iluminatae said:I'd like the option to not follow either of them and instead go assassinate kings with letho...
Crikey! Geralt serving Nilfgaard...iluminatae said:I join you there... Imagine the tandem Geralt-Letho: would be amazing... but a little boring... what kind of enemiy could face them?
Meh, on Roche's path, I ended up talking with Henselt and Dethmold more than Roche.endtherapture said:
It is true that the Geralt / Roche bromance starts with Act 2, due to the very different nature and roles that Iorveth and Roche have. But I would not say that Iorveth's path is Philippa's based only on us talking to Philippa more.
BIG SPOILERS AHEAD!KnightofPhoenix said:
With Roche path he was always around, actively involved in the plot eg with the Conspiracy against Henselt. We could also interact with the Blue Stripes and Ves, and have several important conversation and plot developments with Roche.
With Iorveth...well I arrived with him...then had one conversation with him in his camp...then he disappeared for most of the act whilst I was doing stuff with Philippa and the Dwarves. Then the battle came...and he still didn't show up, so I was with Saskia for most of that. Then finally, right at the end of Act 2 we go Loc Muinne together, have 5 minutes together, then he disappears again to do nothing (I took Triss' path).
Iorveth's path makes it very hard NOT to go for Triss in Act 3, because it shows you she's being tortured in the Nilfgaard camp and naked and I just feel I couldn't abandon her...the Roche pre-Act 3 cutscene gives more choice.
I just never felt like I got to know him, but Roche and I were together for a lot of the game and interactions with other charactes (eg. Dethmold) didn't take away from Roche. However the vast time with Philippa and Saskia seemed to detract from the time Iorveth had, especially when he disappears for most of act 2 to get more elves.
Dandelion also did NOTHING in Iorveth's path. I can't remember seeing him once...as opposed to a pretty big role in Roche's path. I just liked the conspiracy and the character's involvement with it a lot.
Regarding Zoltan, I'm glad he's happier in Act 2, but I feel we get the same amount of him anyway - we take him across the mist, meet up together in the siege, and he helps me get the stuff needed to lift the curse - I think both paths are good to Zoltan, but Iorveth's path severely limits Dandelion and Iorveth in the plot which is sad.
I'll agree that one of the biggest weaknesses of Iorveth's path and of the game in general is that there is no Socia'Tael character like Ves. Someone you get to talk to, know and befriend.endtherapture said:
Also Roche's involvement in the conspiracy is only relevant at the very end, throughout Act 2, we don't get to talk to him that much either.
Well that's because unlike Roche, Iorveth is a leader who doesn't have time to sit around and chat with you, he's too busy preparing for the battle and thanks to that, Vergen wins.
They are very different characters and they have different roles. I agree that you get closer to Roche and you befriend him more than Iorveth. Roche is the bromance of the game. Iorveth is different, he's much more pro-active and more of a leader than Roche. Of course it's perfectly fine to like one more than the other.
As for Act 3, he actually tries to free Philippa without your help. But like Roche, if you go with saving Triss, you won't get to see either of them much.
You didn't do the Succubus quest?
Ironically, I liked Dandelion on Iorveth's path much more just thanks to that quest.
I don't know if I agree with you. Roche's involvement in the conspiracy only happens at the end of the chapter; up until then he basically says "no comment" when you ask him for input or help. Yes, you can interact with the Blue Stripes, but that's no different than the interactions with Iorveth's Scoia'tael, meaning you can listen to some random banter.endtherapture said:
Well, then that's more your fault than the game design's, judging by the choices you made. The interactions you can have with Iorveth are of pretty much equal magnitude with those with Roche - if you didn't go to speak to them of your own accord, during the chapter, then you wouldn't see much from them. You have "forced" interactions with both - Iorveth during the Stennis debacle, and Roche when returning from the mist and trying to find Triss - but other than that, they hang out in their respective areas, waiting for you to come talk to them. The amount of dialogue the two have with Geralt, is pretty much the same.endtherapture said:
Both Dandelion and Zoltan are a lot more involved in Vergen, than in the Kaedweni camp. The interactions you have between the dwarves, Dandelion, and Geralt, are pretty much as "bro" as you can have it in the game. Dandelion is also directly involved in the quest with the succubus, to the extent that you sort of get to play as him for a while, and Zoltan joins Sheldon and Yarpen, aiding Geralt with clearing out the mines under Vergen. Inter-party conversations abound!endtherapture said:
I don't agree with that.Kindo said:
It may not sound as much, but fist fighting with the blue stripes was a moment of bonding for me. Also, we had Ves. And of course the awesome hang over quest from Act 1.
The Socia'Tael had nothing. I didn't care about them and they didn't care about Geralt either. The only Socia'tael you got to interact with are Eleyas and bounty hunters who want to kill you.
Other than that, I agree with everything you said.
Alright, I was focusing mainly on Act 2, and it slipped my mind that some might consider fist-fighting to be some sort of bonding - even if it's not coupled with any substantial dialogue. The interactions in Act 1 are of a different nature, of course, and I'm not disputing that you get a closer relationship to the Blue Stripes than the Scoia'tael, but the arguments I read regarding the interactions in Act 2 just didn't fly for me.KnightofPhoenix said:
Iorveth's path made me care about the Dwarves. It did nothing to make me care for Iorveth or the Elves.
Act 2 had Ves though. The Scoia'Tael have no character like Ves.Kindo said:
Iroveth's Act 2 was all about bromancing the dwarves, but the Scoia'tael got nothing in the entire game.
Iorveth all the way. I actually just went on a rant about this on my blog today. Basically, while trying to ignore the fact that I know now how everything turns out, it comes down to the moment you have to decide. Sure, Roche helped spring you from prison, and he gets props for that, but then, in that moment with Letho and you have Iorveth wanting you to hand him his sword, my gut instinct is to give it to him, to not do that just feels wrong to me, because it's Roche that fucked things up there. While it's true it wasn't the Blue Stripes that began shooting, it was town guards he had brought along, the fact remains that If he hadn't followed me, if he had trusted me to get things done, the plan probably would have worked. I realize you can still side with either one after that point, no matter what you do, but that sword toss feels like a commitment to me, and Roche lost some of my trust by secretly following me, while Iorveth had gained some.
Beyond that, maybe Roche's goal after that may sound more weighty, but I like siding with underdogs, and the save I've been importing at the beginning sided with the Scoia'tael in the first game, so I think my Geralt would sympathize with them.
As for knowing ahead of time how things turn out, I think Iorveth's path has the best ending, and the best location for the second act.
But also, as a character, I just love Iorveth, I think he's awesome. I hope he's in the third game Roche too, but especially Iorveth.
Beyond that, maybe Roche's goal after that may sound more weighty, but I like siding with underdogs, and the save I've been importing at the beginning sided with the Scoia'tael in the first game, so I think my Geralt would sympathize with them.
As for knowing ahead of time how things turn out, I think Iorveth's path has the best ending, and the best location for the second act.
But also, as a character, I just love Iorveth, I think he's awesome. I hope he's in the third game
Roche too, but especially Iorveth.Personally I prefer Iorveth's path, because it's also the path that is best for Dandelion (has a genuine role to play in Vergen), Zoltan (united with his dwarven bros), and Saskia (freeing her from the mind control ensures her status as Queen of Upper Aedirn, a free state for humans and nonhumans alike). And Iorveth really comes around by the end of Chapter 3.
Ioverth is simply the best, but vernon isn't bad either.
Vernon Roche is always selfish he only cares about his principles and doesn't give a fk about others the only reason he freed geralt is because he agreed to help him in finding the king slayers. Remember if isn't for the moronic roche we would have captured letho in the elven baths itself sure letho is strong but even he can't fight The archers ,ioverth and of course geralt himself all alone. While ioverth on the other hand may seem like a terrorist but his character greatly changes due course of the game the dialogs with dandlion and zoltan in chapter 2 makes this a fact.
My vote strongly goes to iorveth.
Vernon Roche is always selfish he only cares about his principles and doesn't give a fk about others the only reason he freed geralt is because he agreed to help him in finding the king slayers. Remember if isn't for the moronic roche we would have captured letho in the elven baths itself sure letho is strong but even he can't fight The archers ,ioverth and of course geralt himself all alone. While ioverth on the other hand may seem like a terrorist but his character greatly changes due course of the game the dialogs with dandlion and zoltan in chapter 2 makes this a fact.
My vote strongly goes to iorveth.
When Roche and his men suddenly appeared during the chat with Letho and started killing Ioverth's men, I was taken by suprise and considered giving Ioverth his sword. I felt a bit guilty about betraying Ioverth, but not as guilty as I would have felt had I betrayed Roche. Roche had helped Geralt escape from the dungeon and had so far been a trustworhy ally and an all around 'bro.'
In the end I chose Roche because I thought Geralt owed him more loyalty.
In the end I chose Roche because I thought Geralt owed him more loyalty.
First time I played the game at a friend's I chose Roche's path because Devs has made it look as if this path is the natural choice a player would/should follow, although, for some reason, it felt unnatural to me - and till the very end of that play-through I kept saying to myself I should have chosen Ioverth instead.MM360 said:
I haven't read the books, so I have no knowledge whatsoever as to Gerald's character from the writer's perspective, but when I bought the game and started replaying I chose Ioverth. Gerald's and Ioverth's lines while talking with Philippa, a "Lord of the Rings" connotation, was a sign (to me, anyway) there is more understanding between the two men - a rather amusing point of the game.
Of course, Roche is a great character, and his path, when compared to that of Ioverth's, has more content and info on the political issues tearing the kingdoms apart - I wish Devs had split the content equally between the two. However, in both play-throughs I had chosen to give Ioverth his sword, for it felt completely unfair and bitchy to deny him his right to defend himself. Besides, Roche shouldn't be there in a first place.
In short, it's Ioverth for me.
As for my Gerald's motives... I wanted to get to Letho as soon as possible, Triss was not my true objective. I didn't like her in Witcher I, anyway - too "bossy" and manipulative, in her own way, for my taste. She is a great help for Gerald, true, but she still keeps secrets from him while she, as a Sorceress, is in a position to know even things Gerald might not want to share with her.
Last but not least, Gerald wouldn't have been caught in this hellish mess, if it wasn't for Triss and her position in King Foltest's court.
Man, a lot of people favour Roche. Well, it's time for me to explain why I chose Iorveth, for some balance in the thread. Roche Broche is fucking awesome, let's get that straight right away. But so is Iorveth Kudos to CDPR who managed to create two dynamic, well developed and extremely engaging characters, giving me, least to say, a headache when I had to chose which path to take. Since there's been a lot of posts regarding Roche and why people chose him, I'll skip my personal reasons since most of you sum up why I would've chosen him, if Iorveth didn't exist ^^ Well anyway, here we go.
When you were holding Iorveth "prisoner" and the options to either give him a sword or punch him, I immediately gave him his sword. I was aware that my mission was to clear my name and although Roche could help, I felt like who better to aid me in my search then the man who was just betrayed by Letho. Iorveth had spent the previous 3 months helping Letho, getting to know his plans, his moves, his way of thinking. This is quite clearly the man to go to when you have such an obvious target to go after!
On top of that, I realized in Witcher 1 that the world was bigger than just the Witcher. There's a whole world out there that you can't stay out of, you're part of it. The Witcher's code of neutrality be damned, I wanted to get involved the second I met Yaevinn. And I agreed with his methods. Where most people see terrorists, I see freedom fighters. Why can the state use violence against non-humans to subjugate them but non-humans can't use violence to protect themselves? That's such bullshit. When oppression becomes law, resistance becomes duty.
I want everyone to be equal, if humans would have been the ones oppressed and non-humans the oppressors, then I would have sided with the humans, obviously. My Geralt isn't above the world, nor is he hiding from it. He embraces all the problems and realizes that he's part of it, and he is in a position to change it. For the better... or worse. And let's not start with the philosophical aspects of "equal". I am aware that elves, humans and dwarves are nowhere near equal in life span, intelligence, nature, mindsets etc. but let's leave that conversation for another time. For now, I want all to have equal opportunity to be happy.
I sympathize with the non-humans. I sympathize with the Scoia'tael. Imagine being driven from your lands, hunted and being hated for who you are, what you are. I don't know that much about the lore, but doesn't most elves remember the time the humans arrived and drove them out of their lands. Imagine that. Remembering the pain like it was yesterday. For humans it was several generations ago. But for elves it was a moment ago. Everyone else is basically a means to my own end. Letho wasn't after to destroying Geralts life, I never really saw him as an enemy. As Letho himself said: "It's your own fault for playing soldier, boy". Yeah, exactly. My problem of finding a man who, let's be honest, didn't do anything wrong towards me personally, seems terribly quaint compared to the struggles that the non-humans have had to endure, or even Letho who was more of a friend than you'd imagine. I put things in perspective and reflect a lot. And going with Roche would be pissing on all the non-humans. I would be a selfish prick, thinking only about my own problems, ignoring everyone else around me.
No.
I refuse to be an ego. To be nothing better than trash on the street. My Witcher Geralt of Rivia is above that. I am a Knight. I am a Samurai. I defend the defenceless and speak for the speechless. When given the opportunity to, not only clear my own name, but also help people that desperately need help, then I'm sorry Roche, there's stuff bigger than the both of us. And honestly, I don't regret a single decision through my first and canon playthrough. Well I do regret lying to Foltest about the assassin being a Witcher. I'm a guy who hates lying in real life, so I don't lie in video games either. You can imagine my surprise when I was knighted by the Lady of the Lake and she said I should never lie. I felt at home. I never lied a single time in Witcher 1 ^^ Other than that, I don't regret anything.
My Geralt not only sympathized with Iorveth and his cause, but I found a friend in someone that believed in something more than just themselves. I believe in honor, justice and integrity. We were both pursuing an ideal. That's why I chose to spare Stennis. Even though I didn't have conclusive evidence, my instincts were screaming that this guy was guilty. But I chose to spare him, saying that what kind of example would we establish if we would just allow the mob and majority to decide what is right or wrong. I set an example and through that followed an ideal I set for myself since the very beginning.
In the end, I gained a friend and cleared my name. I chose to save Saskia and free her from her spell. Giving the non-humans, and humans too, a chance to live in a country where they would all be respected, regardless of race. Hopefully the non-humans from Flotsam decide to migrate to Upper Aedirn, since I chose not to kill Loredo (I couldn't let those women die, fuck that).
So yeah. That's basically it. Shit. This became a huge bloody post Well, here's a tl;dr
Can't be selfish. Thought about others struggle in the lore and world. Want to help more people than just myself. Iorveth seemed like the best choice. It was.
Me and Iorveth in Loc Muinne. I'm wearing a mixture of Kingslayer and Oathbreaker armor, with Vran Sword and a Silver sword you found just outside the city (EDIT: It's called Deithwen. And it's glorious!). Bros being bros!
Kudos to CDPR who managed to create two dynamic, well developed and extremely engaging characters, giving me, least to say, a headache when I had to chose which path to take. Since there's been a lot of posts regarding Roche and why people chose him, I'll skip my personal reasons since most of you sum up why I would've chosen him, if Iorveth didn't exist ^^ Well anyway, here we go.When you were holding Iorveth "prisoner" and the options to either give him a sword or punch him, I immediately gave him his sword. I was aware that my mission was to clear my name and although Roche could help, I felt like who better to aid me in my search then the man who was just betrayed by Letho. Iorveth had spent the previous 3 months helping Letho, getting to know his plans, his moves, his way of thinking. This is quite clearly the man to go to when you have such an obvious target to go after!
On top of that, I realized in Witcher 1 that the world was bigger than just the Witcher. There's a whole world out there that you can't stay out of, you're part of it. The Witcher's code of neutrality be damned, I wanted to get involved the second I met Yaevinn. And I agreed with his methods. Where most people see terrorists, I see freedom fighters. Why can the state use violence against non-humans to subjugate them but non-humans can't use violence to protect themselves? That's such bullshit. When oppression becomes law, resistance becomes duty.
I want everyone to be equal, if humans would have been the ones oppressed and non-humans the oppressors, then I would have sided with the humans, obviously. My Geralt isn't above the world, nor is he hiding from it. He embraces all the problems and realizes that he's part of it, and he is in a position to change it. For the better... or worse. And let's not start with the philosophical aspects of "equal". I am aware that elves, humans and dwarves are nowhere near equal in life span, intelligence, nature, mindsets etc. but let's leave that conversation for another time. For now, I want all to have equal opportunity to be happy.
I sympathize with the non-humans. I sympathize with the Scoia'tael. Imagine being driven from your lands, hunted and being hated for who you are, what you are. I don't know that much about the lore, but doesn't most elves remember the time the humans arrived and drove them out of their lands. Imagine that. Remembering the pain like it was yesterday. For humans it was several generations ago. But for elves it was a moment ago. Everyone else is basically a means to my own end. Letho wasn't after to destroying Geralts life, I never really saw him as an enemy. As Letho himself said: "It's your own fault for playing soldier, boy". Yeah, exactly. My problem of finding a man who, let's be honest, didn't do anything wrong towards me personally, seems terribly quaint compared to the struggles that the non-humans have had to endure, or even Letho who was more of a friend than you'd imagine. I put things in perspective and reflect a lot. And going with Roche would be pissing on all the non-humans. I would be a selfish prick, thinking only about my own problems, ignoring everyone else around me.
No.
I refuse to be an ego. To be nothing better than trash on the street. My Witcher Geralt of Rivia is above that. I am a Knight. I am a Samurai. I defend the defenceless and speak for the speechless. When given the opportunity to, not only clear my own name, but also help people that desperately need help, then I'm sorry Roche, there's stuff bigger than the both of us. And honestly, I don't regret a single decision through my first and canon playthrough. Well I do regret lying to Foltest about the assassin being a Witcher. I'm a guy who hates lying in real life, so I don't lie in video games either. You can imagine my surprise when I was knighted by the Lady of the Lake and she said I should never lie. I felt at home. I never lied a single time in Witcher 1 ^^ Other than that, I don't regret anything.
My Geralt not only sympathized with Iorveth and his cause, but I found a friend in someone that believed in something more than just themselves. I believe in honor, justice and integrity. We were both pursuing an ideal. That's why I chose to spare Stennis. Even though I didn't have conclusive evidence, my instincts were screaming that this guy was guilty. But I chose to spare him, saying that what kind of example would we establish if we would just allow the mob and majority to decide what is right or wrong. I set an example and through that followed an ideal I set for myself since the very beginning.
In the end, I gained a friend and cleared my name. I chose to save Saskia and free her from her spell. Giving the non-humans, and humans too, a chance to live in a country where they would all be respected, regardless of race. Hopefully the non-humans from Flotsam decide to migrate to Upper Aedirn, since I chose not to kill Loredo (I couldn't let those women die, fuck that).
So yeah. That's basically it. Shit. This became a huge bloody post
Well, here's a tl;drCan't be selfish. Thought about others struggle in the lore and world. Want to help more people than just myself. Iorveth seemed like the best choice. It was.
Me and Iorveth in Loc Muinne. I'm wearing a mixture of Kingslayer and Oathbreaker armor, with Vran Sword and a Silver sword you found just outside the city (EDIT: It's called Deithwen. And it's glorious!). Bros being bros!
Iorveth because Triss. No further explanation necessary.
(sorry for dragging this back out, guys)
(sorry for dragging this back out, guys)
I went with Roche because, well Foltest(may the ground lie lightly upon him) was awesome and I wanted payback. Glad I did with Temeria in chaos, I guess it was nostalgia, but I didn't want to see it torn apart. Also Iorveth, as others have said does get cooler later and I do sympathise with him and nonhumans.
But BROche is BROche, and the way that man handles falling down bridges is legendary.
But BROche is BROche, and the way that man handles falling down bridges is legendary.