IP used to improve Stats?

[blank_redge]

IP used to improve Stats?

Topic. Obviously, this would be for physical skills, like going to the track every day (Movement Allowance) or hitting the gym and getting yoked up (Body Type.) Maybe (MAYBE) going on a monastic retreat for a while, and channeling your inner 'Punk, and all that (Empathy.)

Didn't see any rules in the main book, suggesting IP can be used to buff Stats, unless I missed it...

 

[guidokpd]

We allow IP to be used to increase stats up to 10. Stats have an IP modifier of 3. In my next game for every stat point above 6 the characters will have to spend an hour a week doing something to maintain the stat. For IQ they will have to do some sort of intelligence exercise.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yes. We rarely see this in play, as PCs are generally too busy to hit the gym, but there have been extended contracts with corps that allowed for training time.

Conveniently, stats and skills follow the same range, so you can use the rules and apply IP mutlipliers to taste - x2 or x3 typically.

 

[wisdom000]

I would tell you where you could find suitable rules, but people complain i talk about it too much...

 

[Sardukhar]

NOT here:

http://datafortress2020.oliwy.net/

No. Not there at all. Anywhere.

Also not including a great Night City map, with combat zone supplement. A vehicle/life on the road supplement. An adaptation for Masamune Shirow's Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell so you can play out those stories using Cyberpunk 2020.

Not including so much it hurts.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

We used to allow stat points to be 'moved' over time. Basically, you could swap stat points around on a 1 for 1 basis over extended periods of in-game time.

Other than that, implants and gene therapy.

 

[Don_Carnage]

I never allowed IP to raise stats, just skills. (Fitness and Bodybuilding skill in IU does raise stats, though).
If they want stats they needed to cyber up or get some body-sculpting done.

 

[Nomad_Xenon]

I prefer to manage stat rise only with cyber. To me it seems more in accordance with the setting and the society of the dark future. Why spend your time and effort in a gym if you could just get cybered-up and obtain better results in less time, hey, it would only cost you a few euro and your humanity!

 

[Sardukhar]

Well, part of the reason why has to do with two things: min maxed characters and stat+ skill totals.

In other words, people are reluctant to spend points in a stat that's not as important as Int or Ref, since with good reason, those stat points could save their characters lives. Unlike, say, Attr or MA.

Now, if you tell them they can raise them later as their characters grow into their challenges, they become much more likely to make a well-rounded, amusing character who can change and grow in their adventures.

Flip side - you can also lose stat points, remember?

Swapping points around is a nice compromise, I like that one.

But I'd still allow people to become more perceptive and quick on the uptake, (Int), better runners, (MA) or improve their base hand to eye coordination, ( REF) with practice and experience.

IP multipliers are no small cost, guys. Perhaps those of you who've played have forgotten just how -long- it takes to raise a value from 6 to 7 at even double IP cost. That's 120 Improvement points! That's a lot! In comparison, you could raise 3 skills from 4 to 5 in the same time. And some skills in the Martial Arts skills have x 4 multipliers!

 

[chombatta]

If characters spend time training, I'd let them improve their physical stats. If they stop training, they will drop down to normal gradually during twenty weeks. How long time it will take to get the stats up would depent on their athletics skill, possible personal trainer, and of course, drugs with nasty side effects (that's cyberpunk).

I don't let them improve cool, but experience will reduce the difficulty in specific situations they have rolled a number of successes earlier (mostly different types of cool rolls during firefights).

 

[crosswire]

A lack of an option to raise stats always bugged me. The 'stats' I had as a 16 year old are far different than those I have now. Not only have my physical stats improved (though exercise, healthy eating and the like), but so have other stats. I used to be majorly introverted, not really getting or relating to people at all well (ie empathy). I am much better at it nowadays, and that is through training myself to be that way.

I allow stat increases in the games I run, but at a x3 multiplier. Which makes it a slow and expensive process.

 

[blank_redge]

Nice. I also like the line of reasoning. =)

 

[kyberpunkki]

Not a bad idea there!

 

[Suhiira]

We allow IP to be used to increase stats up to 10. Stats have an IP modifier of 3. In my next game for every stat point above 6 the characters will have to spend an hour a week doing something to maintain the stat. For IQ they will have to do some sort of intelligence exercise.

I've been running the same RPG for over 20 years (not Cyberpunk) and I took this a step further.
The system uses percentage based skills (with a max of 100+Skill Base) and I make the character devote 1 minute per day per point between 76-85, 2 per between 86-95, 3 per 96-105, 4 per 106-115, and 5 per over 116. So if their skill was 100 that'd be 45 min a day. I leave it up to them to create a weekly schedule that meets that minimum.
This means you can't max every skill simply because there isn't enough time in the day to do so.
My players seem to accept/like that as an explanation of why they can't be great at everything.

 

[Sardukhar]

I've been running the same RPG for over 20 years (not Cyberpunk) and I took this a step further.
The system uses percentage based skills (with a max of 100+Skill Base) and I make the character devote 1 minute per day per point between 76-85, 2 per between 86-95, 3 per 96-105, 4 per 106-115, and 5 per over 116. So if their skill was 100 that'd be 45 min a day. I leave it up to them to create a weekly schedule that meets that minimum.

Jesus, Sue, ( Can I call you Sue? Great). That's some hefty book-keeping.

Lessee....100+ Skill base, running for 20 years. 1993 or so. Hmm. HMM. Rolemaster? Traveller? Call of Cthulhu?

 

[guidokpd]

I've been running the same RPG for over 20 years (not Cyberpunk) and I took this a step further.
The system uses percentage based skills (with a max of 100+Skill Base) and I make the character devote 1 minute per day per point between 76-85, 2 per between 86-95, 3 per 96-105, 4 per 106-115, and 5 per over 116. So if their skill was 100 that'd be 45 min a day. I leave it up to them to create a weekly schedule that meets that minimum.
This means you can't max every skill simply because there isn't enough time in the day to do so.
My players seem to accept/like that as an explanation of why they can't be great at everything.

Very nice!

Keeping them from maxing every skill is one of my goals. Every game one of the players trys to put 10 in combat sense. Doesn't care that his other package skills suffer and that makes him a legendary solo without the skills to match. These days I just put a hard limit on starting skills. My character has been doing skill maintenance. One of the other players asked how much IP I get for doing that and without asking the GM I said none. It is just to maintain my skills. Laying the foundation for future games.

Another is to try and get the players to think of the characters as real people.

 

[Suhiira]

Jesus, Sue, ( Can I call you Sue? Great). That's some hefty book-keeping.

Lessee....100+ Skill base, running for 20 years. 1993 or so. Hmm. HMM. Rolemaster? Traveller? Call of Cthulhu?

Actually a modified version of HarnMaster.
And the bookkeeping isn't all that bad since my custom character sheets have all the appropriate spaces to fill on them.
Needless to say most folks leave most of their skills at 75 (when and if they get that high) and only have 10 or so they have to
track.

Another is to try and get the players to think of the characters as real people.

That's exactly what I shoot for.

 

[Sardukhar]

Actually a modified version of HarnMaster.
And the bookkeeping isn't all that bad since my custom character sheets have all the appropriate spaces to fill on them.
Needless to say most folks leave most of their skills at 75 (when and if they get that high) and only have 10 or so they have to
track.

Yeah, I agonized over something similar for skills in SLA Industries. You want it to be accurate-ish, in terms of representing the difficulties of raising stats, but tempting, only not onerous in a book keeping sense.

CRPGs make some things easier. Still not as good as PnP, though.

 

[Suhiira]

CRPGs make some things easier. Still not as good as PnP, though.

It's still gonna be a long time before computers can interact with people the way real people can.

I find the HarnMaster (with a few tweaks) to be a very nice system.
It "rewards" the classic D&D Banzai tactics appropriately as it's every bit as lethal as Cyberpunk.
Most folks choose NOT to wear platemail as they want some battlefield mobility.
And while anyone can pick up and more-or-less use any weapon people tend to pick one (or sword and board) and actually get good at it.

 

[Sardukhar]

It "rewards" the classic D&D Banzai tactics appropriately as it's every bit as lethal as Cyberpunk.
Most folks choose NOT to wear platemail as they want some battlefield mobility.
And while anyone can pick up and more-or-less use any weapon people tend to pick one (or sword and board) and actually get good at it.

Nice, nice. I've never played it. So you can die from a knife stab from a newbie, even at advanced levels, fairly reasonably? Do they have blood loss, death saves, etc?

I guess stat improvement is pretty irrelevant if they are just used as a base for skills. How do you find that contrasts with CP2020's same stats as base for many skills? Do HarnMaster players still have a wide variety of things they are so so at?