They didn't put a huge emphasis on it = they no longer care for it.
Sounds like sound logic.
Considering that emphasis is neither, big, average nor small. It's next to none, I would say.... Yes?
There is nothing in the TW3 to prove the contrary, The most you see of them is in Gwent.
And it was CDPR themselves that put the phrase in the game. Not me.
You are kidding, right? You apparently do not know Roche's character at all. Do you think Roche would be the commander of a special unit if he were hot headed? Ves is hot headed, not Roche. You can clearly see that in the quest of TW3 where Roche spares a Nilfgaardian soldier to further his own plans. Roche is first and foremost a patriot and on the large scale Temeria matters, not the Scoia'tael. Roche would never burn down elven villages (which do not exist in the game anyways) and certainly would not do a genocide, simply out of vengeance. Are some of you even trying to make sound arguments?
When they made sense plotwise. The Scoia'tael weren't even a real threat in the first and second game without the help of someone - in most cases Geralt. And whenever they were relevant, it was in a regional context. Temeria, Vergen, Kaedwen. Now the north is fighting against Nilfgaard. On that scale the Scoia'tael are like ants. Considering how stupid most of the Scoia'tael are, they probably attacked Nilfgaardian troops and paid the price for it too. I feel like CDPR is the only one that cares and evaluates. Most people here just care, but actually do not care if it would make sense plotwise. Iorveth used to be ingame and they took him out. I am pretty sure they had good reason for it.
And that phrase explains perfectly why the Scoia'tale make no sense to be involved in the plot. TW3 happens on a much larger scale than the first two games did. Comparing the forces involved, the Scoia'tael are hardly are force to be reckoned.
Isengrim is in the game as a card only. Sure, you can change Iorveth, but what would his business be in TW3? Kill Radovid? For what reason? None of you have given a decent example of Iorveth - or the Scoia'tael for that matter- being relevant in the third game's plot.
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Plot of a larger scale means the inclusion of more parties, if a party or a group is then excluded the story should communicate clearly why that is. Which this game does not.
If that is what happened then it is one example of the things the game should have communicated to the player. Not leave all of it up for speculation and assumptions.
Wrong. When the big boys pull out their big guns, the little guy cannot compete. How in heaven's name is the Scoia'tael supposed to keep up with literally whole continents waging war against each other? Infantery, cavalry, artillery against a couple of elven archers sitting in trees. C'mon now, their best choice of action is to retreat.
The Witcher series is a game for adults. If an adult cannot figure out that a little guerilla resistance force - hardly organized or equipped - cannot compete with literally two big ass countries, then I am sorry, but this one's on the player. The Scoia'tael were always dependent on something or someone. In TW1 they were dependent on Foltest granting their demands, just to have them stripped the second he changed his mind. In TW2 they needed Geralt, Saskia and a whole state to be of any relevance. In TW3 there weren't needed for any big party involved, so their relevance vanished.
I mean, the game does communicate this on several occasions. There is a quest, where you find out that the Scoia'tael are attacking human caravans so they can survive in the woods --> How the hell do you expect them to play any major role in the bigger picture? They cannot even survive out there on their own.
You see several squirrel camps scattered across the map, literally implying that they are there but hold no power whatsoever.
Even the Redanian soldier/witch hunter acts surprised when you tell him the Scoia'tael are behind the attacks on the caravans, because he thought they have been eradicated already. Ask Roche, he'll tell you the insignificance of the Scoia'tael in the current situation.
I do not know how many more hints one needs to conclude the Scoia'tael are nowhere near to being relevant for the game.
The game does not need to tell you everything. It require you to read between the lines, to think for yourself. Otherwise you are turning the Witcher saga into another average RPG for the masses.
Nobody told us who Ciri was before TW3 and one was able figure it out by simply playing the game. The Witcher series is good, because it did not spoon feed you everything. Why should it change with the third game just because some seem to have a hard time to use logic/ use strawmans to argue the validity of their opinion.
But for the sake of discussion, let's pretend the Scoia'tael are in some position of power. What should they do? Join forces with Radovid and defend the North? Yeaaaaah, no. If TW1 Scoia'tael-Ending taught us anything, then it would be that monarch's cannot be trusted. Especially not the Mad King, who did not stop killing another monarch simply because he wanted total control. They'd be used as tools and disposed as such.
Should they join Nilfgaard and help them conquer the North in return for some kind of deal? They've been used as pawns once by Nilfgaard already, so I really doubt they'd go for that a second time.
Should they act as an independent, third force? That'd be stupid beyond any reason from a tactical standpoint and not fitting with the idea of choosing between two evils in The Witcher. Iorveth and Saskia simply have no place in this. Their place was in the Pontar Valley and that one got run over by Nilfgaard already.
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I'm not being asked to be spoon-fed (yes this wouldn't be good either) but at least be told something so I can from there start to fill in the blanks. CDPR made my preferred TW2 save file (Iorveth path) entirely pointless and I just wish the game could at least try to justify why that happened.
Everyone could understand who Ciri was in TW3 even though she was completely absent and barely mentioned at all in earlier titles because they actually took the time to establish her character and the connection between her and Geralt when introducing her (and thank god they did). Obviously they didn't go through everything about her character but she didn't just show up out out of nowhere expecting the player to figure everything out on their own.
Are you fucking serious?
First of all, for what reason? When Radovid is clearly burning all kind of nonhumans in the entire North? And second, i'm really tired to write all over again the same shit things to every random guy who comes here without reading a thing of this thread. If you read the books and your brain works you can figure it out.
Free City of Novigrad ------> New Vergen/Upper Aedirn
https://youtu.be/EEGa3CSs02A?t=13m54s
King of Beggars/Cleaver/Dijkstra --------> Isengrim and Iorveth with his Scoiat'ael
https://youtu.be/EEGa3CSs02A?t=14m40s
And to those who keeps whining about "it's too difficult to bring him in the game herp derp hurr durr!11!!!"
Blood and WIne Spoiler
When they fucking managed to bring back Regis. I mean come on, REGIS.
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iorveth mention that roche
[video]https://youtu.be/OHozNk3JBdA?t=5m36s[/video]
Roche's revenge on deathmold
I don't think that you are right here, when two huge armies are clashing no one taking any notice the small guerilla pockets in the forest, big armies will not waste resources in order to find those pockets. large armies are noisy maneuver slowly while the the elves are agile, know every path in the forest and can easily lead the army to an ambush/monster layer. Another thing this war can be a huge gift to the Scoia'tael, they can easily ambush caravans in order to get supplies and weapons (even in the game the redenians thought a monster attacked their caravans), ambush patrolling guards and use their armor in order to attack the opposite faction villages, all they need to do is leave enough evidence to incriminate the other faction. Even in our world armies find it very hard to defeat guerilla fighters,It is unlikely that redenia defeated the Scoia'tael hiding in the forest in 6 months while fighting nilfgaard is not logical while nilfgaard have a base camp larger then novigrad I don't believe that redenia have a squad of none humans that are searching and decimating the Scoia'tael.
The same goes for any type of emphasis.
Yesterday, I put a large emphasis on working my arms out.
Today, I didn't.
Ergo, I no longer care about working my arms out, and I have changed as a human being.
This is the logic that I'm seeing get used.
Not the same at all as you will have a great amount of chances to train your arms. Witcher 3 is the last game of the trilogy meant to tie everything together and to a close and there is no more additional content coming, that is why this becomes an issue.
Let me correct that analogy for you
"Yesterday, I put a large emphasis on working my arms out.
Today, I didn't, and hmm, You know what? I'm not going to take advantage of the chances I have left to put emphasis on training my arms from today forth"
Here I would definitely argue you obviously no longer care about training your arms.
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Tie everything together?
Some people care about characters from the books that didn't appear in the games, but I haven't heard a peep from them. See, in my opinion, Iorveth was a cheap version of Isengrim. I really like the latter, and am totally disinterested in the former. I'm sure a number of the books fans felt that way. But, why didn't I start a thread about how great Isengrim is, and why he should be in the game, you ask? Well, because C.D.P.R. didn't feel like forcing him into the game would add much to the plot. In fact, it would have probably detracted from it. Much like how it would have with Iorveth.
Fans can create all of the examples they want of how they could have squeezed Iorveth into the game, but, so far, all of the ones that I've heard scream of low-quality writing. Why, you ask? Because, when fan-service becomes to extreme that you have to conform the game's plot to it, the quality suffers.
Edit: actually, that is untrue. There ARE other opportunities to finish Iorveth's story. There's Gwent, future Witcher titles, comics, etc..
Which ones, and why.
Also tell me your thoughts about this i wrote above here:
Hmm, I don't know.... maybe because CDPR didn't put any emphasis on that character to begin with?
Why we care about Iorveth is because is because CDPR previously put in a lot of effort to make sure that we cared about him as a character..
Many of us are not writers and it can't be expected that the fans should write the story for them. Also I would argue that the inclusion of Letho was done in a way of fan service.
Was is super satisfactory? Maybe not.
Was in better than no Letho at all? (In my opion) Hell yes!
Well considering future Witcher titles will not even be about Geralt I see that as unlikely. Impossible? No, but still very unlikely.
Many fans of the Witcher games might not even care about comics or heck, even Gwent for that matter as it was only an optional mini- game. Also CDPR themselves said they would only include Iorveth when it makes justice to the character. This may just be me here but I don't see the inclusion of him in a spin-off title not even in the same genre or in a comic book strip as "making justice to the character".
I'd be happy to. I'll check them out right now.
Edit: actually, my computer is incredibly slow, right now (It's a true piece of junk.). Would you mind either summing them up for me, or linking me to something that doesn't involve videos?
---------- Updated at 08:06 PM ----------
Regarding Isengrim vs. Iorveth: but, is the whole series not based on the prose of Andrezj Sapkowski? Most of the games' characters were from his books, but many of his characters were not included.
Regarding Letho: yes, he was include, but, firstly, it was super fan-servicy. Secondly, it didn't stick out like a sore thumb. And, thirdly, it had little to no baring on the plot (It was rather insignificant, to say the least.).
Regarding future titles: I can guarantee you that if the Witcher series returns to Verden and Upper Aedirn, we will see more of this thread's titular characters.
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Hey I chose Iorveth path too, but I achieved what I wanted in TW2: A free Vergen. Both path's were entirely pointless in retrospect.
Again, Iorveth was never about saving random nonhumans, he was about reaching his goal. If he would've changed to that in TW3, there would literally be no point to him anymore. He'd just be another Yaevinn with attitude (surprised that nobody wants that fella back). Additionally nonhumans are only killed if you help Triss escape.
And you do not have to write it all over again, just copy pasta it. I mean, you cannot expect me to go through 85 pages. I read like the first 10, but there should've been a collection of suggestions in the beginning post. Seeing what has been suggested on the last pages and on some other threads, I can deduct no
And what exactly is this supposed to indicate? Honestly asking, because I got no clue. Why would Iorveth go to Novigrad and fight for its indepencency when the Black Ones and Redania are knocking on Novigrad's door? Especially after they lost Vergen, he'd go for another liberation? Even the liberation of Vergen was only because of Saskia. Without Saskia I doubt he'd even agree to such a plan, when Nilfgaard is marching towards that city. How do you expect some little guerilla task force to hold that place against both parties? Last time they at least had a dragon, a witcher and a sorceress. This time they are strangers in this place and I highly doubt they'd even get the local's support.
I think you mistake warfare for personal vengeance (Iorveth's speech). Deathmold and Henselt were personal, I agree. But Roche's revenge is always connected to the person that did him wrong. He wouldn't burn down any villages or kill innocent elves, just because Iorveth and Letho killed his king. Following this logic he'd have to kill Geralt too, since the Kingslayer was a witcher.
It's not like people do not know the squirrel's modus operandi, right? They hide in forests and attack civilian caravans. If any of the two armies really gave a shit about the squirrels, they'd simply burn the forest down. Just like they did in our world. You forget that the Mad King is still a decent tactician. Incriminating the other party of the crimes the Scoia'tael did has no significance. I mean Redania and Nilfgaard are already waging war against each other. The only reason why the witch hunter did not think of the Scoia'tael was because they thought they've been eradicated once and for all.
Guerilla warfare is effective, but you need a tactician and indicentally the Scoia'tael lack exactly that. The blue stripes have Roche and that is why they got their demands granted in the end. Scoia'tael operate mostly on hate. Sometimes it's difficult to even distingiush if they are trying to reach anything else than gratification from their acts. They are not an organized movement, have no economical influence/foundation, no sponsor, nothing.
All of you overestimate the Scoia'tael's power. Even in the last two games the Scoia'tael's achievements weren't of their own doing. The assassinations were done by witchers, the liberation of Vergen by Saskia, even the temporary agreement with Foltest was achieved by Geralt. The Scoia'tael were never a threat on their own.
Actually, if you do not do that, then Radovid cannot be assassinated (the plot begins only when you complete Now or Never) and he wins the war, so he will have plenty of time to kill non-humans once not enough mages are left. It does not happen during the game, but it is shown on the ending slides:
Dandelion: With victory in the war against Nilfgaard secured, Radovid proceeded to complete his witch hunt.
Dandelion: As they had in Novigrad, pyres burned in Temeria and Aedirn, lands now "liberated" by the Redanian monarch. In the drive for moral renewal, simple herbalists, pellars, healers and nonhumans - all supposed heretics - were murdered in droves.
Dandelion: For many, freedom beneath Radovid's scepter proved more tragic than servitude to another.
Dandelion: As they had in Novigrad, pyres burned in Temeria and Aedirn, lands now "liberated" by the Redanian monarch. In the drive for moral renewal, simple herbalists, pellars, healers and nonhumans - all supposed heretics - were murdered in droves.
Dandelion: For many, freedom beneath Radovid's scepter proved more tragic than servitude to another.
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Omg... For the same reason all the mages went there, because it's supposed to be an independent safe city. Free from any control of these 2 forces.
Otherwise, in the entire Northern Kingdoms, where da fak the Scoiat'ael should go? When everything is controlled by Redania or Nilfgaard? Ffs.
How? Let's do some counts. Boss crimes of Novigrad and their criminal organisations (Dijkstra,Cleaver and King of Beggars) + Novigrad fleet and the shitload of gold which lies in this city + all the Scoiat'ael units existing in the north + the population itself of Novigrad including both humans and nonhumans. (Reminds you something? Vergen maybe?)
Was that difficult to understand that Novigrad would prepare itself for an invasion? With the help of the Scoiat'ael and the boss crimes to remain "independent"? CDPR thoughout the game tells so much about Novigrad that has always been free with his incredible walls and blah blah blah but poof in 1 months is conquered by Nilfgaard or Redania. And Novigrad itself didn't even try to fight back. Lame as fuck and completely nonsense. We needed another Novigrad ending where it managed to remain independent.
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I felt like the epilogue of the Witcher 2 made it pretty clear that this was going to be the case. Nilfgaard invades regardless, making your choices superfluous. I wasn't expecting the path you chose in Witcher 2 to greatly effect Witcher 3.
Having said that I did expect Iorveth and Saskia to be involved in some side quests. I personally thought it would be something to do with Phillippa before-hand - and nothing with the war. I agree that otherwise explaining his presence in the Novigrad area seems like a stretch. But if you make it a Saskia / Phillippa / Iorveth plot where either (1) Iorveth is seeking to free Saskia from Phillippa if Saskia lived but was not freed, (2) Iorveth is seeking revenge if Saskia was killed, or (3) Iorveth and Saskia are tracking Phillippa down if Saskia was freed in TW2, then his presences makes sense. Maybe forcing us to make a choice between Phillippa and Iorveth at some point. That was what I originally thought it would be (as it would just be one quest line - not main plot related really). It would make sense that Iorveth was in Redania - because that's where Phillippa ran. If Saskia joined in, it could easily be explained by Vergen having already fallen to Nilfgaard.
[EDIT]: Oh and in case you went Roche - you obviously can't do the third option above, but either of the first two options would be available. It would also involve a different meeting with Iorveth where you could fight him, and if you end up killing him the rest of the quest line is unavailable. If Iorveth dies obviously this whole quest-line is unavailable. [END OF EDIT]
It would have been fun, but what is done is done.
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