Is it too little too late?

[NonBritGit]

Sure, you guys can have your multiplayer and your PVP just as soon as they get the base game fixed up OK? I suspect it takes years to 'multiplayer' a game. All the quests and NPCs have to change to account for multiple people involved. Devs are in way over their heads as it is.

Also, have you seen the 'forced' 3rd person videos? CP ain't going within a 100 miles of multiplayer until 3rd person gets ironed out.

 

[GrimReaper801]

They made the 13 mio. with refund public 1-3 days after big sellers like Bestbuy, MS, Gamestop said that they will refund. At that time never ever, they already had valid numbers. And 1 day before the timeline for this Gog-refundwhatever ran out.
If they had said that we've sold "13 mio. with refunds, but we still have to wait how much customers take the offer." that would've been a honest. But they didn't. And like calculated everyone is saying "But 13 mio.!". And everytime I say "But..."
For me the 13 mio is PR. Sorry, but I'm now really suspicous if CDPR give out success messages.

And Topseller: How many AAA-Wonders released in the last 4-5 weeks? Maybe I missed some. Activision-Blizzard, Ubisoft they all throw their games on the marked weeks earlier. EA had nothing, as far I remember.

You can get TW3+DLCs for 15,- € since years, it isn't new. I bought it 2019 for PS and 2020 year for XBox. 15,- €

It's ok to be suspicious and it's entirely your prerogative. I'm inclined to believe their statement. The last thing they needed was to outright lie about sales with several pending lawsuits from their investors. It would be a terrible move.

You also seem to be under the impression that millions upon millions of people are refunding the game but the simple truth is that the majority of people are happy with the game. 325K reviews on Steam. 78% of them positive. Both Metacritic and GOG paint a similar picture. I'm pretty certain their number holds up, people who are positive about a game rarely get a refund for it.

The lack of release from other AAA titles is also irrelevant with the winter sale numbers. Cyberpunk was dislodged from #1 by a DLC for counterstrike GO, one of THE most popular games in the entire world. Literally THE most played game on Steam since... forever. Yet, CP2077 took back it's #1 spot from it. It stands to reason it had to sell A LOT of copies for this to happen.

It's all guesswork from both me and you without CDPR releasing updated numbers but I seriously doubt the game isn't a huge commercial success. Note that it didn't hit their projected sale numbers but it's not that far below them.

You can get TW3+DLCs for 15,- € since years, it isn't new. I bought it 2019 for PS and 2020 year for XBox. 15,- €

I don't get your point with this.

 

[Blue_Light77]

Not by any stretch saying that we're wasting our time (I don't consider it wasting my time since I enjoy debating over topics I like). But we are in an ocean of subjectivity for sure. Taking what you're finding on one forum on the internet gathering about 0.1% of a games population doesn't make it the objective truth. Seems obvious to me.
To give an example, it's that old Wow trope : go on World of Warcraft forums and check the subclasses forums. You'll only see people crying about their class being underpowered and every other class being overpowered.

Just as it is obvious internet economy is centered around creating buzz and milking content, so the amount of videos bashing / praising one product doesn't mean it's objectively a good / bad product.

As shocking as it may sound to some people, internet isn't representative of a population's opinion.

I agree in part. But we must put things in perspective: many of those giving suggestions and criticisms are those following the game's announcement and marketing since day one, many of them used to play the p&p game, so if there is some criticism it should be taken in account and sort what was caused by hype and what is fair criticism (constructive).

Rejecting them by default isn't good. In this very specific microcosmos it counts.

 

[Sillivanukas]

Too late?
Nah, it honestly hasn't been that long. It just feels long, because lot of people have been hyperfixated on this situation.

Too little?
That depends what the their timeline's "multiple updates & improvements" will be. I'm not as disappointed as many here (I didn't pay too much attention to promotion and promises), so I imagine I'll be satisfied enough by the end of this. But I doubt the people who expected significantly more substance will be getting their way.

 

[lelxrv]

Ever thought there are also people who play, don't come to post whatever their thoughts are on the internet, and just stay silent enjoying (or not) a product ?
Not everything relies on what transpires online.
Look at the sales number for example, even with refunds counted in. 13 millions + consumers and yet, all we hear about is maybe 0.5% of them arguing about whether the game is good or not. And the game is still #1 on steam so... if you listen closely enough, I think you'll hear the sweet sound of the majority of people not caring at all about this backlash. We play the game, enjoy it/or not, then move on.

Whatever you find online isn't representative at all in my book.

By the same logic you cannot know how much of these 13 mil. of people are happy customers. Just because they bought the game and didn't refund, doesn't mean they aren't disappointed. I'm one of these people. I didn't refund the game. And I'm rather mixed on it.

We certainly can compare reception of games like Witcher 3 to Cyberpunk 2077. When a game is loved by vast majority, it's easy to see. When reaction is mixed - there are countless of videos raising points about lacking quality, overpromised and underdelivered.

Also, don't measure people's impression by sales numbers. Or you will end up thinking Suicide Squad is a well-loved movie classic.

 

[Uzziel91]

That all depends on what the 'its too late' for, surely. If it takes a year to get those 'big patches' they mention and that's all they do is stabilise the game and add a barber shop. That'll be the game over for me and many others.

If in that time frame we get much more content that we expected to be in the game then no, its not too little too late. It'll be worth it.

 

[NevaEilhart]

By the same logic you cannot know how much of these 13 mil. of people are happy customers. Just because they bought the game and didn't refund, doesn't mean they aren't disappointed. I'm one of these people. I didn't refund the game. And I'm rather mixed on it.

We certainly can compare reception of games like Witcher 3 to Cyberpunk 2077. When a game is loved by vast majority, it's easy to see. When reaction is mixed - there are countless of videos raising points about lacking quality, overpromised and underdelivered.

Also, don't measure people's impression by sales numbers. Or you will end up thinking Suicide Squad is a well-loved movie classic.

I didn't assume what those 13 million consumers were thinking about the game though. Quite the contrary actually. I answered the question "is this game a disappointment" by telling we can't know that based on popular online reaction. That's all. And I think we both agree on that matter.

 

[Mobster100]

Ever thought there are also people who play, don't come to post whatever their thoughts are on the internet, and just stay silent enjoying (or not) a product ?
Not everything relies on what transpires online.
Look at the sales number for example, even with refunds counted in. 13 millions + consumers and yet, all we hear about is maybe 0.5% of them arguing about whether the game is good or not. And the game is still #1 on steam so... if you listen closely enough, I think you'll hear the sweet sound of the majority of people not caring at all about this backlash. We play the game, enjoy it/or not, then move on.

Whatever you find online isn't representative at all in my book.

I think that is slightly incorrect. I for instance have played games which I didn't like, but never commented on it to the developers or on a forum, I simply don't buy the next game they make, if it is of similar nature or part two in the series.

And my bet is that a lot of people don't care to go to a forum to complain, they might have bought it for their PS4 and see that it is a mess, some might try to refund it, others simply don't bother or might try it later, but ultimately lost interest in the product or expansions etc. due to that.

For many people playing games is a hobby as much as it is just some light entertainment. The latter group I doubt would bother complaining.. but those that see it more as a hobby will complain. Its no different than if you collect model trains and the train breaks half the time it goes around a corner or something. Either people will stop buying from that company or they will complain.

And if no one cared to give the companies feedback... (and even when we do) they time after time think it is a good idea to release games based on "We will fix it later". Anyone that enjoy a hobby will know that it is not a good thing, its annoying and it ruins the industry and trust in these companies, that they are actually able to deliver good quality. How annoying is it that you buy something, for it to then be broken for around a year before fixed? People accept that there are issues with software when released, its complex and lots of things can go wrong. But the state that some of these games release in, doesn't take more than 5 minutes of playing them to see that something is wrong or completely broken.

It simply shouldn't be accepted by players that companies can release games in such state and then act as if they had no clue. Of course they know, if you have worked on something for the last 4-8 years every single day and have no clue at what state it is in... then you are simply lying, have no clue what is going on or choosing to ignore it.
And I don't think the management of these companies are unaware of what is going on with their projects. They choose to release games broken to then fix them later, because a lot of people accept it and won't complain about it. I don't get why people will defend it, if they got a half cooked burger at MCdonalds they would go complain, and wouldn't accept that the manager simply told them that they could reheat it within the next 30 minutes or whenever they got time for it.

Also some people took vacation based on this and can only imagine how angry they must be, especially if they bought it on consoles. And buying games might be a peanuts for you, but I don't find them especially cheap to be honest, at least not to the point where I will just accept that they are broken and just live with it.

 

[lelxrv]

I didn't assume what those 13 million consumers were thinking about the game though. Quite the contrary actually. I answered the question "is this game a disappointment" by telling we can't know that based on popular online reaction. That's all. And I think we both agree on that matter.

No, we don't. You tried to prove it by bringing up the idea that since we don't know opinions of every last customer, we can't estimate if it's a disappointment or not. Argument Badowski-style. There's clear difference in reception of games that are almost universally loved and those that have mixed impressions.

 

[NevaEilhart]

No, we don't. You tried to prove it by bringing up the idea that since we don't know opinions of every last customer, we can't estimate if it's a disappointment or not. Argument Badowski-style. There's clear difference in reception of games that are almost universally loved and those that have mixed impressions.

Ok then, I agree to disagree strongly. Look at polls for political elections, you'll see that more than often, "representative pools" of interviewed people don't actually represent all of the population. Same here with the internet.
(disclaimer : I'm not trying to defend nor bash CDPR btw).

It simply shouldn't be accepted by players that companies can release games in such state and then act as if they had no clue. Of course they know, if you have worked on something for the last 4-8 years every single day and have no clue at what state it is in... then you are simply lying, have no clue what is going on or choosing to ignore it.
And I don't think the management of these companies are unaware of what is going on with their projects. They choose to release games broken to then fix them later, because a lot of people accept it and won't complain about it. I don't get why people will defend it, if they got a half cooked burger at MCdonalds they would go complain, and wouldn't accept that the manager simply told them that they could reheat it within the next 30 minutes or whenever they got time for it.

Also some people took vacation based on this and can only imagine how angry they must be, especially if they bought it on consoles. And buying games might be a peanuts for you, but I don't find them especially cheap to be honest, at least not to the point where I will just accept that they are broken and just live with it.

Not at all contesting that. It's not what I'm stating.
What I'm arguing about is that online reviews or such aren't representative of what a population think globaly. I don't want to bring these topics up because they're likely to go off the forums policies so I'll stop there, but look at what "cancel culture" has been doing for the past years. Would you assume it's fair to say it's representative of how the vast majority of people think ?
Another thing is how social medias, and internet in general, promotes you content you're likely to love. This creates a bubble where you have only things matching your opinion that come up as recommendations, which prevent you to see there's an "other side" with people thinking differently. You'll find quite a lot of sociological studies on that very matter. What you get in recommendations isn't what all people think. Hence why "the internet" isn't reliable as an objective source. I'll respectfully stop the disgression here before it becomes political or whatever and a mod has to intervene.

Again, I'm not arguing about whether or not CDPR did a good move or a bad one. My point is on the internet not being representative enough.

 

[Cloud7]

This game is already dead in the water. You have more interaction mechanics in a game called "Saints Row" from 2006. All you have on your side is amazing graphics and soundtrack.
Aside from that you need big and i mean very big patches for this game to come even close to the gameplay footage from 2018.
Entire parts of the city are blocked off and empty.
Almost every building is locked as well.
No adult content in a city full of Sin.
No customization of any sort for anything.

And the list could go on.

Not a expert in such stuff but you would need to revamp the game by a huge margin to get to the point what no man's sky pulled off. And we know CDPR can do it given time. However in gaming evidence shows that you only have a small time window of about 1 year before everyone abandons you.

 

[xWITCHER117x]

I think they can turn this around If they look at players' feedback and look at what they promised and what they delivered.
If they choose to go on the path of Adam Badowski and still keep touting 9's and 10's I think it won't help them and it will get worse for their future projects as well. Leads who ignore fans' feedback and try to rug it under the carpet will fall badly on their own words in the near future.

I was watching the Night City wire and I feel so bad they were still lying that much closer to release.

I do believe if they truly want to turn this around they can we have NMS and FF14 as an example where Heads actually listened to feedback. I hope this will be the case this time around as well. Because I admired CDPR so much when they talked about consumers first and we won't water down our game to just attract the masses. I think now it's time to prove what they said.

 

[lelxrv]

Ok then, I agree to disagree strongly. Look at polls for political elections, you'll see that more than often, "representative pools" of interviewed people don't actually represent all of the population. Same here with the internet.

Negative reactions were strong enough for radical measures from Sony, for apologies from CDPR, for videos exposing CDPR and their practices reaching millions and millions of views.

(disclaimer : I'm not trying to defend nor bash CDPR btw).

Why are you here?

 

[NevaEilhart]

Why are you here?

Based on your answer, we're either here to defend or bash CDPR ? There's no middle ground ? There's no bigger reflexion to have about how a game which was hyped for so long ended up facing such a backlash ? About what there is to fix ? What there is to salvage ? What there is to do to prevent those things (either the backlash or the bad state of a game) to happen again ? I thought those forums were about that, and about being constructive. I must have been wrong then.

Seems like I should be the one questionning why you're on this forum dedicated to CDPR games (I won't because I don't want to be rude, contrary to some). Not everyone is dealing with pure binary logic. Some of us actually want things to work out on both sides.

 

[lelxrv]

Based on your answer, we're either here to defend or bash CDPR ? There's no middle ground ? There's no bigger reflexion to have about how a game which was hyped for so long ended up facing such a backlash ? About what there is to fix ? What there is to salvage ? What there is to do to prevent those things (either the backlash or the bad state of a game) to happen again ? I thought those forums were about that, and about being constructive. I must have been wrong then.

Seems like I should be the one questionning why you're on this forum dedicated to CDPR games (I won't because I don't want to be rude, contrary to some). Not everyone is dealing with pure binary logic. Some of us actually want things to work out on both sides.

I asked because you seemed like you have no opinion on anything. You just want to be contrary for the sake of it. There's no mystery how the game ended up facing such a backlash. Internet is a good source of information on this topic. At least you're admitting there's a backlash. And of big proportions. Maybe even because people are disappointed or even angry? Because the game feels undercooked in many areas. Apparently the game is in a bad state. But you were puzzled by people saying the game is a disappointment?

And why am I here? I'm here to discuss the good and the bad about the game.

 

[NevaEilhart]

I asked because you seemed like you have no opinion on anything. You just want to be contrary for the sake of it. There's no mystery how the game ended up facing such a backlash. Internet is a good source of information on this topic. At least you're admitting there's a backlash. And of big proportions. Maybe even because people are disappointed or even angry? Because the game feels undercooked in many areas. Apparently the game is in a bad state. But you were puzzled by people saying the game is a disappointment?

And why am I here? I'm here to discuss the good and the bad about the game.

I get your point, and I'm here for the same reason. And I'm glad you've stated the good and the bad, because to me, that's what important : there's both good and bad. And those are the things which need to be sort out. I guess we've finally come to some sort of agreement in that matter.
If you read some of my previous posts in other topics, you'll notice I also have both good and bad things to say about the game, and I definitely understand where the backlash comes from. Though, when it comes to how internet deals with such matters, I've learned to take everything with some distance and to first try to gather more objective information and making up my own opinion. It's not that I don't have an opinion, it's just that my opinion isn't as easily fit into a chart which is either "yes" or "no".

 

[Gillian_Seed]

Honest question: where are people getting the impression that the game is a disappointment?

 

[MAXXVOLTAGE]

No, we don't. You tried to prove it by bringing up the idea that since we don't know opinions of every last customer, we can't estimate if it's a disappointment or not. Argument Badowski-style. There's clear difference in reception of games that are almost universally loved and those that have mixed impressions.

That is your opinion but really there were 13 000 000 sales .

I don't think there has been even close to 7,800,000 unique negative comments or reviews ( 60%) of 13million so no I do not believe you can stay universally that this game is a disappointment .

I personally see no evidence to support that . I personally don't accept all the "videos" that pop up as "evidence " for reason stated before

If you wanted to go do a statistical sampling on the game its self the PC metacritic ( since other platforms are tainted by bad launch and not based on the game itself ) rating is far better to use as it contains more base numbers than anything you see on the forums or any other social media on a quantifiable level.

Metascore
86
Generally favorable reviews based on 88 Critic Reviews What's this?
User Score
7.2
Mixed or average reviews based on 27640 Ratings

I know of no other place where 27640 users viewpoints are shared an averaged out. Or another place where 88 reviews are shared and averaged out.

Even if you exclude my personal opinion ( which is actually lower at 6.5)

if I was a person that has never even herd of this game before and I looked at the above I would say this game was a success and well received.

So based on this its far more probable to assume the general opinion of the game is a success .

( this also excludes all the legal issues removals etc etc which are outside of the game itself and hold really no relevance on a "REVIEW" )

Just on this alone and if you use this as statistical sampling .

" the game was received well by players" if a far more " statically probable " answer of the majority of "13 000 000" players

than "players were disappointed in the game" which really has No actual "Statistical" evidence behind it.

Negative reactions were strong enough for radical measures from Sony, for apologies from CDPR, for videos exposing CDPR and their practices reaching millions and millions of views.

Disagree with this I think your estimation is over exaggerated and in my view

- console were only 41% of total sales and the removal based on the " performance " of last gen not the game itself .

- The videos are subjective opinions that are based on a "working progress" and portray graphical problems not everyone say ( can say that became I saw non of the glitches and I'm part of everyone so if I didn't see not "everyone " did ) .

I don't consider the "videos " anything more than a person rant

 

[Gillian_Seed]

So based on this its far more probable to assume the general opinion of the game is a success .

The underlined is not even close to being true.

1.) Gaming journalism is notorious for being fraudulent and it is my impression that most gamers barely value score ratings if at all but instead prefer user ratings since there is no financial or inside favors benefit towards artificially rating the game higher than what it is.

The user score for PC is 7.2 which while not horrible isn't great either.
The user score for PS4 is 4.8 which in my opinion is way too high.

2.) The sales amount consists mostly of pre-sales before people knew the actual state of the game and many of that number would not have been sold if the actual state of the game was known. That is why CDPR hid the state of the game because they can't afford to be delusional about cash flow. Now that they've gotten their bag through the practices of deception, they can afford to be delusional for a short time and point to fraudulent scores of 9's and 10's..

3.) This is CDPR HQ as far as forums go and even the HQ is divided as far as opinion on the game, other sections of the internet where CDPR is not as protected it is much worse. As more and more epic videos are made comparing games from 20 years ago that 'did it better' and other videos made showing just how bad CDPR handled everything, just how low quality the game actually is...more and more people are having their Stockholm Syndrome bubbles popped and seeing the reality of the game for what it is and this trend will only continue to grow.

Given the above reality and the at best pyrrhic victory surrounding the game as a whole, it is clearly not a success.

 

[GrimReaper801]

- console were only 41% of total sales and the removal based on the " performance " of last gen not the game itself .

- The videos are subjective opinions that are based on a "working progress" and portray graphical problems not everyone say ( can say that became I saw non of the glitches and I'm part of everyone so if I didn't see not "everyone " did ) .

I don't consider the "videos " anything more than a person rant

As a side note, you lose a lot of credibility the second you say "only 41% of total sales".

That's a lot of people and copies you seems to dismiss backhandedly.