Iris

[Aaden]

Iris

Heavy "Scenes of a Marriage" spoilers ahead.

Regarding the last parts of the quest:

Spoiler

What are the implications of not taking the rose?

I expected things to go in a direction where, after I restored Olgierd's heart - which I hoped I would be able to - I could somehow reunite them. Probably by Olgierd giving up because he lost everything and choosing to join Iris. But none of that happened.

So, do you think Olgierd having the painting is somehow a comfort to her? Can she observe the outside world from within - maybe only on an emotional level? Does she feel reunited with him?
What difference does it make to Olgierd to get a painting of her instead of the rose? Is he glad to have her with him? Does he consider it cruel because he intended to have her released? I'm not sure what to make of his reaction after I give it to him.

Or did Geralt really just damn her to an eternal existence of grief because he was hesitant to end her existence and potentially unleash the demons? Would taking the rose have been the merciful choice? Or is there something more to it, which I might have missed?

 

[DarkTail]

Olgierd is suggested that somehow he is some sort of prince with royal blood.
So the Iris becomes the princess.Then the fairytales goes in the wrong,deep dark way.
Both of them made themselves immotal.One cannot die in flesh and one lives in her dream
like the dark version of 'Alice in Wonderland'.That's what I thought.

 

[Aaden]

What you explain is the initial situation. I get that. Although, pointing out that Olgierd's body is immortal and Iris' mind or emotional self is immortal is indeed interesting. I never looked at it that way and separating the two that way is a whole new perspective on O'Dim's devious plan. I just assumed Olgierd alienating Iris was just a consequence of his heart turning to stone and the circumstances of Iris' death led to her becoming a ghost - but actually Olgierd wished for them both to be immortal and they did get that, but in different ways.

What I'm interested in, though, is what happens later when Geralt does not take the rose from Iris and the consequences thereof - various aspects of which I pointed out above.

P.S.: Olgierd is not royalty. His family is noble and (initially) quite wealthy, but it's not royalty. After his family was impoverished Iris' parents wanted to marry her to a Ofieri prince instead - that's where royalty comes in. That just as a side note.

 

[OptoNick]

Can she observe the outside world from within - maybe only on an emotional level? Does she feel reunited with him?

I'm not sure if that would be possible outside the epicenter of her grief while contract was still active, but it definitely shouldn't work after ending. Not only Olgierd's immortality must have gone, but her as well - Painted World gotta vanish.

Though we saw her echo in real world, it could remains and still haunts this place, unconsciously. I'm wondering about status of demons in that case.

BTW, her last words are about how she wish just to gaze at Olgierd once again, but implied that she couldn't do it anyway in that conscious form

 

[BlackVulcan]

Where does it state or imply that Olgierd has the painting? because I believe the painting stays in the real world right? in the courtyard?

Actually, what I wished would've happened was if you save Olgierd and let Iris live, he would travel back to his home and enter the painted world. Then he and Iris can be happy together again, with the painting changing to show the two of them, happy together again.

It would have been a great way to show his redemption, much like Faust and Gretchen in heaven at the end of Faust. Sadly, this wasn't the case and I'm just really really hopeful CDP notices and adds this in at some point, or someone mods it in (simple change to the painting if you let Iris live and save Olgierd). I really love the storyline, but the current ending is just far too depressing

 

[Aaden]

Where does it state or imply that Olgierd has the painting? because I believe the painting stays in the real world right? in the courtyard?

Actually, what I wished would've happened was if you save Olgierd and let Iris live, he would travel back to his home and enter the painted world. Then he and Iris can be happy together again, with the painting changing to show the two of them, happy together again.

That ending is kinda what I hoped for, too.

It's not only implied, but if you let Iris live, Geralt explicitly gives Olgierd the painting of Iris with the rose in her hand instead of the actual rose.

 

[Guest 2812644]

Found a hair brush (quest item) out side in the back left sitting area of the garden. I took the rose from her and have finished HOS and still have no idea what quest it was for. ???

 

[Aaden]

Found a hair brush (quest item) out side in the back left sitting area of the garden. I took the rose from her and have finished HOS and still have no idea what quest it was for. ???

It's one of the items you can put on her grave during the funeral: Either the brush, her sketchbook or the painting of her and Olgierd. Don't know yet if the choice of item changes anything, though.

 

[Guest 2812644]

Makes sense. It probably has an effect on how she talks with you later on.

 

[BlackVulcan]

That ending is kinda what I hoped for, too.

It's not only implied, but if you let Iris live, Geralt explicitly gives Olgierd the painting of Iris with the rose in her hand instead of the actual rose.

Edit: nevermind, made a mistake. I mixed a lot of stuff up. I have to play through it again

 

[Tyrandex]

yea there is no winning with this quest if you take the rose she dies and the demons cat and dog go free, if you leave her with the rose, she goes to sleep in sadness D: i mean even the idea of freeing her to me is terrible, she seems so sad and afraid, very different from your everyday wraith, and if you think about how Geralt is, its hard to decide, Geralt is of the idea of leaving the creatures that dont hurt people live in peace, and then... at the same time to live in eternal sadness or to die and to fall into the emptiness jess... i dont know!!!!:cirisad:

 

[LadyStoneheart]

I had no problem releasing her spirit; isn't that what Geralt's meant to do? He doesn't seem particularly religious but he does understand tormented spirits, and Iris is plenty tormented. His lack of faith means he couldn't tell her something better waited for her, but even transitioning to "nothingness" has to be better than constant sorrow. And she needs to be properly buried, not left rotting on a bed.

 

[Bfler.383]

Where's the problem? If you take the rose, you free her maltreated, sad soul and also the two gentle demons (good end) and if you don't take, it you condemn her to an existence in sorrow and the demons are still the servant slaves (bad end).
It's more or less similar to Annabelle in the "Towerful of mice" quest. Either you release her spirit, if you pursuade Graham to meet her in the tower (good end) or she becomes a plaque, if you bring her bones to Graham (bad end).

 

[Aaden]

gentle demons

Riiiiiiight. And the Dark Side just has a terrible PR department. :geraltaha:

I think Demons are by definition Evil Spirits, so no gentleness to be expected there, only deceit.

 

[Pug.]

Just finished the expansion and wanted to chime in with some thoughts:

i. I like BlackVulcan's suggestion for a possible ending, i.e. after Geralt restores Olgierd's heart, and if he chooses not to take the rose, Olgierd would travel back to his home, enter the painted world, and he and Iris could live happily ever after. The problem that I see with this relates to what DarkTail said earlier in this thread. It's pretty clear that, when the Man of Glass granted the couple immortality, he made Oldierd's body impervious to death and Iris' mind. Now that the pact is concluded, the Man of Glass is defeated, and Olgierd's mortality is restored once more (as is evidenced by Olgierd cutting his hand when he gives Geralt his sword), wouldn't it stand to reason that Iris would lose her immortality as well? That is, her consciousness or spirit would no longer live on in the painting. And since she has already experienced a physical death, I don't really see what's left to her, even if you don't take the rose.

ii. I saw taking the rose to be the lesser of two evils, particularly if you empathize with Iris' character. She's clearly in a tormented state, and the life that she has isn't really a life at all. Who would want to spend eternity ruminating on a failed relationship? At least if you take the rose, she has a chance to be at peace. I might reconsider if it were possible for Olgierd to be reunited with her in this painted dream world, but since that doesn't appear to be an option ...

As for releasing the two lesser demons, well, it is what it is. Geralt can't really predict what they will do when they are free. They will probably be up to no good, but I don't think Iris should be made to suffer for eternity just so that these demons remain imprisoned, demons which, incidentally, she had absolutely no role in bringing into this world.

 

[Aaden]

ii. I saw taking the rose to be the lesser of two evils, particularly if you empathize with Iris' character. She's clearly in a tormented state, and the life that she has isn't really a life at all. Who would want to spend eternity ruminating on a failed relationship? At least if you take the rose, she has a chance to be at peace. I might reconsider if it were possible for Olgierd to be reunited with her in this painted dream world, but since that doesn't appear to be an option ...

That brings me to another aspect of this decision (as is the case with many decisions): "A priori" and "a posteriori" knowledge. Knowing that I couldn't reunite the two might change my mind about this. But at the moment the decision has to be made, Geralt cannot know this. So, from an "a priori" point of view the whole situation looks more like a gamble: Definite end of her existence + two demons unleashed vs Chance of redemption (and possible effects on Olgierd's behaviour later on) and risk of prolonged torment.

Interesting point with her immortality being gone as well, by the way. Maybe she actually ceases to exist, the moment we defeat Gaunter O'Dim, which would render this decision meaningless except for Olgierd being glad to see her face again. Or maybe her spirit is bound to the painting in some other way and she continues to suffer.

 

[Auralius]

yea there is no winning with this quest if you take the rose she dies and the demons cat and dog go free, if you leave her with the rose, she goes to sleep in sadness D: i mean even the idea of freeing her to me is terrible, she seems so sad and afraid, very different from your everyday wraith, and if you think about how Geralt is, its hard to decide, Geralt is of the idea of leaving the creatures that dont hurt people live in peace, and then... at the same time to live in eternal sadness or to die and to fall into the emptiness jess... i dont know!!!!:cirisad:

Spoiler

It's weird because, previously, it was expressly true that you could not kill a wraith; you either temporarily destroyed its physical form or "sent it on its way" implying that the being went on to the afterlife. Geralt has systematically either stood as an atheist or agnostic, in spite of seeing evidence to the contrary, but that didn't change the implication that there was likely something more. Likewise, based on O'Dimms words, the human soul persists and can be drawn into different realities and, based on some of the literature you can read in HoS, it is philosophically sound that a Great Good must exist if Evil Incarnate can. Likewise, it bears to reason that some force must limit and set the rules that this Evil Incarnate must operate by and that there must be alternate places for the soul to persist than within torment. So I personally doubt that Iris is simply "gone" and would love to see the CDPR guys point to the polar opposite of beings like O'Dimm. My personal suspicion is that the distinctly human desires and emotions that held Iris back may have dissolved away, releasing her to a more pure state. It would be nice for this dark and sinister world of The Witcher to have a little Light in it for once; something Holy to disrupt all the evil.

 

[LegioXII]

i actually took the rose and let them go because i felt sorry for them too

i think calling o'dimm evil incarnate is a bit much too, he would end world hunger or cure cancer if you gave him your soul, the problem is that it needs to be worded correctly. I see o'dimm as more of an enabler of human cruelty though. i doubt he would find our realm interesting at all if he couldnt get souls out of it.

 

[Toyen]

Is it just me or was Iris.....so completely empty. I mean, like really empty and dull. There was no depth to her character even when she was shown alive in the flashbacks.

Her voice was so lifeless. There was no music in her scenes.

And I took the rose. I did not go through so much trouble just to return empty handed.

Also I wonder, she wanted divorce but he locked her up with 2 pets and the caretaker whom she commanded apparently? Why couldnt she leave the manor?

I did not know what to make of Olgierd but after this quest, I really did not like his character either.

I mean yeah, his wife was a bit of a spoiled brat obviously (seriously, her man is tired after a long day and she demands him to sit for a portrait....) but that is no reason to not take a gift from her rich parents and then he kills her father?!

And then not let her divorce him but still abandon her? And her being so stupid waiting for him?

I just finished this quest and I am so sticking with Sir Mirror.

Juts like Baron and Anna. Dont like him, dont like her and they both deserve each other.

 

[Pug.]

Is it just me or was Iris.....so completely empty. I mean, like really empty and dull. There was no depth to her character even when she was shown alive in the flashbacks.

I thought her character was extremely likeable and empathetic. Definitely the most tragic story in the entire game for me.

Her voice was so lifeless. There was no music in her scenes.

I disagree, but it's worth bearing in mind that all of the flash back scenes take place after Olgierd has already made his pact with the Man of Glass. They've been through a lot together as a couple: his family's estate was seized by the auction house, Iris' parents broke off their engagement, and it's only just now that their fortunes have recovered and Iris was able to marry Olgierd. I thought Iris' voice actress did an excellent job of conveying emotion, especially when Olgierd locked himself away in his room and refused to tell her what was really going on.

Also I wonder, she wanted divorce but he locked her up with 2 pets and the caretaker whom she commanded apparently? Why couldnt she leave the manor?

The Caretaker's sole task was to protect her from intruders and care for the estate, while the "pets" were meant to provide company. I believe that her "command" of these creatures extended only that far. Also, when Iris requested a divorce, Olgierd basically cursed her to remain forever on the estate. Remember his line, "You'll find that an agreement once made is not so easily broken"? He basically turned the Von Everec estate into her prison.

I did not know what to make of Olgierd but after this quest, I really did not like his character either.

That's understandable. I don't think you were meant to like him. The guy is charming in his own way, and I can see why Iris might have been attracted to him, but he's a bastard. Even if you excuse the fact that most of his actions were committed under the influence of Gaunter O'Dimm's "Heart of Stone," he still agreed to the death of his brother as part of their pact.

I mean yeah, his wife was a bit of a spoiled brat obviously (seriously, her man is tired after a long day and she demands him to sit for a portrait....) but that is no reason to not take a gift from her rich parents and then he kills her father?!

I think his actions towards her parents were born out of a sense of frustration. Like I said above, all of the flashback scenes take place after Olgierd has already struck his bargain with the Man of Glass. He sacrificed the life of his brother to gain eternal life and riches for he and Iris, he realizes that his heart is slowly turning into stone and that Gaunter O'Dimm is stripping him of all emotion, and yet Iris' parents still do not approve of him because of his past history as a ruffian. It also appears that, despite the fact that he asked Gaunter O'Dimm for riches, they were only enough to buy back the Von Everec estate and pay off a portion of his debts, because Iris' parents still have to step in and help out. I imagine that Olgierd found that to be terribly frustrating after all he had sacrificed. I'm not excusing the guy - like I said, he's a real bastard - just trying to provide an explanation for his behavior. I'll leave your Iris comment alone, since I really liked her character.

And then not let her divorce him but still abandon her? And her being so stupid waiting for him?

Again, you're misconstruing what actually took place. Iris did not choose to stay at the estate. She was forced to. When Iris requested a divorce from Olgierd, he responded by killing her father, tearing up the divorce papers, and then imprisoning her within that house for all time. Olgierd stayed with her for a while, but when he came to the conclusion that his presence was only causing her more pain, he left and her heart ruptured shortly thereafter from grief. Her mind or spirit lived on in the mansion as part of Gaunter O'Dimm's twisted "gift" of immortality.

I just finished this quest and I am so sticking with Sir Mirror.

Gaunter O'Dimm is pretty clearly the embodiment of evil within the witcher universe. We can argue all day about whether he cheats people with his contracts or they just fail to word them properly, but when it comes down to it, he is a malicious entity whose primary goal is to ensnare people and gain possession of their souls. Remind you of anyone? Also, the scene where he drives a spoon into a man's skull for interrupting him didn't exactly endear me to him. But whatever. To each their own I suppose.