Is really The Witcher 3 more for an RPG than Cyberpunk?

[Aasimar-X]

unfortunately, witcher 3, despite having only one lifepath, is more of an rpg than cyberpunk...
perhaps not in terms of combat, but certainly in terms of choice and consequences

but it dosnt
theres only little to none impact on the end... it has what? 3 endings? ciri becomes princes or a witcher or is dead
you get small varriations of stuff you made during the game

same for cyberpunk
you get some endings..
and some variations... but those are not so big promoted as in witcher 3
what happens to Perez, Dellamain, the Sinnerman quest
most of the outcomings you can get aware of, when you turn on the radio, or watch TV...
and this is the difference..
your the saviour of the world in witcher 3
your a normal person in cyberpunk who trys to survive

i like the later one more... because its more realistic to a certain point

 

[GrimReaper801]

fun fact: halo is an RPG

you PLAY the ROLE of masterchief in the GAME halo

halo, witcher 3, and cp77 are rpg's if you want to get technical. if you're not arguing semantics, none are

See, before this thread, I would've disagreed with you. It's pretty obvious that Masterchief and his story are hardly the core gameplay element of the Halo series. Especially the further back you go.

Then Icinix's presented a point of that just makes a lot more sense. Only fools don't adjust their own point of view when presented with something that makes more sense after all

If you managed to role play the shit out of Masterchief, by all means, call it an RPG.

 

[TouPoutsou]

This is basically 1:30:00 of the guy explaining why Cyberpunk 2077 has more choices and RPG elements than the Witcher 3.

Too long to watch this now.

But yeah, what is an RPG is a philosophical discussion that has been done to death. All i can say is what is an RPG for me, and is not just role play somebody. You do that by default when you play a character in a game.

For me RPG as it has been adopted in video games has nothing to do with how the game handles the action part of the combat.
-It can be turn based, like it is on Pen and Paper and Tabletop RPGs (which is the only way possible really)
-It can be pseudo-turn based (usually you control a team and often you can use the pause button to make decisions)
-It can be real time isometric, or hack n slash (diablo clones)
-It can be Third Person Perspective Action Based (Souls series, The Witcher)
-It can be First Person Perspective Action Based (Skyrim, Mass Effect, Borderlands, basically all the FPS - RPGs)

It has to do with the ability of your character to progress towards a certain direction and create a "build" that severely impacts the gameplay. Mainly in combat but also outside of combat. But in combat should be the bare minimum for the game to be considered an RPG.

That's for me. My definition. With my criteria Cyberpunk is "more" of an RPG than the TW3, or even a deeper RPG, despite being an inferior game. Again, changing the outcome of the story through dialogue choices to me have nothing to do with a game being an RPG. If your BUILD matters alot in the dialogues, that in turn change the outcome of the story and lore, then sure.

Edit: Also deep RPG elements, or alot of RPG elements yada yada yada have nothing to do with the actual quality of the game. This is a seperate discussion.

 

[xlawx]

Witcher 3 is not the full RPG, but contains many RPG-elements your many decisions have impact on the world.

Cyberpunk is however more driven what you must have to do and your choice has very few influence. Your role doesnt matter, if you are Solo or Netrunner has no influence on decision. Its a tool, not a real role.

RPG would be, for an example:
Im against Cyberware - so I will be normal human without enhancement. You look more trustworthy. EMP cant hurt you. Enemy Netrunner has no effect on you.
If you are full of cyberware, you look intimidating and some area (no cyberware allowed) you cant entry without hesitation. Alternative way bribe, violence or convince. You are very powerful, but have biggest weakness, too.
Some to meet NPCs like Cyberware-hater or Cyberware-lover like Adam. Or its about your build how much you spent (Attribute dialogue seems to weak, how about Talent?)
That makes more RPG.

 

[GrimReaper801]

All i can say is what is an RPG for me, and is not just role play somebody. You do that by default when you play a character in a game.

To me it's a little more involved than that. I can't consider I'm role playing simply by being dropped into the shoes of a character.

I need to be able to get invested into this character and the story surrounding it. Otherwise, it's just a meat suit.

Say, Doom Eternal as an example. Sure, you're dropped into the doom marine's role but can you really roleplay as him? Can you really identify or even get invested in who the doom marine is? Myself, I can't, so I wouldn't personally call it role playing.

 

[knox606]

I guess by Definition, It's an RPG. I mean as simple as it can get honestly.
If you want to be a Smart Ass About it, Every game is an RPG cause your Role Playing as a Character within that game. COD, Battlefield, and so on, their all are "RPG's" or whatever.

CP Is an RPG For sure though, but it just doesn't really use any of the Elements to their full potential, least compared to W3. If anything, this game has more of an Illusion of Choice. All smoke and Mirrors till you bang your nose against the Mirror. Only choices that matter are Key Points and Elements within the game that is very Far and In-between and very Few. If anything, they make it very Clear whatever that point is, is going to matter. With the Constant Shooter Action and Dialogue Box's. Really gives you those RPG Vibes only for it to turn out that really, nothing happens. It is what it is.

Though damn, one thing that I digged a lot is those "Hidden" Options in Objectives. You never even knew you had another option till some shmough decides to go against what their told only to find out there's another path. That's Rad and I enjoyed that a lot. To bad there's like VERY FEW of them, if any less.

Hopefully in the future in DLC's or whatever, they'll add more elements utilizing those RPG Features fully. We're a Blank slate in Night City trying to survive, be a big ass shame to let it go to waste doing jack shit but the same old Copy and Paste Shit.

 

[Mikeindeepspace]

oh hell no
i dont wanna play as a fat male with thic glasses...^^

but your totaly correct.. making your own char is a pillar for me... i did enjoy playing gerald... but you did play someone else
if you can customize.. well you maybe dont play you.. but you play something you created

Post automatically merged: Jan 11, 2021

Agreed geralt was one hell of a relatable character and he wasnt technically human i guess my thing is i hate it when they call the game an RPG but force you to relate to/get in the mind frame of someone else's cliche archetype of a leading actor/main character

 

[Aasimar-X]

yeah.. like a quest for regina, where you have to steal a video for a cop
i didnt realize till my 3rd playthrou that the quest has more then one outcome
give him the video, kill him, catch him, or blackmail him
there are some quests with diffrent choises, if you only dare to look for them

 

[cyberpunkforever]

CP is a first person shooter with hacking skills and some melee weapons
W3 IS RPG

 

[GrimReaper801]

CP is a first person shooter with hacking skills and some melee weapons
W3 IS RPG

If you want to boil it down to a ridiculous level, sure. Can be done with almost any game lol

TW3 is a third person hack n slash with mutations and some ranged weapons.

See what I mean?

 

[Elcontusion]

let me give you an example. why was disco elysium so praised as an rpg? the game is as linear as it gets. you can't change the outcome of almost anything. also it has no combat. so where is the beauty of the game? well the beauty of it is that you get different dialogue and different descriptions of the world and the lore depending on what you choose to be. but the plot, what happens, is almost everyime set in stone. you always arrive at the same places. you may think you are making a difference when you play it but then you play it again and you realize that you can't change anything. and still nobody cared.

So if someone here thinks that cyberpunk is not really an rpg because you can't change everything with your decisions think again. what is an rpg or player agency as a concept for that matter are more complex than just changing the outcome of something. cyberpunk is more of an rpg than the witcher 3 (which is also an rpg).

 

[Aasimar-X]

thats the whole thing
there are people who like the game.. and there are people who dont

what i dont get, why are the people who dont like the game
trying so hard to tell other people how bad the game is
what i realy hate is when those are telling blunt lies like this and that is cut, which most of the time isnt
and if you show them, that they lie.. they try even harder

if you dont like the game
move on, wait for a DLC come back then.. or dont, but move on, because you cant change the game no matter how much you rant

 

[weirdwayne15]

RDR 2 is a far superior RPG. Sucks they have only focused on the multiplayer since release. However between TW3 and Cyberpunk yes TW3 is by an order of magnitude superior.

 

[GrimReaper801]

thats the whole thing
there are people who like the game.. and there are people who dont

what i dont get, why are the people who dont like the game
trying so hard to tell other people how bad the game is
what i realy hate is when those are telling blunt lies like this and that is cut, which most of the time isnt
and if you show them, that they lie.. they try even harder

if you dont like the game
move on, wait for a DLC come back then.. or dont, but move on, because you cant change the game no matter how much you rant

To be fair, it happens on both sides of the fence.

There are people who like the game and go around trying to force their own love for it upon those who don't. No matter how valid their complaint/criticism is. The fact is that as much as those who hate the game have no business telling anyone else that they should hate the game, those loving it have no business telling those who don't that they should either.

It's a two way street.

Ultimately, I think the vast majority doesn't do that on either side

 

[low_klass_intelekt]

See, before this thread, I would've disagreed with you. It's pretty obvious that Masterchief and his story are hardly the core gameplay element of the Halo series. Especially the further back you go.

Then Icinix's presented a point of that just makes a lot more sense. Only fools don't adjust their own point of view when presented with something that makes more sense after all

If you managed to role play the shit out of Masterchief, by all means, call it an RPG.

i get you. kind of like how facts are independent of opinions. it is what it is. whether you believed it to be true before you read the thread, or if you believe it now. it is now, and always has been, a fact.

so i guess at the end of the day, your opinion didn't change. just your understanding of the core argument.

 

[EMT-Fields]

I feel choice and consequence is what make an RPG, an RPG. That's what playing a role is all about; the choices you make and how the world reacts to those choices is a big part of what makes an RPG. That's why I believe Witcher 3 is an RPG and CP2077 is not. Witcher has choice and consequence. Whereas CP2077 really does not.

 

[Mebrilia]

Try out BG3 even if is in early access and you will see how a REAL RPG is.

 

[Aasimar-X]

Try out BG3 even if is in early access and you will see how a REAL RPG is.

rofl
your correct...
but still
did you see the shitstorm thats happend on the BG3 forum because people arent sattisfied with BG3?
how many are complain about how the rules are in the game.. or not in the game...and its not and RPG more a bad X-Com
i like BG3.. but looks like a lot of people dont.. same for Cyberpunk

people are just complaining about shit nowadays...
there was one here on this forum who complaint because he didnt whant to play a smoker...
*facepalm*

p.s.
do you know Solasta? much better rules from 5e... but worse story

 

[GrimReaper801]

i get you. kind of like how facts are independent of opinions. it is what it is. whether you believed it to be true before you read the thread, or if you believe it now. it is now, and always has been, a fact.

so i guess at the end of the day, your opinion didn't change. just your understanding of the core argument.

Got it wrong there.

Furthermore, my stance has changed from this thread. Call it a sudden realization from deeper introspection after reading Icinix post if you will.

Ultimately, I believe there is definitely a deeper discussion to be had about what an RPG consists off in this day and age of genre blurring together through ever increasing hardware capacities and developers' imagination. I don't have any intention of starting this conversation nor do I think this forum, in it's current condition, is a good place for this conversation.

 

[Mebrilia]

Is a different matter. Bg3 is an alpha is an early access and is currently developed listening the feedback ((Larian is actually shaping things for the better bringing the game system even closer to the source material)) still if feels like playing D&D some rules may be different but it felt like playing D&D. The world is reactive to your choice at the point that you can completely change how a whole act is playing out depending on your choice ((Even Race,Skills,Class matters)). And even who complains normally likes the game it just must want to see improved ((unless is of the Real Time with Pause Cult in that case will hate the game regardless))

On the other side you have Cyberpunk.
A game finished (they say) that is mile distant from the source material both in the systems and in the spirit of it. A game that tossed everything Cyberpunk 2020 has of distinctive to make a mediocre looter shooter with choice and concequences nearly absent and just little tiny game changing ((ending mission changing)) moment. THere is a wide difference over there.