Iron-Judgment Expansion pre-order : My thoughts and advice to CDPR

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rrc

Forum veteran
After 1200+ hours of being a proud f2p player, having spent only my valuable time and not a single penny on Gwent, I thought it was time I support the game I love the most and bought the Novigrad pre-order expansion pack which offered the premium kegs (which cost $40 I think). I thought that is it, that is the max I can afford for Gwent. But whenever I see Jason, I involuntarily think that "I should do more for Gwent monetarily just for him and his passion over the game". So, when IronJudgment was officially announced, I thought I should buy the pre-order pack. The fact is, I don't need to. I have enough resource to buy 120+ kegs and I am at prestige 5 which would give me the same amount of usable premium cards which I am going to get from the pack.

But when I saw the price and the options, I was shocked. There was only one option and it costed a whooping %50 (which is huge for me). But since I already determined to buy it, I had bought it, but I am not very happy with that. If an another expansion hits within 6 months and if the option is like this, I am 100% sure I wont be able to buy it, even if I want to support the game. It is too much for common people.

Then I was thinking why CDPR could have done this? I could think of one reason. In Novigrad Expansion, two options were given, one cheaper, one costlier. It made people sad and angry. Some people who wanted to buy the costlier one liked the cheaper one's cardback and vice versa. May be people didn't buy it even though they wanted to due to this conflicting interest and possibility.

@SlamaTwoFlags, CDPR, if that is the reason you guys gave only one option, there is a HUGE logical issue with the decision. It definitely would hurt CDPR monetarily and it makes me sad that this expansion is not going to make enough money in pre-order than it deserves. Your decision to have only one card-back, only one skin and only one board is perfect. But putting it all together and putting a huge price tag is a big mistake. I am 100% sure (well.. almost sure.. well.. I believe) that if there were multiple options with different component of this pack bundled for different price, you would have got much much more sales than whatever you have got.

If you consider 25 premium kegs should be $25 and the Skin should be $10 dollars and the Cardback should be $10 and the board should be $7, you could have (or should have) given two or three options. For example, Kegs+Radovid+Cardback for $40; Radovid+Cardback for $20; Radovid+Cardback+Board for $25 along with the whole package. Something like that. I understand that, even with that options, some people will say "I want X and Z and there is no pack. CDPR is greedy." and we can't do anything about that. At least you guys should have given a lower priced options for people who can't afford $50, but love you guys to spend $20-25 for the expansion.

I wish the best for Gwent and CDPR. I sincerely wish that you meet the expected sales on this expansion pre-order packs. Next time, please be considerate about all bands of players and give multiple options from the same set of components. I am 100% sure (well.. I believe) that it will fetch Gwent more revenue. Just to prove that I am not simply whining, but sincerely giving my advice..

Screenshot 2019-09-17 at 11.50.12 PM.png
 
I dont know how profitable the game is, but it is far from perfect, and may require additional resources to rework existing cards. However I wont support CDPR due to the sole reason of them hosting a tournament (Challenger) with the 100k prizepool. I believe it is irresponsible, as the 100k invested in the game itself would have much higher impact on attracting new players or beta-players that abandonned this game.

Get the core elements right, expand the player base, and then, just maybe then, host a tournament to attract a margin of 1% of a player base, that are all about competition, at a cost of less than 1% of annual profits.
 
@rrc As stated, they are going to offer the components later. The $50 US is for the incentive of having it first, which is just how every video game on the market works. Wait 3 months and get the same items for less.

@Alexander_Volgin umm, this is how trading card games work. You get a ton of buzz when someone wins real money for playing, not to mention all the viewers who watch them win. This is how many games make money, and e-sports are no exception. 100k is probably less money than any programmer on their staff makes a year anyway.
 
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some preorder package with non premium kegs would be nice for new gamers, as their 1st priority is just to get the cards
 
I agree with rrc, I would prefer an option to buy just the kegs, without the board, cardback and skin bundled together.

In the previous expansion they offered 40 premium kegs about a month or so after launch, not sure if it will be available this time.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
I dont know how profitable the game is, but it is far from perfect, and may require additional resources to rework existing cards. However I wont support CDPR due to the sole reason of them hosting a tournament (Challenger) with the 100k prizepool. I believe it is irresponsible, as the 100k invested in the game itself would have much higher impact on attracting new players or beta-players that abandonned this game.

Get the core elements right, expand the player base, and then, just maybe then, host a tournament to attract a margin of 1% of a player base, that are all about competition, at a cost of less than 1% of annual profits.
While the balancing and polishing the game is a constant necessity, it should by no way mean that CDPR shouldn't spend money on elsewhere. By your logic, CDPR shouldn't spend money on marketing too? I consider the tournament to be great for the community. The lack of tournaments created a big riff among the pro players and was very bad for the game. In fact, CDPR should conduct regular tournaments which will boost the morale of pro players and excite normal players.

@rrc As stated, they are going to offer the components later. The $50 US is for the incentive of having it first, which is just how every video game on the market works. Wait 3 months and get the same items for less.
I know that all the components (slightly modified version) will be available individually in the shop. It will allow players to buy only the components they are interested in. That is all good. But my worry is, this would have an impact on the pre-order sales. People may not like the modified version and those who would have bought may not buy. If those options were given now, it would have definitely boosted the revenue for Gwent. That is all my concern is.
 
While the balancing and polishing the game is a constant necessity, it should by no way mean that CDPR shouldn't spend money on elsewhere. By your logic, CDPR shouldn't spend money on marketing too? I consider the tournament to be great for the community. The lack of tournaments created a big riff among the pro players and was very bad for the game. In fact, CDPR should conduct regular tournaments which will boost the morale of pro players and excite normal players.


I know that all the components (slightly modified version) will be available individually in the shop. It will allow players to buy only the components they are interested in. That is all good. But my worry is, this would have an impact on the pre-order sales. People may not like the modified version and those who would have bought may not buy. If those options were given now, it would have definitely boosted the revenue for Gwent. That is all my concern is.

If you put it that way, there is only one thing to learn from the decline of 'Artifact card game'. The game had all the elements you desired. Great marketing campaign which boosted the player base to 60k playing at any time during the lauch of the game and proposed tournament with a prize pool of 1 million. The game failed because it was bad, so you can burn all the money on the promotion you like, and the product would still be bad. Thus my proposal is, make the game, or game elements (like speed Gwent) more enjoyable for the masses, and then, maybe then, host a tournament.
Tournaments excites ? Well, I can tell you any other thing that excite the players, maybe streamers, and youtube content creators, that present something unusual and fun. But the content creators need more stuff to work with, in order to present something new. Which puts me to the original conclusion, that the money is more wisely invested in the game itself, to make it stand out in a good way from the rest (balanced, and more playable cards and decks).
 
But Gwent is not bad, and the tournaments coupled with expansion and IOS release is exciting , even to an Android using console player, such as myself. CDPR actively listens to its community and makes changes to the game within a month, sometimes within a week which is by far the best customer service in the CCG field.

That said, You have to keep the people at the top happy and making money. Pro players and tournaments pull in new players through buzz on the Net, and those new players spend money to catch up with the existing base. Gwent's main problem is they don't have enough lower level tournaments to fill the void between majors...meanwhile, Magic has 19 Challenger equivalent or higher PREMIER tournaments scheduled between now and the end of 2019 and God knows how many local tournaments for casual players on the books.

Copying Magic to become a successful card game is a winning strategy, so tournaments is the way to go. Use your exising base to supplement your prize pool and stay profitable enough to justify the content you are releasing and hopefully add staff if necessary and keep the 4.5 year experiment going.
 
If you put it that way, there is only one thing to learn from the decline of 'Artifact card game'. The game had all the elements you desired. Great marketing campaign which boosted the player base to 60k playing at any time during the lauch of the game and proposed tournament with a prize pool of 1 million. The game failed because it was bad, so you can burn all the money on the promotion you like, and the product would still be bad. Thus my proposal is, make the game, or game elements (like speed Gwent) more enjoyable for the masses, and then, maybe then, host a tournament.
Tournaments excites ? Well, I can tell you any other thing that excite the players, maybe streamers, and youtube content creators, that present something unusual and fun. But the content creators need more stuff to work with, in order to present something new. Which puts me to the original conclusion, that the money is more wisely invested in the game itself, to make it stand out in a good way from the rest (balanced, and more playable cards and decks).

You say you won't support them simply because they hosted a tournament, yet on the other hand you say they need to invest solely in the game ...

Can have both, and tournaments are the best way to help sell the game and keep it relevant. And the fact we are still getting monthly patches and faction reworks and now an expansion shows that what you say doesn't have much merit. They are investing in the game, heavily.
 
You say you won't support them simply because they hosted a tournament, yet on the other hand you say they need to invest solely in the game ...

Can have both, and tournaments are the best way to help sell the game and keep it relevant. And the fact we are still getting monthly patches and faction reworks and now an expansion shows that what you say doesn't have much merit. They are investing in the game, heavily.

I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that it is the best way to promote this game and keep it relevant. With the launch of homecoming the player base just droped, despite CDPR having hosted tournaments before. In the end it comes down to the end product. And I dont think that we are there quite yet, that would justify extravagant promotion campaign. Let me ask you in a way that you would understand. If you sell garbage, for how long can you fool customers to purchasing it? You can fool people just once.

Also calling the game garbage is an exaggeration, but just to paint a clear picture of the argument.

And thats exactly the point, since they apparently have enough money laying around, why should I support them. To host more tournaments ? Get real.
 
I'm sorry, but where did you get the idea that it is the best way to promote this game and keep it relevant. With the launch of homecoming the player base just droped, despite CDPR having hosted tournaments before. In the end it comes down to the end product. And I dont think that we are there quite yet, that would justify extravagant promotion campaign. Let me ask you in a way that you would understand. If you sell garbage, for how long can you fool customers to purchasing it? You can fool people just once.

Also calling the game garbage is an exaggeration, but just to paint a clear picture of the argument.

And thats exactly the point, since they apparently have enough money laying around, why should I support them. To host more tournaments ? Get real.

Then why are you here? They are hosting tournaments and investing in the game as well. Where do you think they get the money for that? Trees?

I just don't understand the argument that they shouldn't be having tournaments and that they shouldn't be supported because of it.

The real problem I think is that too many people want everything fixed straight away and they don't think anything else should be done until then. The tournament was cool and I'm glad they had it, a new expansion coming along with another patch. The game is going up and getting better and better as far as I'm concerned and that wouldn't be happening if people didn't support it, period.
 
Then why are you here? They are hosting tournaments and investing in the game as well. Where do you think they get the money for that? Trees?

I just don't understand the argument that they shouldn't be having tournaments and that they shouldn't be supported because of it.

The real problem I think is that too many people want everything fixed straight away and they don't think anything else should be done until then. The tournament was cool and I'm glad they had it, a new expansion coming along with another patch. The game is going up and getting better and better as far as I'm concerned and that wouldn't be happening if people didn't support it, period.

Why I am here ? Why are you here, as the questions makes as much sense as the answer given.

If you want to support the tournaments feel free to do so. I dont think that tournament 'promotion camaign' is financially sound, given that the current product, the game itself, is far from perfect, despite all the changes and reworks. Hence doing anything in between is actually a foolish strategy, as it doesent retain the player base. CDPR still have to prioritize the game-play elements.

Some people just watch steamers/tournaments/youtube content creators and what not, instead of playing this game. They dont play because they dont like it. And that's the main selling point, a game that you only watch but not play, doesent generate any revenue, which is why hosting the tournaments wont make CDPR that money back in any way. So why hould I support this waste of resources ?
 
Why I am here ? Why are you here, as the questions makes as much sense as the answer given.

If you want to support the tournaments feel free to do so. I dont think that tournament 'promotion camaign' is financially sound, given that the current product, the game itself, is far from perfect, despite all the changes and reworks. Hence doing anything in between is actually a foolish strategy, as it doesent retain the player base. CDPR still have to prioritize the game-play elements.

Some people just watch steamers/tournaments/youtube content creators and what not, instead of playing this game. They dont play because they dont like it. And that's the main selling point, a game that you only watch but not play, doesent generate any revenue, which is why hosting the tournaments wont make CDPR that money back in any way. So why hould I support this waste of resources ?

Because its clearly not a waste of resources. Otherwise the patches and content wouldn't keep coming.

Some people do only watch the streamers etc, but clearly most play the game and watch them, hence the prevalence of net decks.

I'm just saying its a weird argument to not support the game because they have tournaments while there are issues that need to be addressed because by that logic no game creators should ever be allowed to host a tournament ever, because there will always be issues. if it was an absolutely terrible game that didn't offer solid content then I would understand.

The game isn't perfect true, but no game is or ever will be, but its no where near as bad as what people in the forums make it out to be either.
 
Because its clearly not a waste of resources. Otherwise the patches and content wouldn't keep coming.

Some people do only watch the streamers etc, but clearly most play the game and watch them, hence the prevalence of net decks.

I'm just saying its a weird argument to not support the game because they have tournaments while there are issues that need to be addressed because by that logic no game creators should ever be allowed to host a tournament ever, because there will always be issues. if it was an absolutely terrible game that didn't offer solid content then I would understand.

The game isn't perfect true, but no game is or ever will be, but its no where near as bad as what people in the forums make it out to be either.

Personally, I did spent around 160€ on this game in the past. I spent the money because I wanted it to be invested in improving this game. It is what I wish to support, and not the tournaments or other promotion campaign which (in my believe) in the current stage of Gwent doesent retain or increase the player base.
 
I would love it if you could choose between the options, for example:
-premium kegs (10 for 15€)
-normal kegs (15 for 15€)
-radovid skin (15€)
-premium card back (8€)
-gamebord (8€)
-normal cardback (5€)

and then just add them to the cart and gain a 5% discount per item added. (up to lets say 15%).

so if i want 30 normal kegs, + normal cardback + gameboard i would be paying
15€+15€+8€+5€ = 43€ -15%
so i would pay 36,55€ for my pre-order package.

if you want radovid + both cardbacks + gameboard, that would make
15€+8€+8€+5€=36€-15%.
for all the cosmetics 30,6€ would be a reasonable pre-order price i think.

And then when preorder is over, just add them all to the store for full value without the preorder 5%/item bonus.

*edit: it would be a bit more expensive then it is atm, but you would have the freedom to choose, which i value highly.
 
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[...]
I dont think that tournament 'promotion camaign' is financially sound, given that the current product, the game itself, is far from perfect, despite all the changes and reworks. Hence doing anything in between is actually a foolish strategy, as it doesent retain the player base. CDPR still have to prioritize the game-play elements.
[...]
Did you even take a minute to consider that other card games are "far from perfect" as well and even more so ?
They actually take their time to rebalance, instead of just allowing awful formats to continue and then just banning a couple of cards, ripping entire decks apart (and the invested resources into the used cards).
Not to mention that those games are afterwards not "perfect" examples for balancing either.

[...]
Some people just watch steamers/tournaments/youtube content creators and what not, instead of playing this game. They dont play because they dont like it. And that's the main selling point, a game that you only watch but not play, doesent generate any revenue, which is why hosting the tournaments wont make CDPR that money back in any way. So why hould I support this waste of resources ?
Because there are also a lot of players sticking to the game because of watching streamers ?
There was a period in which I only watched Swim and then played more again.
They are practically free advertisement.
Beyond that, card games without any tournament scene just dissappear, while not intending to play in one the mere option is an incentive to continue playing.
If the highest level of a game comes down to random matches, without any higher level like tournaments, the game will feel practically dead.
 
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