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Is it possible to have a open world and a good story?

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S

Scholdarr.452

Banned
#81
Apr 23, 2015
lord_blex said:
why does open world and story driven have to be mutually exclusive?
Click to expand...
It depends on how you define "story-driven". I think it's meant as "controlled/directed/staged/linear experience" here.

But I also think it's not about absolute terms. It's more about ratios and how much of each you prefer.

Simple example:

Version A:
You have a main quest. To reach the next location in your journey you get a small cutscene and are transported to the spot to experience the story there. You can explore the space a bit but only to a limited account. The main quest is always at least as "dominant" as the side stuff and you can't get away from it, at least not far.

Version B:
You have a main quest. To reach the next location in your journey you have to travel there yourself which takes already quite some time. On the way there you can just do what you want. You could kill 1000 wolves, save 5 towns and plough 3 women. And when you finally reach the spot of your next main quest you've spent already 25 hours into the game and you've almost already forgotten what the main story was all about. The side stuff is huge compared to the main quest and there is a lot of content that isn't really directly connected to your main journey.


As you can see, version A is much more linear in terms of story-telling. You follow a certain, predefined path with some, but only limited space for exploration. The main focus is on the main story though. That's a very-story driven approach, simply because the story is the main element of the game. In version B the story can of course also be very important but it has to share its place at least with exploration. So it's a story-and-exploration-driven game at least and not "only" a story-driven game. It's a question of focus. Making a big world with much side content and stuff to find always takes away from the focus on the story or main narrative. The "share of game elements" is bigger for exploration here, obviously. And from that, problems can arise for storytelling in general. In the last video from Gamespot one of the CDPR guys said that he hated it when you get lost in a game and forgot what the main story was all about. Therefore you can play side stuff after you finished the main storyline. That' nice in theory but the practice looks way different - at least in my experience. People still tend to do all the side stuff (at least the people who really get into the game) before doing the main story, and obviously the more interesting and exciting the side stuff the more you likely do the stuff. And experienced gamers now that at one point you might lose interest in a game. That's just natural. You get fed up with a game, satisfied, saturated. You want something fresh. So you keep the main storyline as a motivation to continue. And of course you want to be strong and you want to level up. So that's all making you going away from the story, "losing the red line in the process". In a game that focuses less on exploration and more on story-telling that can't really happen, at least not to the same extend. Like in Witcher 2 with its act structure you can only do so much side content at a time before you have to continue the main quest. That way you never lose focus. And of course there is a sense of urgency that cannot be reached in an open world game where most people and events just wait for you to finally come by. That lacking sense of urgency is a real problem in open world games and from what I've heard CDPR couldn't solve that properly neither. The more freedom the player has the more difficult it gets for the developer to maintain a certain sense of urgency and to build up tension. You might win interesting stories on the side but you might lose the overall exciting plot, boldly spoken.
 
Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
S

sonicdart

Rookie
#82
Apr 23, 2015
I really enjoyed how the witcher 1 and 2 are set up..

I enjoyed the quasi open world/linear and focus experience those games gave in a way those games are similar in the same way as dragon age: Origins.

But making it completely open world did not help games like for instance DA:I I feel as though a lot of the quest in that game were just filler to add to the almighty how many hours of gameplay also the game play did not have features or the amount of polish the first game had (for instance you could not command the AI well and the overview mode was garbage, also the gameplay itself was buggy especially in melee combat where you would sometimes swing and the hit would not connect or the balance in general was crap.)

I hear they want to combine the features of a open world game and the deep and well made quality of their last two games not only in the main quest, but for the sidequest as well. This is all well and good, but I really really hope that I don't play the witcher 3 and go "well that was pretty decent I guess, but I wonder how much time they took away from making great sidequest and a main story to make this open world".

it's just hard to believe that an open world of 100-200 hours of content will have the same quality of content as say a game that is 30-50 hours long and slightly smaller hub worlds.

In the end though I can't talk bad about a game that is not even out yet i'm very skeptical especially after DA:I about their approach especially since this is their first open world game, but this is CD PROJEKT we are talking about and they have yet to disappoint on top of being one of the best (if not the best) companies when it comes to customer relations.
 
M

MikeP999

Rookie
#83
Apr 23, 2015
If it was a choice of one or the other, I choose Story Driven!
Why? I don't like aimlessly wandering the world without a purpose.

Now - with this game, I presume there's a main Story that you can follow, in addition to 'Open World' quests to beef up your stats / find equipment etc.
I can get bored rather quickly from aimlessly going off the beaten path. I've done it before and I end up not playing the game for quite awhile. But that's just me.
I need the guided excitement, that a story provides.
Or, at least exciting quests in and of themselves.
 
Darkhollow

Darkhollow

Forum veteran
#84
Apr 23, 2015
I like the way CDPR are doing it..giving us a Witcher 2 story experience but in an open world setting. I think they are the only ones who can prove that, because the mentality of open world games is "great sandbox but crap storytelling".
 
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kofeiiniturpa

kofeiiniturpa

Mentor
#85
Apr 23, 2015
I prefer the old style. Big open worlds normally just mean a lot of busywork and prop scenery to watch to me.
 
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L

Lieste

Ex-moderator
#86
Apr 23, 2015
This is a false dichotomy. The presence of an open world neither requires nor prevents a story driven game, nor vice versa. While older games have tended to fall rather heavily on one side of this spectrum or the other, none have been so exquisitely written that improvement to story is impossible, nor so open world that some (or lots) of loading screens couldn't be culled.

From early evidence, the story of W3 is strongly emphasised, both within the main quest and continually drawn back to it from side quests. It also has a class leading open world(s) with no loading screens between the 'world' and normal interiors, and relatively few 'jump scenes' between different open regions.

We can't be sure how it places in the spectrum of "all games", but it may beat most story driven games for plot and story, while simultaneously beating most "open world" games for freedom of travel and actions.
 
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H

huber1989

Senior user
#87
Apr 23, 2015
I don't quite understand how anybody's supposed to answer your poll. We haven't played TW3 yet after all, seems kinda tough to make a decision based on that.
 
I

iCapital

Rookie
#88
Apr 23, 2015
I know you guys have a stigma against DA:I referencing, but I'm going to do it for the sake of contributing to this argument since I haven't played TW3 yet :)

I hated the excessive linearity of DA2, but loved it in DA1 (weird huh). But when DA:I came out with the open world concept...I fell in love. It was like a nice mix between holding my hand throughout a long journey, and letting me do whatever I wanted at the same time. Sure the starting zone of Hinterlands was just WAYY too big IMO, it seems like TW3 learned from DA:I's mistake and made the first zone very small.

Either way, from my own personal previous observations, an open world concept WITH holding on to that linear feel with respects to the main story is more than possible. There's no need to limit yourself to only one :) just my opinion.
 
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L

Lieste

Ex-moderator
#89
Apr 23, 2015
iCapital said:
Iit seems like TW3 learned from DA:I's mistake and made the first zone very small.

Either way, from my own personal previous observations, an open world concept WITH holding on to that linear feel with respects to the main story is more than possible. There's no need to limit yourself to only one :) just my opinion.
Click to expand...
It is actually the first three regions that are small...
Kaer Morhen (tutorial, and returned later in game?)
White Orchard (prologue, and returned later in game if desired)
Palace of Vizima (main story mission setting and gateway onward to the NML region)
 
I

iCapital

Rookie
#90
Apr 23, 2015
Lieste said:
It is actually the first three regions that are small...
Kaer Morhen (tutorial, and returned later in game?)
White Orchard (prologue, and returned later in game if desired)
Palace of Vizima (main story mission setting and gateway onward to the NML region)
Click to expand...
Even better then! More hand holding before you enter the open world.
 
A

acbatchelor

Rookie
#91
Apr 23, 2015
I'm offended. I chose "I'm a male gamer" and it told me 94 people agree. Who the hell is saying I'm a female? LOL :lol:
 
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G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator
#92
Apr 23, 2015
The poll is full of false dichotomies, and the purpose of redfoxclan.com is to collect marketing data for a commercial venture. Opt in if you agree that pretending concepts like "open world" vs. "story driven" have an excluded middle, and you want the owners of the site to sell the opinions your provide.

If you want to discuss the topics of the poll on this forum, we have a facility for making polls, and it will be visible to every fan of the games who has a forum account.
 
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Vincentdante

Vincentdante

Forum veteran
#93
Apr 23, 2015
I'm not voting on a poll that isn't the forums poll system.

My actual answer at any rate is that the game isn't out yet, I haven't played it to compare so I don't know. I don't want to let hype and what if's make my mind up for me.
 
G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator
#94
Apr 23, 2015
Moderator: On further review, it appears Red Fox Clan has no visible privacy policy. The moderators will remove links to the site until its safety and bona fides have been established.
 
S

SystemShock7

Senior user
#95
Apr 23, 2015
iCapital said:
it seems like TW3 learned from DA:I's mistake and made the first zone very small..
Click to expand...
Please, do tell, how did you arrive to this conclusion?
 
I

iCapital

Rookie
#96
Apr 23, 2015
SystemShock7 said:
Please, do tell, how did you arrive to this conclusion?
Click to expand...
It's been stated repeatedly already that TW3's initial zone takes about 4 hours. There's how I arrived to that conclusion.
 
cyberpunkforever

cyberpunkforever

Forum veteran
#97
Apr 24, 2015
high detailed hand crafted living breathing story driven colorful open world like tw3 ;)
 
S

SystemShock7

Senior user
#98
Apr 24, 2015
iCapital said:
It's been stated repeatedly already that TW3's initial zone takes about 4 hours. There's how I arrived to that conclusion.
Click to expand...
So the initial zone in TW3 takes about 4 hours, therefore CDPR "learned from DA:I's mistake"? Yeah, makes sense lol
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#99
Apr 24, 2015
As the link to the poll has been removed, and the discussion seems to be primarily on the false dichotomy posed in the main question, thread has been merged in with an earlier one.

Hopefully it won't turn into a discussion on DA:I.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#100
Apr 24, 2015
iCapital said:
It's been stated repeatedly already that TW3's initial zone takes about 4 hours. There's how I arrived to that conclusion.
Click to expand...
I guess that time's relativity theory could help you a little.... Even more, 1 hour of final examens is infinitively longer than a party of 5 hours long.
 
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