredith appreciates the honesty and doesn't care? Can't wait to find out for myself, but I'm also aware that the whole mission may not even exist in the final game.
 
I thought it was interesting that the player chose to lie, being that we were just told V was being hacked with a lie detector test. What was the benefit? Her bots would have (or should have) found Jackie within a minute or so, based on where they flew off to.
If you have chosen to tell Jackie to stay in the car and didn't disclose your true reason for coming here to him, then probably saying that you are alone becomes the truth, while saying you have a friend with you becomes a lie. It would be pretty cool if outcome of this choice could also depend on your Cool stat, so when it's high enough, you can get away with lying about Jackie and the detector won't even pick it up.
 
Drone deploys. Jackie finds cardboard box and goes snake-mode. Nothing to be seen here, drone.

HA! If only.

If you have chosen to tell Jackie to stay in the car and didn't disclose your true reason for coming here to him, then probably saying that you are alone becomes the truth, while saying you have a friend with you becomes a lie. It would be pretty cool if outcome of this choice could also depend on your Cool stat, so when it's high enough, you can get away with lying about Jackie and the detector won't even pick it up.
Ah, I didn't realize you could tell him to stay in the car, but that's an interesting point.

Oh, and about the Cool stat - chalk that up as another thing I want to see or hear more about at this year's E3. The list grows ever larger. :p
 
Regarding ISS, I don't think we'll have plenty of options, mainly very few scripted events as alternatives to dialogues. Instead of "let's fight" we'll directly have the "grab the gun" option. So I see this innovation more like a way to increase immersion (a lot) and make dialogues a little more interactive than like a great increase of freedom.
 
Most people would not even know what to do with a "great increase of freedom" if it was a thing. They would immediately whine about too much freedom and why they can't figure out what to do...
 
That's exactly what The Witcher series was. Creating a strong narrative experience requires a predetermined story arc (or several arcs) with a clear beginning, middle, and end. If that doesn't exist, there's no way to carefully evolve characters or create the right level of dramatic action at any given moment. This scripted level of interaction is what ensures "scenes" (dialogue, cutscenes, etc.) feel natural and cinematic. As is the case with virtually every, single RPG ever made for PC or consoles. Most table-top modules, as well.

For a video game to offer complete freedom, no predetermined story whatsoever, at any stage, resulting in something that truly lets you go anywhere and do anything at any time for any reason whatsoever -- complete player agency -- you will get no actual narrative at all. The game will simply be a network of mechanics.
That's the 'problem' with 'open world' games. Since the devs have no clue what background, skills, equipment, etc. the character/player will have at any given point in the game (even the very beginning) they have no way to create a tight narrative relevant to your character.

Maybe someday we'll have real-life AIs that will fit in a console (I wouldn't bet on it) and dialog can be dynamically generated.

Most people would not even know what to do with a "great increase of freedom" if it was a thing. They would immediately whine about too much freedom and why they can't figure out what to do...
This is why we have quest markers, automatic pathing, and level based questing areas.

I.E. all the hand-holding that's endemic to modern games.
 
Yeah, this is fun stuff, I read about it. This feature alone is enough to buy the game, almost. I hope it happens randomly. You are walking on the street and bam, interactive scene starts. Randomness is fun to me.
 
I agree, I would love to see the environment really come alive with random happenings. Like a real city. I used to live in SF and the homeless population was nuts, I saw some of the weirdest $tuff daily, gross stuff, sad stuff, wtf stuff, and I'm hoping people in Night City can tap into that raw (barely) human weirdness that comes from a world like this.
 
I agree, I would love to see the environment really come alive with random happenings. Like a real city. I used to live in SF and the homeless population was nuts, I saw some of the weirdest $tuff daily, gross stuff, sad stuff, wtf stuff, and I'm hoping people in Night City can tap into that raw (barely) human weirdness that comes from a world like this.


This definitely has potential, lets say you shoot something, normally you just shoot the dude, but what if some scene starts etc.
 
level based questing areas.
this can be solved by "invisible" scaling of enemies, which has been done several times already and quests could be unlocked only once the system knows your character is strong enough (which not necessarily means levenumber, but also equipment/skills). You don't really need any AI for this, but MS can use the technology of cloud computing for these and other things (crackdown 3), probably with next-gen cloud computing will be used more until it's ubiquitous in games (sony will follow at some point, it bought gaikai years and years ago).
 
Actually, you can show the narrative possibility to the player and let him choose if he's interested in it or not.
Unless you intend to make every story mandatory I don't see the problem actually.

Well, yes and no, depending on whether I'm dealing with the main arc or a side arc at the time. The "main arc" (i.e. the main questline) must have all of its pieces in place or things just won't make sense. It would be like arguing that, in TW3, I could choose never to go to Novigrad, never pusue Ciri, never to meet with Yennifer or Triss...then somehow explore the game's story, meet and watch characters evolve, and resolve the main narrative in an emotionally driven way. Getting there would simply not make any logical sense and/or would carry no dramatic action as Geralt would have no motivation to be in that position at the end.

So -- if I want to create an exciting, driving narrative, I must create a story arc (introduction --> rising action --> climax --> falling action --> resolution) that carefully explores and evolves my characters and plot in meaningful, impactful ways. That, in turn requires certain scenes to occur at certain points so that things are paced in a way that the audience can digest. I can make optional side-quests that add flavor and energy to the world or expand the story arcs of more minor characters, but I can't "skip steps" along the main, narrative arc. All those pieces must be in place or one of two things will happen:

1.) The audience will not have the critical information or context they need at key junctions, resulting in either scenes falling flat or seemingly coming out of nowhere (deus ex machina).

2.) There will be no dramatic action driving my character's motivations. The player may have some sort of motivation in their mind, but there's no way for the game's engine to recognize or respond to it. Therefore, there can be no, cinematic "scene" when the player decides to do this or that. There is no limit to what any player may choose to do at any given instant. There are, however, extremely limited options to how the game's engine can interpret the player's actions. (Hence, the game must now be filled with either stilted, cookie-cutter interactions [ala Mount and Blade] or no interactive scenes or dialogue whatsoever [ala most roguelikes or Minecraft].)

What can be done is a branching narrative. But even narratives that have an insane number of branches (like Detroit: Become Human) are still predetermined, narrative arcs that give the player choices between only a.), b.), or c.) at any moment. It's not possible for the player to come up with their own, creative ideas on-the-fly.

TL; DR:
In the end, it's down to preference, like anything else. I may prefer strong narratives and crave those regular, cinematic scenes. I may prefer more player agency and am willing to forego the cinematics and narratives to maximize it. But I can't have both. On one extreme is a non-interactive movie. On the other extreme is a board game. An RPG must land somewhere in the middle.


That's the 'problem' with 'open world' games. Since the devs have no clue what background, skills, equipment, etc. the character/player will have at any given point in the game (even the very beginning) they have no way to create a tight narrative relevant to your character.

Maybe someday we'll have real-life AIs that will fit in a console (I wouldn't bet on it) and dialog can be dynamically generated.

Exactly. Actually, I'm totally game for 100% sandbox stuff. I think a very popular "game mode" would be playing with the main questline disabled. Just all of the mechanics there, the whole of Night City to explore, and a mess of independent missions and secrets to discover.

Alternatively, it may be cool to have a game mode that offers a series of events that will happen without the player's involvement. Like, perhaps, a massive power-shift between the megacorps. It takes place over 400 game days, and there will be key events that happen on key days...but the player has no idea when or where everything will go down. The goal? Find a way to survive. Whether the player joins one of the factions, pursues their own goals, joins with a team of edgerunners, or keeps their head down to simply observe...the world just keeps ticking around them.

Say a huge battle happens between two factions on day 253. Depending on their choices, players may find themselves in all sorts of interesting positions when the battle breaks out. Maybe they've joined one of the armies and are on the front lines. Maybe they work for one of the corps and will watch that same battle play out from the windows of a high-rise office. Maybe they're a ganger, and they'll run for their lives when the streets around them suddenly erupt into gunfire. (Maybe they're a bunch of edgerunners that were on a mission that caused the battle. ;))

I think an approach like this could work well, as it is inherently a linear storyline. At the same time, it allows for near-complete player agency insofar as how they choose to fit in. It can also allow for in-game weeks of open, sandbox gameplay between key events. And there's no reason a player has to be directly involved in any one part of it. (Maybe they'll wind up simply hearing about that battle on the news...)
 
Exactly. Actually, I'm totally game for 100% sandbox stuff. I think a very popular "game mode" would be playing with the main questline disabled. Just all of the mechanics there, the whole of Night City to explore, and a mess of independent missions and secrets to discover.

That reminds me The Way of The Samurai 4, which can be described as ultimate "choose your adventure" game. Basically the game storyline takes place through a limited amount of days, so if you choose to just screw around and sleep all days without participating in important events, the story just ends without your involvement and then you can continue doing whatever you want, until you decide to leave the place. On top of that, there are multiple story events happening during every day at particular times, but when you got involved in one story event, the time progresses, which means you can't do the other events happening at that time and that has impact on the world, as well as your relationship with the factions. So if you for example see British soldiers harrasing local shop owner and decide to step in, you get better standing with the local antibritish party who wants to keep Japan free of foreign influence, but then you won't be able to do a certain tasks for British, shogunate or probritish party, which were happening around the same time. You are given enough leeway, so you can still improve your standing with one of the factions, even if you already butted heards with them, however there is a limit of course and at some point you can do something that will make one particular party say "screw you, we're not dealing with you anymore". You can also just say "screw it" and leave the city at any point of the story.

While the amount of freedom the game gives you is pretty impressive, it also very small and short game (you can complete entire story in a few hours), but designed with a high replayability in mind. But still at some point I noted that I would like this kind of approach for Cyberpunk (of course, not as short and with more side content), so making the shorter storyline with extremely high replayability focus, however now I realised that this kind of design choice would be met with a lot of negativity, especially after people praised CDPR games (especially Witcher 3 with expansions and Thronebreaker) for the amount of content they offer at just a single playthrough.
 
Well, yes and no, depending on whether I'm dealing with the main arc or a side arc at the time. The "main arc" (i.e. the main questline) must have all of its pieces in place or things just won't make sense. It would be like arguing that, in TW3, I could choose never to go to Novigrad, never pusue Ciri, never to meet with Yennifer or Triss...then somehow explore the game's story, meet and watch characters evolve, and resolve the main narrative in an emotionally driven way. Getting there would simply not make any logical sense and/or would carry no dramatic action as Geralt would have no motivation to be in that position at the end.

So -- if I want to create an exciting, driving narrative, I must create a story arc (introduction --> rising action --> climax --> falling action --> resolution) that carefully explores and evolves my characters and plot in meaningful, impactful ways. That, in turn requires certain scenes to occur at certain points so that things are paced in a way that the audience can digest. I can make optional side-quests that add flavor and energy to the world or expand the story arcs of more minor characters, but I can't "skip steps" along the main, narrative arc. All those pieces must be in place or one of two things will happen:

1.) The audience will not have the critical information or context they need at key junctions, resulting in either scenes falling flat or seemingly coming out of nowhere (deus ex machina).

2.) There will be no dramatic action driving my character's motivations. The player may have some sort of motivation in their mind, but there's no way for the game's engine to recognize or respond to it. Therefore, there can be no, cinematic "scene" when the player decides to do this or that. There is no limit to what any player may choose to do at any given instant. There are, however, extremely limited options to how the game's engine can interpret the player's actions. (Hence, the game must now be filled with either stilted, cookie-cutter interactions [ala Mount and Blade] or no interactive scenes or dialogue whatsoever [ala most roguelikes or Minecraft].)

What can be done is a branching narrative. But even narratives that have an insane number of branches (like Detroit: Become Human) are still predetermined, narrative arcs that give the player choices between only a.), b.), or c.) at any moment. It's not possible for the player to come up with their own, creative ideas on-the-fly.

TL; DR:
In the end, it's down to preference, like anything else. I may prefer strong narratives and crave those regular, cinematic scenes. I may prefer more player agency and am willing to forego the cinematics and narratives to maximize it. But I can't have both. On one extreme is a non-interactive movie. On the other extreme is a board game. An RPG must land somewhere in the middle.

What you say makes sense, but for a character based main story. But not every main story have to be character based. A main story can also be event based.
The difference is that in the first case the character does things because he wants to (even if the player disagree with the character, creating dissonance and destroying immersion), in the second case the character does things because he doesn't have a choice.
In both case the character end up being forced doing things, but the event based main story have the advantage of not forcing any kind of character on the player to works, while the character based main story have the advantage of being easier to write (as unlike event based story you can talk about anything as the player is forced to comply anyway).
Of course, as I'm not the one writing the story, I care more about immersion than about easy writing.

Actually the problem is that it seems C2077 didn't choose between defined character + character based story and custom character + event based story, that's what is creating some problems, as people are lead to thinks they can create their character while in the end it's not really the case.
 
What you say makes sense, but for a character based main story. But not every main story have to be character based. A main story can also be event based.
The difference is that in the first case the character does things because he wants to (even if the player disagree with the character, creating dissonance and destroying immersion), in the second case the character does things because he doesn't have a choice.
In both case the character end up being forced doing things, but the event based main story have the advantage of not forcing any kind of character on the player to works, while the character based main story have the advantage of being easier to write (as unlike event based story you can talk about anything as the player is forced to comply anyway).
Of course, as I'm not the one writing the story, I care more about immersion than about easy writing.

Actually the problem is that it seems C2077 didn't choose between defined character + character based story and custom character + event based story, that's what is creating some problems, as people are lead to thinks they can create their character while in the end it's not really the case.

I never had my immersion destroyed while playing the Witcher 3, aside from a few bugs and one or two story gaffes.
 
That's the 'problem' with 'open world' games. Since the devs have no clue what background, skills, equipment, etc. the character/player will have at any given point in the game (even the very beginning) they have no way to create a tight narrative relevant to your character.

Actually there is a way to do it: write a story that works with any character, aka most of the time either:
-Something happens to the character which force him into action.
-There is something unknown to the character himself which force him into action.

(Being the son of Baal) and having people trying to kill you because of that.
(Being the Dovakiin) and having the world about to end unless you take care of that.
Someone showing up at your execution, leaving you the choice between accepting a quest spell or being beheaded.
Waking up with a cerebral bomb and a message on your answering machine.
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I never had my immersion destroyed while playing the Witcher 3, aside from a few bugs and one or two story gaffes.

It's normal, you were playing an imposed character, so anything he would do never was out of character to begin with.
That's why I wrote:"Actually the problem is that it seems C2077 didn't choose between defined character + character based story and custom character + event based story, that's what is creating some problems, as people are lead to thinks they can create their character while in the end it's not really the case. "
 
While the amount of freedom the game gives you is pretty impressive, it also very small and short game (you can complete entire story in a few hours), but designed with a high replayability in mind.

Mm-hm! I've never played that one, but that's exactly the type of thing that I think would be really engaging to play. I've argued for years that a great way to do an RPG would be to create an adventure that offers a completely unique pathway through the main story depending on the "role" the player plays. So, take a simple plot: two feuding kingdoms, a civil war, the crown hangs in the balance. Player creates a character, and that will dictate "how" they experience the story.
  • A warrior would be in one army or the other and it would play out like a war story. The player would start out as a grunt, and maybe lead the army one day.
  • A ranger would serve as a scout, pressing into enemy territory and remaining on the fringes of battle for support.
  • A mage might serve in the court, dealing with intrigue and calling down crazy powerful magic to support the battles.
  • A thief may be hired to infiltrate the enemy's lands and gather intel like a spy.
  • A cleric may serve as a healer and remain behind the front lines blessing weapons and supporting the battle where the ranks start to waver.
Etc.

Each character would be a unique plotline thorugh the game. A small piece of the much larger story. I think a system like the ISS would work wonders for things like that. Plus, each complete playthrough could be about 10 hours, and still offer a number of branches and pathways to numerous endings.

Perhaps, it would be cool to try out a system like that as a DLC or something for a game like CP2077. Shorter adventures, between 5-10 hours specifically catered to unique experiences and pathways based on whether the player is a solo, netrunner, etc.


What you say makes sense, but for a character based main story. But not every main story have to be character based. A main story can also be event based.
The difference is that in the first case the character does things because he wants to (even if the player disagree with the character, creating dissonance and destroying immersion), in the second case the character does things because he doesn't have a choice.
In both case the character end up being forced doing things, but the event based main story have the advantage of not forcing any kind of character on the player to works, while the character based main story have the advantage of being easier to write (as unlike event based story you can talk about anything as the player is forced to comply anyway).
Of course, as I'm not the one writing the story, I care more about immersion than about easy writing.

Actually the problem is that it seems C2077 didn't choose between defined character + character based story and custom character + event based story, that's what is creating some problems, as people are lead to thinks they can create their character while in the end it's not really the case.

Right, but the whole point of the Interactive Scene System is to "tell a branching, narrative story in a cinematic way". That means, I can only create so many scenes for one particular encounter or circumstance, and the player will need to select from among those options. If they want to do something else -- there's no scene for that. There's no recorded dialogues...no motion captured performaces...no element of the story that can account for that "made-up" choice.

So if I were to create a completely open-ended adventure that lets the player pick and choose every last detail, kiss any form of detailed dialogue and cinematics goodbye. I could make the game react to it in terms of yes / no, good / bad, friend / enemy / neutral, but I can't have that play out as an acted, interactive scene.

(To make a scene, I need to write a script and act it out. That requires a scripted series of events. That automatically limits options.)
 
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