Yeah, but it's super abstract. By the time we realized that Iorveth's quest wasn't working (he was actually a secondary character in a much bigger story about the war) it was way too late to add something new. About the only thing we'd have had time to do would have been to put his dead body somewhere with a note, which was suggested. I think that would have been a pretty poor conclusion to his story, so it was better to just leave him unresolved.
For an idea of what we need to do to even add a small quest. First I need to draft the quest in paper, get approval from quest lead and the director. This can actually take a couple of weeks, longer if the quest is important. Level design, environment art, character art, audio, cinematics, animation all need to get asset requests. For a small quest I'd try to avoid making more than one new character request, more than 2-3 locations. Some of the assets will go to outsource, most will be done in house.
While that's taking place (months and months of work) the quest and story teams draft the quest. This can take a while, since a lot of stuff that works on paper doesn't work in game, for many many possible reasons.
Once story is done, the text goes to localization (our writers all write in PL). From there lines are translated into a dozen languages, then sent to the studio to get actors to perform them. Those lines flow back to audio and cinematics, who put them into the game and make sure they sound right.
Meanwhile QA and quest bug-fix and iterate on the quest, basically until we ship. This includes bugs of course, but also general feedback. During this phase entire locations might be moved or redone, characters change, etc, and each team needs to respond to each change. So if QA realizes that we made a mistake and *actually* this character shouldn't say this or this... also he should have a red sash instead of a blue one... also his house is in a swamp and it needs to be in the forest... etc. Each of those changes means that different teams need to jump in. Textual changes are particularly nasty because it means literally hundreds of people, producers, translators, managers, actors, directors, audio technicians, cinematic artists, etc, all have to deal with it.
So I mean, in the super abstract, yes, you are right. Giving Iorveth his own side quest wouldn't have been hard. Actually, we gave him a huge quest and multiple side quests and it was even playable*. But it got cut and it wouldn't have been simple to replace it at that stage of the project.
*Asterix to remind you that as a dev, my definition of playable is not the same as yours. No one who hasn't worked in gamedev really has any idea how janky and ugly games are until very very late in development.
That's an interesting read!
Still as I've mentioned many times already, they should have focused on realizing this much more intriguing story line than on the repetitive monster hunts for example.
Non-human content is basically non-existent in Witcher 3 so I think even newcomers would have appreciated this story line.
And then there's 2 DLCs which were the perfect chance to make up for this mistake, especially with HoS since it's taking place in Velen, both unused.
And no Enhanced Edition is coming
so I guess Gwent Solo Campaign will have to do.
My wish for Witcher 4 would be for CDPR to learn from their mistakes, look at Dragon Age Keep and take notes. That's how you do a game series with choices that actually matter in the next installment.
But I fear that now that the trilogy is over, when Witcher 4 arrives, we'll get the "it's a whole new story" spiel so nothing we did in Witcher 3 (let alone 2 or 1) will matter again. I really hope I'm wrong.
Still as I've mentioned many times already, they should have focused on realizing this much more intriguing story line than on the repetitive monster hunts for example.
Non-human content is basically non-existent in Witcher 3 so I think even newcomers would have appreciated this story line.
And then there's 2 DLCs which were the perfect chance to make up for this mistake, especially with HoS since it's taking place in Velen, both unused.
And no Enhanced Edition is coming
so I guess Gwent Solo Campaign will have to do.My wish for Witcher 4 would be for CDPR to learn from their mistakes, look at Dragon Age Keep and take notes. That's how you do a game series with choices that actually matter in the next installment.
But I fear that now that the trilogy is over, when Witcher 4 arrives, we'll get the "it's a whole new story" spiel so nothing we did in Witcher 3 (let alone 2 or 1) will matter again. I really hope I'm wrong.
Toyen;n7658000 said:
I suspect the expansion stories were already planned by the time Iorveth's quests were cut, so it would not have been easy to change them. As the quote in TheImpZA's post says, adding new content to the game takes a long time, that is why there are mostly just cuts late in the development.
I would have rather low expectations regarding the quality of the save import in a hypothetical new game, given how it did not improve in TW3 despite the criticism. Thus, it might be for the better if it was really a completely new story where choices made in Wild Hunt are simply not relevant, although that might not improve the chances of Iorveth appearing in particular. I do recall it being mentioned in another thread that the next game (if any) would not be called "Witcher 4", and it would not be a continuation of the current story line, but it can still end up being anything.
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Riven-Twain;n7660540 said:
Patrick Mills.
Some more:
One last one:
I'm still hoping that one day someone gives a more detailed plot overview (would Iorveth have died? That comment in the final game about the uber-roche fixer and iorveth's curse being lifted might make more sense if he was involved in a Catriona outbreak), but this is most likely the best we'll ever get.
Sad that things didn't turn out differently. I think that this storyline had massive potential.
Va fail, Iorveth.
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Reading this makes me sooo sad
It all seems extremely interesting compared to what actually remained in the game which in contrast to the original concept seems very blank and "meh".
I mean this is the PERFECT material for Enhanced Edition
Also, no info regarding Saskia's involvement? I mean her voice actress is in the game but judging by what we know so far, she probably would not have appeared and we would only learn of her fate via conversations with Iorveth and Philippa.
It all seems extremely interesting compared to what actually remained in the game which in contrast to the original concept seems very blank and "meh".
I mean this is the PERFECT material for Enhanced Edition
Also, no info regarding Saskia's involvement? I mean her voice actress is in the game but judging by what we know so far, she probably would not have appeared and we would only learn of her fate via conversations with Iorveth and Philippa.
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sv3672;n7665580 said:
So now that we know that Iorveth was involved in the plague questline, how do you think it would have fit in to what was already there in the docs? It's really interesting that this would have also somehow involved Gaunter / Master Mirror.
EDIT: It's mentioned that Martin Krafft Ebbing would join with, or summon a demonic force later in the quest...that could have been Mirror I guess.
Toyen;n7668120 said:Reading this makes me sooo sad
It all seems extremely interesting compared to what actually remained in the game which in contrast to the original concept seems very blank and "meh".
I mean this is the PERFECT material for Enhanced Edition
Also, no info regarding Saskia's involvement? I mean her voice actress is in the game but judging by what we know so far, she probably would not have appeared and we would only learn of her fate via conversations with Iorveth and Philippa.
Sorry Toyen, I don't think that Saskia was ever planned to be in the game. :/ Hearing about the original plan, that plague quest was massive, involving a bunch of characters. You can't have everyone, after all, and it's possible she was busy dealing with this plague hitting Vergen.
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I think that regarding his curse, he might have gotten a deal with Gaunter in exchange for clues about the Catriona cure and then it was up to Roche and Geralt to try and save Iorveth before Gaunter comes to take his soul.
Which would have been very interesting to see Iorveth and Roche maybe finally make peace in the end.
And all this probably got replaced with the new story line involving Olgierd and Shani etc.
As much as I loved HoS and the Shani cameo, I still think the original would have been a better choice! : )
Which would have been very interesting to see Iorveth and Roche maybe finally make peace in the end.
And all this probably got replaced with the new story line involving Olgierd and Shani etc.
As much as I loved HoS and the Shani cameo, I still think the original would have been a better choice! : )
Brothers and sisters,don't give up! There is hope that they might someday give us the Iorveth we want. If not in this game,then they'll release a witcher game based around him and the scoia'tel!Remember,no character murder is left unpunished #JUSTICEFORIORVETH.
Also here's some stuff about Iorveth's development
Iorveth's role was quite important to the original script from 2014. He was a main character
He was cut from the game somewhere around Feb 2014, along with a bunch of other content. He would have appeared in at least 6 quests (Pyres of Novigrad. Get Junior, a deleted large Novigrad side-quest titled sq305-Scoia'tael, another cut one called sq309-Investigation, The Battle of Spoiler, and Final Preparations). Geralt would find him in Novigrad. sq309-Investigation would have involved him hiding in a basement of a house in the non-human district, playing his flute (using the same song - Stella Splendens - from his intro in TW2). The in-progress asset list was very particular about that song, that quest would have also featured an Elven Portal, it's not specified what it would be used for.
A part of the cut Scoia'tael side quest would have involved Isengrim and two other Scoia'tael commanders. The only one that actually made it into the game was Vernossiel, the commander in the Woodland Beast quest. I doubt that was her original role, as Woodland Beast isn't mentioned in the 2014 files.
He would helped Geralt find Triss too. They would go to her house together. This makes a lot of sense depending on your choices in TW2, as Triss can save his life in the epilogue. No doubt that he would have felt that he owed her one. He would also have had connections with the criminal underground, knowing both The King of Beggars and Cleaver. They would also have been dialogue scenes with Roche, Iorveth and Geralt at the docks. A bug report from the Alpha states that the writers needed to further explain the relationship dynamic between them, and why they wanted to kill each other. (spotkanie z Iorwethem - musimy jasno okreslic relacje Roche-Iorweth, chca sie zabic? jakie sa miedzy niemi relacja?)
He was also listed in the in progress Prima Guide.
CDPR also said that he would be in the game.
CDPR never changed the file names because logically, they thought no one would ever see them. Ves was actually only added in late 2014, replacing Iorveth in two KM scenes. It's my speculation that he would have Spoiler
All of this is also why there's a Scoia'tael Gwent deck in-game, when the Scoia'tael themselves don't actually appear. They were meant to at one point, and the Gwent art was completed quite early into development. Unfortunately, the REDs refuse to comment to me on why they were cut so late.
Also here's some stuff about Iorveth's development
Iorveth's role was quite important to the original script from 2014. He was a main character
He was cut from the game somewhere around Feb 2014, along with a bunch of other content. He would have appeared in at least 6 quests (Pyres of Novigrad. Get Junior, a deleted large Novigrad side-quest titled sq305-Scoia'tael, another cut one called sq309-Investigation, The Battle of Spoiler, and Final Preparations). Geralt would find him in Novigrad. sq309-Investigation would have involved him hiding in a basement of a house in the non-human district, playing his flute (using the same song - Stella Splendens - from his intro in TW2). The in-progress asset list was very particular about that song, that quest would have also featured an Elven Portal, it's not specified what it would be used for.
A part of the cut Scoia'tael side quest would have involved Isengrim and two other Scoia'tael commanders. The only one that actually made it into the game was Vernossiel, the commander in the Woodland Beast quest. I doubt that was her original role, as Woodland Beast isn't mentioned in the 2014 files.
He would helped Geralt find Triss too. They would go to her house together. This makes a lot of sense depending on your choices in TW2, as Triss can save his life in the epilogue. No doubt that he would have felt that he owed her one. He would also have had connections with the criminal underground, knowing both The King of Beggars and Cleaver. They would also have been dialogue scenes with Roche, Iorveth and Geralt at the docks. A bug report from the Alpha states that the writers needed to further explain the relationship dynamic between them, and why they wanted to kill each other. (spotkanie z Iorwethem - musimy jasno okreslic relacje Roche-Iorweth, chca sie zabic? jakie sa miedzy niemi relacja?)
He was also listed in the in progress Prima Guide.
CDPR also said that he would be in the game.
Everyone will appear in a little bit of different situation than in TW2. For example, time's are changing, and there is no Scoia'tael like there was before. Iorveth is also not the man he was before.
The file names for the dialogue scenes between Letho, Roche and Ves in-game are actually still called 'content8/quests/part_2/quest_files/q403_battle/scenes/q403_10_letho_vs_roche_iorweth.w2scene'. Iorweth is the Polish name for Iorveth.CDPR never changed the file names because logically, they thought no one would ever see them. Ves was actually only added in late 2014, replacing Iorveth in two KM scenes. It's my speculation that he would have Spoiler
All of this is also why there's a Scoia'tael Gwent deck in-game, when the Scoia'tael themselves don't actually appear. They were meant to at one point, and the Gwent art was completed quite early into development. Unfortunately, the REDs refuse to comment to me on why they were cut so late.
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Dalayos;n8402800 said:
Don't waste your words. They don't give a crap about that. Just think that they have sold 25 million copies of TW3 and around 85% of them are console players. This means that most of their new fans don't know who was Iorveth and doesn't care about the character. To the best of my knowledge, If the character is not profitable they wouldn't bother on doing another game or DLC about him. Actually, they haven't done anything that wasn't in their original plans (the main game, the two DLC and the patches)
In any case, is good to see that people still care about this topic
And, speaking of other things, here is a good video made with Holgar's mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIGpKjq5xWw
Sam2305;n8408640 said:
Well can't really give up hope that quickly even if you know how iit all ends,rather not see it that way and keep up hope that someday they might either make a witcher game based on Scoi'atel as main characters or they decided to release someday an enhanced edition with all the cut off content with it(Kovir,Iorveth,monsters,etc).
I still wonder why they went through the effort
in creating a useless Nilfgaardian base outside Velen and Novigrad but they never bothered inserting Iorveth or the Scoiatel?
Heck Iorveth was replaced with Vex in 2 cutscenes. I thank you for that mod,it might indeed restore me hope and I hope someday modders will create an even more believable Iorveth mode that will pretty much satisfy my lack of Elves haha! I'm not gonna give up just yet, fans do have a loud voice!
The only way to re-introduce them both to the story in Witcher 4 is only if CDPR does the Dragon Age Keep thing and allows players to import decisions from all 3 previous games to shape Witcher 4's world state since they were absent in W3.
The biggest decisions will be The Witcher 3 ones obviously (who won the war, fate of Ciri etc), they can't ignore those.
Reintroducing Iorveth will be easy considering he survives the events of W2 no matter what.
Reintroducing Saskia will be harder because she can die, unless they resurrect her like Thaler and once again break the lore.
Reintroducing queen Adda will also be hard since they ignored her completely in Witcher 3 plus they did the horrible and nonsensical Djikstra ending.
Reintroducing the Lodge shouldn't be too hard since their ending was very open at the end of W3.
Francesca will be introduced as a new character for the first time and Keira might make a small cameo depending on whether she survived with Lambert.
We'll see but I'm not holding my breath.
The biggest decisions will be The Witcher 3 ones obviously (who won the war, fate of Ciri etc), they can't ignore those.
Reintroducing Iorveth will be easy considering he survives the events of W2 no matter what.
Reintroducing Saskia will be harder because she can die, unless they resurrect her like Thaler and once again break the lore.
Reintroducing queen Adda will also be hard since they ignored her completely in Witcher 3 plus they did the horrible and nonsensical Djikstra ending.
Reintroducing the Lodge shouldn't be too hard since their ending was very open at the end of W3.
Francesca will be introduced as a new character for the first time and Keira might make a small cameo depending on whether she survived with Lambert.
We'll see but I'm not holding my breath.