Is a Cyberpunk sandbox possible?

[ralfetas]

Can't speak for anyone else but Rockstar's games bore me out of my mind. They're a chore to play, the stories aren't emotionally engaging, the characters are unrelatable assholes and the combat is just dull. Last Rockstar game I liked was San Andreas and I think that's mostly nostalgia, if I went back to it today I'd probably hate it too.

Probably yes, i think GTA is the type of game you stop playing little by little, until one day you see you don´t open the game in months and you uninstall.

But i think is important to mention Rockstar as a reference, i think we should look for the best, Rockstar knows how to make vivid open worlds, Bethesda with all the errors, knows how to make a good RPG/Sandbox and embrace the community to make the game last longer, Bioware knows how to tell a dynamic history, Kogima knows how to make stealth, CDPR knows how to make a captivating history, where you play because you want to see how it all ends, and so on...

 

[GHOSTMD]

It feels like a sandbox to me.

an empty one, no fun stuff to do.

You see that awesome city, but outside the "missions" there is nothing to do.
That is exactly why CP77 suffers so much from the missing stuff.

 

[griffonwing]

Id like to see a Requiem-type mod. This will allow you to run any type of character you want, without being subjected to the Relic, and constant Silverhand.

Perhaps, once your street cred gets high enough, your Fixer hooks you up with Jackie for the Heist. However, the relic coldcase doesn't fail. Jackie survives. This opens him up as possible companion, or maybe even a romance option. You can take the Relic to Judy who can implant the Relic into a BD Wreath. Using the wreath, you can then start the Silverhand questline, but without your imminent death.

 

[llubtoille]

Would rather like a "live another life" kind of mod. Do the gigs, side-quests and stuff without the main story events getting in the way.
Kinda wish the game as it currently is was a bit more limiting tbh. Open the map section by section instead of all at once after the heist.

 

[heskyttberg]

Can't speak for anyone else but Rockstar's games bore me out of my mind. They're a chore to play, the stories aren't emotionally engaging, the characters are unrelatable assholes and the combat is just dull. Last Rockstar game I liked was San Andreas and I think that's mostly nostalgia, if I went back to it today I'd probably hate it too.

And the gigs in this game aren't boring and has even less emotional engagement then any GTA game or any other open world game even.
The only character I felt some relation to is killed of in the "INTRO" of the game.
The fixers are so bland and has zero personality except for old asian woman.

I said it before for this game to become alive and engaging they need to add the small things that is missing all over the place that would have made this game great.

Best example I know of is Mass Effect 2 if you import ME 1 save.

With all the billboards and news cast, why is there not constant news after the heist and people in the street talking about what happened.

Also the short small things that exists in Fallout, ME series, Skyrim a couple or brothers or whatever arguing over something and you help them solve the issue by talking and later maybe there is conversation somewhere that someone helped them fix it.

Consequences where "YOUR" actions have obvious and serious impact one the game/world like killing off crew in ME or not getting crew.

Also as someone previously said why 99% of doors are locked, instead of more like Fallout almost all doors open but some places just has some containers and maybe a terminal with info.

Come to think of it for the modern technical game this is supposed to be where is hack able terminals to get info like FO games but it could have been made better and more modern computer hacking instead of just some arbitrary remote hacking and shards that are just boring modern file and folder.

In short what this game is lacking to be immersive:
Characters to relate to: Characters to do jobs with like the heist but more of them and you can choose who you want to go with.

Consequences: There is no real consequences of your actions, no matter what you do you end up in same place there is no way to save jackie. Saving Takemura dosen't really count since it is so hidden and doesn't really do much.

Small things: Random conversations, News reports of your actions ( Like if you eliminate all of the old cowboy gang, saving news reporter, heist and so on.

More stores, More clothes to wear, be different and let us upgrade anything to legendary so we can wear whatever we want and yeah lower the upgrading costs because they get stupid high very quickly and as immersion goes breaks it completely having to wait to pickup until your high level enough to make the item usable.

Upgrading iconic weapon should make it our current level and not downgrade it to the level when we picked it up, such a stupid mechanic and people talking about immersion that is very much breaking it yet again.

 

[flippimonkey]

I wasn't talking about quests that are labeled vs not labeled. I was talking about the tons of story and lore in these "pointless" quests. Some of which develop other situations and characters we meet elsewhere. People call these pointless quests, because they go in and just do the objective, without looking for the story/lore behind the objective.

Yes, there are plenty of people who don't read the quests or lore. I don't see how that can be attributed to complaints about "pointless quests". They were pointless as most present "choices" that have no affect on the world, story, or its occupants.

The over abundance of icons on the map is a factor. I have read and heard plenty of complaints about how it kills the desire going into the game to explore. Once I found that out it had an affect on me. I bummed out because I wanted to uncover the world of CP2077.

The "Boring" quests complaint is due to repetition, lack of consequence, or over simplification. It has no point if the player's choices have no affect on the world or story. Hence why I think people are disappointed in the game as that was a huge selling point being presented by CDPR. People wanted a sandbox to play in and create their own story.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Yes, there are plenty of people who don't read the quests or lore. I don't see how that can be attributed to complaints about "pointless quests". They were pointless as most present "choices" that have no affect on the world, story, or its occupants.

The over abundance of icons on the map is a factor. I have read and heard plenty of complaints about how it kills the desire going into the game to explore. Once I found that out it had an affect on me. I bummed out because I wanted to uncover the world of CP2077.

The "Boring" quests complaint is due to repetition, lack of consequence, or over simplification. It has no point if the player's choices have no affect on the world or story. Hence why I think people are disappointed in the game as that was a huge selling point being presented by CDPR. People wanted a sandbox to play in and create their own story.

hmm, how to put this...

it depends what you consider exploration to be. And what you expect to get out of it.
exploration, I wouldn't say isnt about changing the world, but rather finding out things, seeing things uncovering.

but some people can be bored with exploration, these quests aren't for them. These quests are completely optional and uneeded. They are for people who want to explore the world of night city. The level of Main story/sidestory scales to level, and main story gives you large amounts of exp.

So what are gigs for? primarily they are for exploration. They each tell stories of the area you are in, whats happening in those areas, whats happening in the world outside of V. And, even though most of them are labeled, they still require exploration to really find the real story. Some also actually effect the world in real time, but they usually won't tell you how, you usually only see the effects by exploring other things, some of which are not labeled. Many of these stories interlock, once you start recognizing names, you start to see the bigger picture.

However, thats not what everyone is into, so its optional. But, no they really aren't pointless. The big mistake I think is that we as players are trained to do whatever is around, and when you aren't actually in the mood to do a quest, it seems pointless. Also, they don't link us to the connected plotlines in gigs, So people may have no idea, oh these are a group of underground hackers. Or this is the aim of the Russian fixer we saw in konpeki tower and why he is here. This why the Animals attacked these people in this assault mission, etc.

So interestingly, the reason many people find these stories boring, is because they don't label them for you, they don't tell you which are connected, they leave it up to the player to explore, rather than packaging them for the player. And yeah some of them aren't that connected.

 

[Kieran_Grosvenor]

All they need to do is eexpand on the point of no retturn, so its no longer a point of no return... and add more activities to do

 

[flippimonkey]

hmm, how to put this...

it depends what you consider exploration to be. And what you expect to get out of it.
exploration, I wouldn't say isnt about changing the world, but rather finding out things, seeing things uncovering.

but some people can be bored with exploration, these quests aren't for them. These quests are completely optional and uneeded. They are for people who want to explore the world of night city. The level of Main story/sidestory scales to level, and main story gives you large amounts of exp.

So what are gigs for? primarily they are for exploration. They each tell stories of the area you are in, whats happening in those areas, whats happening in the world outside of V. And, even though most of them are labeled, they still require exploration to really find the real story. Some also actually effect the world in real time, but they usually won't tell you how, you usually only see the effects by exploring other things, some of which are not labeled. Many of these stories interlock, once you start recognizing names, you start to see the bigger picture.

However, thats not what everyone is into, so its optional. But, no they really aren't pointless. The big mistake I think is that we as players are trained to do whatever is around, and when you aren't actually in the mood to do a quest, it seems pointless. Also, they don't link us to the connected plotlines in gigs, So people may have no idea, oh these are a group of underground hackers. Or this is the aim of the Russian fixer we saw in konpeki tower and why he is here. This why the Animals attacked these people in this assault mission, etc.

So interestingly, the reason many people find these stories boring, is because they don't label them for you, they don't tell you which are connected, they leave it up to the player to explore, rather than packaging them for the player. And yeah some of them aren't that connected.

I don't think that is the reasoning behind players saying quests are boring or pointless, and I think I made that point in my previous post. If you have some stats or numbers showing that I would appreciate it. Unfortunately the consensus is overwhelming in line with my previous reply. I think the "boring" cuz the game doesn't label it or read it to the player isn't a factor.

Exploration is exploration so there is no personal considerations taken as to what I think or feel it means.

There are some good things in CP2077, but not enough to make it more than just an average entry into the genre.

Finally, blaming or point fingers at the player is just completely wrong. What is up with defending multi-billion dollar corps when they clearly failed at their job. We are the customers. CDPR did not produce the game they advertised and it wasn't even close to stable at launch or even now 2 months later. Starting to think people making these statements are either CDPR agents...

If they truly have any pride in their work, they will correct course and pull through. Or go out of business. No biggie either way.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I don't think that is the reasoning behind players saying quests are boring or pointless, and I think I made that point in my previous post. If you have some stats or numbers showing that I would appreciate it. Unfortunately the consensus is overwhelming in line with my previous reply. I think the "boring" cuz the game doesn't label it or read it to the player isn't a factor.

Exploration is exploration so there is no personal considerations taken as to what I think or feel it means.

There are some good things in CP2077, but not enough to make it more than just an average entry into the genre.

Finally, blaming or point fingers at the player is just completely wrong. What is up with defending multi-billion dollar corps when they clearly failed at their job. We are the customers. CDPR did not produce the game they advertised and it wasn't even close to stable at launch or even now 2 months later. Starting to think people making these statements are either CDPR agents...

If they truly have any pride in their work, they will correct course and pull through. Or go out of business. No biggie either way.

exploration, to me is going into an area, searching every room, finding extra computers with extra files and figuring out whats going on, to you its apparently something else, so its not the same.

what would stats or numbers have to do with this convo? You are saying the game is full of pointless quests, I am saying they are not pointless. You say they have nothing to do with the story, or world, i am telling you they reveal many stories, and the world.

A beef with cdprjk based on bugs, does not mean every negative thing a player comes up with is accurate, also, I am a player, and a customer why is your opinion supposed to be more valid than mines. I looked at the ads, and marketing, its what I saw in the videos, the deep dives, etc. You think every player should be outraged? Many are not, sometimes you meet somebody with a different take. I am discussing a game, not defending a corporation.

ok heres a stat, out of 380,000 people asked, 77.5% of them give the game a thumbs up. the average player played for 49.2 hours. So there's a lot of people who like the game, and probably want more.

 

[Sgt_Thundercok]

Can't speak for anyone else but Rockstar's games bore me out of my mind. They're a chore to play, the stories aren't emotionally engaging, the characters are unrelatable assholes and the combat is just dull. Last Rockstar game I liked was San Andreas and I think that's mostly nostalgia, if I went back to it today I'd probably hate it too.

You framed exactly what RDR2 felt like to me. I didn't get past chapter 5. I'm not into GTA but love western games and I was anticipating RDR2 so much. Even bought a 21:9 monitor for it. What a slog. Cliched, predictable story, unlikeable characters, story missions slogging through on rails. Riddled with bugs on PC still today. Yet here we sit with CDPR getting all the flak. Nope, they got their fanboys locked in that they can do no wrong.

In the end all that matters to me is what I enjoy. 358 hours in Cyberpunk at this point. Didn't even make it through RDR2.

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2021

an empty one, no fun stuff to do.

You see that awesome city, but outside the "missions" there is nothing to do.
That is exactly why CP77 suffers so much from the missing stuff.

You mean the missions that I've spent 358 hours on in two playthroughs? Yes, it's just horrible. Tewwible I tell you, tewwible!

 

[CS554]

Only side activities I'm interest about are related to skills. Working training bot for Brawling skill that would also synergize with Athletics and all this would also contribute towards player skill. Skill exp could be capped based to that bot programming is limited how far its able to push V from V's comfort zone.

Opening shooting range on V's megabuilding would again help with player skill. Perhaps a bit more relevant on game pad than kbm though.

What comes to cop chases and that. CDRP is on right path with vehicle physics, though I don't think it's in its finished form yet. If CDPR would add something like that I would like to see something similar to NFS: Heat night races rather than GTA. With drones in game things could actually get intense.

 

[GHOSTMD]

You mean the missions that I've spent 358 hours on in two playthroughs? Yes, it's just horrible. Tewwible I tell you, tewwible!

I did spend 255 hours on the game, that is why i say it is not a bad game, but it suffers heavy from the
missing "GTA SA" like things alongside some third person animations for certain situations.

The missions aren't the issue, the the missing systems from the 2018/19 demo are. Heck not even
the world itself, because Night City SHOWS you all the stuff, you just can t do the stuff.

 

[Mentos3]

Heck not even
the world itself, because Night City SHOWS you all the stuff, you just can t do the stuff.

What it shows?
Restaurants, maybe, clubs, shops... That's it. Parks and nature are 95% ugly, seas and ocean polluted, no animals etc. Because town of the future, bla.
I really wonder what could make NC a town, where I want to spend my time.
Any ideas?

 

[SpookyFX]

Just kind of a wish list...

Things I tried (want) to do while just spending time walking around the city that I have seen NPC do but I cannot:
(These city interactions I think mod makers will eventually add to the game)

Buy from the street food merchants were ever NPC do.
Go into shops that say open for business.
Play the video games.
Play pool and other bar games.
Bar fights.
Shooting Range
Talk to the cops without being shot.
Sit down were ever NPC do. There is a GREAT arboretum, you could look at beautiful trees, plants and listen to the birds (recordings?) But not sit on the bench.


I made a Fallout 4 mod were the player searches the city and wasteland for materials and parts to build components that are used to build systems that are then assembled to build a car. With this mod I play several times a month in Fallout 4 for several years. Not because my mod is so great but because the game world is so great. You just need to give the player a half decent excuse to keep interacting with the game world.

If the Gun building in Cyberpunk was a little more detailed you could do the same kind of thing with building guns.

I just rode out in the badlands to explore and found an entire (very large) town that was empty (no people anywhere even in the bar that was open and had music and lights and doors to the back office all active but void of people).

I don't know, I just love Night City so much I want reasons to visit more often.

 

[3DITTZ]

People can't say GTA 5 is better only because some things are more realistic

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Only side activities I'm interest about are related to skills. Working training bot for Brawling skill that would also synergize with Athletics and all this would also contribute towards player skill. Skill exp could be capped based to that bot programming is limited how far its able to push V from V's comfort zone.

Opening shooting range on V's megabuilding would again help with player skill. Perhaps a bit more relevant on game pad than kbm though.

What comes to cop chases and that. CDRP is on right path with vehicle physics, though I don't think it's in its finished form yet. If CDPR would add something like that I would like to see something similar to NFS: Heat night races rather than GTA. With drones in game things could actually get intense.

yeah, I was thinking it would be cool if you could level athletics/brawling faster in the gym. Could be similar to using berserk, where you get like 30 seconds bonus exp while using it, and 30 seconds down time. And yeah, I'd like more races, maybe some with certain cars.

good suggestions

 

[dBLOOD]

GTA is not a bad game, but its head is way too deep in its own ass, Rockstar and their fans think that GTA is 'the hardcore open-world game' other games should take example of.
I like GTA5's story, it's funny and fun, but the driving is fucking dogshit, especially the flight. Btw it's not that much better than Cyberpunk's driving. Cars are way too sensitive to left and right turns, the smallest touch on the keyboard makes their nose jump out sideways. No, I'm not going to use a controller in a PC-game with precision aiming, don't even start that bullshit!
The best driving I experienced in an open-world game to date was in Saints Row 3, especially the flight. Very simplistic, no unnecessary bullshit like in GTA, where I don't even understand what half of the flight-controls even mean.
Vizima feels way more living than the city in GTA, mostly because it's a way more intimate place, a more tight environment, not a big city like Los Turdos or whatever fake-LA is called in GTA.

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2021

People can't say GTA 5 is better only because some things are more realistic

Exactly. Realism and graphics are things that sell games, but those are not the things people actually play games for.

 

[Mentos3]

I never was running in GTAV, golfen, mountainbiking or parachuting. I took the dog for a walk sometimes, pimped my rides and bought some clothes, okay. I liked the story, the characters, the music, I played it and that's it.
GTAV has a beginning, a mid, an end. It is labled as Action Adventure (with a few RPG-Elements). Nothing more.
If the other ~120 mio people did more in GTA (or RDR2) they had the option to do it. Or go to the next playground: GTA Online. But if you just play the story and have a few funny hours, everything is fine. Mission fulfilled. Over-fulfilled

Fact is: CP2077 is labled as Action Adventure (with a few RPG-Elements), too. Nothing more.
But you don't have options. Or I missed them big time.
So I really don't know why GTAV (or RDR2) get the beating here.

 

[GVArcian]

People can't say GTA 5 is better only because some things are more realistic

If realism is the metric by which one measures the quality of a game, then GTA 5 is certainly the better game, at least in terms of visual presentation.

Of course, we measure the quality of a game by more than just a single metric, and as far as overall entertainment value goes, I personally feel that GTA 5 ranks very low.

I even reinstalled the game just to make sure I wasn't just misremembering how much I disliked it, but nope, it felt like a chore to play, with janky movement and driving controls and a feel to the gameplay that doesn't feel natural in a video game. Granted, there is weight behind character's physical actions, such as engaging in melee, but it looks far better than it feels.

There's also little relatable about the characters or the story they engage in, they feel more like caricatures of real characters in a piece of satire than real characters in a serious story in and of themselves, and that's not a good thing. GTA's overreliance on satire also means you'll have a hard time taking anything seriously since there's nothing serious to ground the story in reality. So the game suffers from a jarring dissonance between a very realistically grounded visual presentation and a story presentation that lacks any semblance of realism.