Iris' Greatest Fear (Plot Spoilers)

[Aarwyn]

Iris' Greatest Fear (Plot Spoilers)

Theres already an Iris' Greatest Fear thread, but it's mainly about the boss fight. I wanted to address some things I was a bit confused about in my first playthrough of HoS.

Okay, so - what exactly IS Iris' Greatest Fear? I get that it's Olgierd in the boss fight. But, what exactly is it? Is it the thought of him leaving her? (hence the note) or the memory of him?

Apologies if I'm not making any sense or thinking to deeply into this.

:cheers4:
Cheers in advance.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Perhaps that his various deeds transformed him into a fragmented, distorted, inhuman monster, and alienated him from her? Or she feared the fiendish manifestation of his aggression, and his capacity for destruction? The symbolism, if we choose to ascribe any, is rather open to interpretation.

 

[Krull32]

I thought this Ghosts represent his Character, and was split up in different enemies. One statue for every of his bad character traits .

 

[Aarwyn]

Perhaps that his various deeds transformed him into a fragmented, distorted, inhuman monster, and alienated him from her? Or she feared the fiendish manifestation of his aggression, and his capacity for destruction? The symbolism, if we choose to ascribe any, is rather open to interpretation.

Ah, so it is open to interpretation. I really thought I was just missing something horribly obvious, or thinking to deeply into it.

I agree that it must have something to do with the amount of horrible deeds he committed, along with his dabbling in black magic. Or perhaps that that was her vision of him inside of her head after witnessing his change into a distorted version of himself over the years, hence "The Olgierd that I once loved is no more"

 

[Triss.Hasengold]

Iris is dead but cannot go into Nirvana because Gaunter O´dimm doesn`t let her soul go. He likes to torment her, and therefore he made an own personal hell or prison for her soul (a small distorted version of her old house and she cannot leave this place).
Iris is afraid of spiders, so the house shows giant spiders and makes the beautyful garden unusable to punish her.
Olgierd is an adventuresome man who maybe had a boring marriage and therefore I am sure he often went out to look for some fights, bar brawls and risky adventures. Iris was always in fear of her husband dying, and therefore the house shows Olgierd coming back to her as a creepy living dead corpse zombie.

The garden is haunted by spiders, inside the house is Olgierd - but a hellish nemesis of him - creeping around as undead zombie, she hates the Pedell and don`t want him as servant and she is to angry and frightened to talk to this black creatures (talking Cat and Dog) - a perfect hell O´dimm made for her.

 

[Aarwyn]

Iris is dead but cannot go into Nirvana because Gaunter O´dimm doesn`t let her soul go. He likes to torment her, and therefore he made an own personal hell or prison for her soul (a small distorted version of her old house and she cannot leave this place).
Iris is afraid of spiders, so the house shows giant spiders and makes the beautyful garden unusable to punish her.
Olgierd is an adventuresome man who maybe had a boring marriage and therefore I am sure he often went out to look for some fights, bar brawls and risky adventures. Iris was always in fear of her husband dying, and therefore the house shows Olgierd coming back to her as a creepy living dead corpse zombie.

The garden is haunted by spiders, inside the house is Olgierd - but a hellish nemesis of him - creeping around as undead zombie, she hates the Pedell and don`t want him as servant and she is to angry and frightened to talk to this black creatures (talking Cat and Dog) - a perfect hell O´dimm made for her.

Is any of this proven in game? Or just your theory?
I'm curious to know as it seems a lot of thought was put into it.
:smiling:

 

[Riven-Twain]

It isn't quite clear -- to me, at least, that is -- whether the painted prison Iris' ghost inhabits is of her own fashioning, Olgierd's, or O'Dimm's. From what we're shown in the game, it appears a combination of Iris' regrets and fears that bind her soul to the world, and perhaps also the dark magics into which Olgierd delved. Thus, while O'Dimm may be indirectly responsible -- as the granter of those magic powers -- it seems to me he wasn't the one who deliberately shackled her spirit to the estate. That may have been her own doing. Other interpretations seem possible, though.

 

[Triss.Hasengold]

Is any of this proven in game? Or just your theory?
I'm curious to know as it seems a lot of thought was put into it.

In the Hearts of Stone "Scenes of a Marriage" quest Iris says she is afraid of spiders and because there is no vacuum cleaner Olgied always must take out the spiders and throw them into the garden otherwise Iris cannot sleep.
So her personal hell is showing her some truly gigantic spiders right in front of her houses main entrance and they render the complete paradise-like garden useless for her.

The other things are in this quest too, in the back-flashes of some marriage scenes one can notice that Olgierd is getting more and more bored in his marriage, never really likes to spent some time with his fiancè but "has always some more important stuff to do", he is also full of hate and don`t even want getting his debts paid, and that`s my personal interpretation - after the pact with Gaunter O´dimm Olgierd lost all of the last emotions and therefore the last feelings he had for Iris and started to do always more and more risky things while slowly going crazy and Iris always feared that he might die some day dispite of his immortality.
So Iris always feared of losing Olgierd some day, and her own fears showed her the Olgierd zombies.

From what we're shown in the game, it appears a combination of Iris' regrets and fears that bind her soul to the world, and perhaps also the dark magics into which Olgierd delved.

Yes indeed because she always says that it`s just this red rose which has become purple on some spots and the fear of dying that binds her to "this world" and when the rose is gone or destroyed or whatever, she will completely die / or vanish.
Olgierd`s wish was immortality for Iris and himself, but Iris was still able to die because of an heart attack and afterwards her ghost is able to die too just by getting rid of this rose. She is living her own hell because of her own will, but it might be Gaunter O´dimm who caged her soul into this little hell.
On the other hand Olgierd can do as much damage as he wants to his body and he will never die because of his complete immortality (remember the beheading scene at the first meeting with Olgierd.....).
So it`s somehow Iris own wish to still be here....

 

[whitewoof]

I interpreted the Painted World as a side effect of Olgierd's wish to have both him and Iris live 'like there's no tomorrow'. While this wish does imply immortality in some sort, I don't think it specified in what way, whether in soul/mind or body. I always found it weird how if Olgierd wished 'immortality' on them both, how he wasn't able to die but Iris could. So my guess is that while Olgierd was immortal in the physical sense, she somehow became immortal in the spiritual sense. Or maybe she forced herself to die due to all the sadness she was going through, but it went so far as to only kill her physical body, while her spirit remained, unable to go to Witcher afterlife. So like @rivenll said, I to believe the Painted World to be some sort of limbo made from the manifestations of Iris' fragmented memories. As for the topic at hand, I interpreted Iris' Greatest Fear as a manifestation of all her thoughts about what kind of monster Olgierd had evolved to, which split into several separate Olgierds like
1. Slightly Bad Olgierd
2. Heartless Mischievous Olgierd
3. Evil Heartless Murderous Cheating Satanic Worshiping Olgierd and so on

This is supported by the fact that if you take down the Olgierds one by one, you'll realize as you go they get harder and harder with the last Olgierd being the hardest. So based on my theory, the Last Olgierd would be Iris' darkest most evilest version of him.

 

[Aarwyn]

I interpreted the Painted World as a side effect of Olgierd's wish to have both him and Iris live 'like there's no tomorrow'. While this wish does imply immortality in some sort, I don't think it specified in what way, whether in soul/mind or body. I always found it weird how if Olgierd wished 'immortality' on them both, how he wasn't able to die but Iris could. So my guess is that while Olgierd was immortal in the physical sense, she somehow became immortal in the spiritual sense. Or maybe she forced herself to die due to all the sadness she was going through, but it went so far as to only kill her physical body, while her spirit remained, unable to go to Witcher afterlife. So like @rivenll said, I to believe the Painted World to be some sort of limbo made from the manifestations of Iris' fragmented memories. As for the topic at hand, I interpreted Iris' Greatest Fear as a manifestation of all her thoughts about what kind of monster Olgierd had evolved to, which split into several separate Olgierds like
1. Slightly Bad Olgierd
2. Heartless Mischievous Olgierd
3. Evil Heartless Murderous Cheating Satanic Worshiping Olgierd and so on

This is supported by the fact that if you take down the Olgierds one by one, you'll realize as you go they get harder and harder with the last Olgierd being the hardest. So based on my theory, the Last Olgierd would be Iris' darkest most evilest version of him.

I think there is something that wasn't explained properly or perhaps left as a mystery on purpose - it's never actually explained how Iris died. When asked, the cat and dog say that her heart just "burst".. and when Geralt asks if it was a heart attack, they say no. So, how is it that someones heart just spontaenously decides to burst? They say it burst of loneliness... but thats not actually possible. So her death remains a mystery.

 

[Riven-Twain]

They say it burst of loneliness... but thats not actually possible. So her death remains a mystery.

Well . . . to be absolutely realistic, none of the events in this story are entirely possible, however, that's the beauty of Fantasy: It allows us to indulge in the improbable, and the impossible, and add a touch of poetry to the reality of life. To die of loneliness, unrequited love, and grief is a trope in older romance, and love-stories. While an exploded heart, resulting from solitude, mayn't be an exact, medically accurate, cause of death, the symbolic emphasis falls upon Iris' misery and sorrow. She died of a 'broken heart'. The poetic suggestion that a heart can be so filled with grief and longing that it bursts asunder is a quite moving sentiment.

(Incidentally, sudden, severe mental stress, such as the loss of a loved one, can trigger a chemical process in the body, which can seriously weaken of the heart muscles -- stress cardiomyopathy. While the cause of this condition differs from a that typical heart attack, it can lead to heart failure. So, technically, yes, this sort of death is possible, if improbable, in this case.)

 

[whitewoof]

Originally Posted by Aarwyn
They say it burst of loneliness... but thats not actually possible. So her death remains a mystery.
Well . . . to be absolutely realistic, none of the events in this story are entirely possible, however, that's the beauty of Fantasy: It allows us to indulge in the improbable, and the impossible, and add a touch of poetry to the reality of life. To die of loneliness, unrequited love, and grief is a trope in older romance, and love-stories. While an exploded heart, resulting from solitude, mayn't be an exact, medically accurate, cause of death, the symbolic emphasis falls upon Iris' misery and sorrow. She died of a 'broken heart'. The poetic suggestion that a heart can be so filled with grief and longing that it bursts asunder is a quite moving sentiment.

(Incidentally, sudden, severe mental stress, such as the loss of a loved one, can trigger a chemical process in the body, which can seriously weaken of the heart muscles -- stress cardiomyopathy. While the cause of this condition differs from a that typical heart attack, it can lead to heart failure. So, technically, yes, this sort of death is possible, if improbable, in this case.)

Among others, Padme' Amidala, like Iris, 'lost the will to live' and just died after Anakin Skywalker decided to become the biggest douchebag in the galaxy. So I'd say this 'dying from a broken heart' thing to be a quite common theme in contemporary literature

 

[Triss.Hasengold]

Incidentally, sudden, severe mental stress, such as the loss of a loved one, can trigger a chemical process in the body, which can seriously weaken of the heart muscles -- stress cardiomyopathy. While the cause of this condition differs from a that typical heart attack, it can lead to heart failure. So, technically, yes, this sort of death is possible, if improbable, in this case.

Hmmmm interesting! Thank you very much for this info!
I first thought her death resulted in stopping eating and stopping caring for herself after her loss and beginning parasuicidal behaviors (drinking, smoking, drugs, risky things to provoke death.) But now her death symptoms are medical accurate even it may take a while (weeks?) to weaken the heart muscles.

Aaaw I love these dramas and bad endings so much (well at least not in real life *gg), it`s so different to the "everything is always fine and everything has a good ending" hollywood clichè always visible in every soap, movie, whereever. That`s why Titanic was such a wonderful movie - it was sad.

 

[Mushashi7]

Theres already an Iris' Greatest Fear thread, but it's mainly about the boss fight. I wanted to address some things I was a bit confused about in my first playthrough of HoS.

Okay, so - what exactly IS Iris' Greatest Fear? I get that it's Olgierd in the boss fight. But, what exactly is it? Is it the thought of him leaving her? (hence the note) or the memory of him?

Apologies if I'm not making any sense or thinking to deeply into this.

:cheers4:
Cheers in advance.

I think Iris gave the answer in the game. She was very focused on the vow she and Olgierd made: Always to be be honest and never keep anything hidden from each other.

Iris' fear was a destroyed and split Olgierd who kept things hidden. The basis for their love vanished.

I think is is quite simple. Some may call it plain, but none the less.

 

[Treamayne]

It may also be worth noting, that in the Marriage Contract Memory, Olgierd <cursed> Iris by saying "You shall never leave this house."

I say <cursed> because I don't think he meant it that way, but since he was already neck deep in Black Arts, it probably happened that way when he said that.