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Is the game really an adaption of, or just inspired by, the pen & paper RPG?

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SolidKiwi

User
#1
Considering the secret message in the newest trailer stating that CD Pojekt are interested in our opinions, I would like to share my two cents:

What made me a bit disappointed is not so much the lack of 3rd person perspective, but rather that CP2077 seems to be a game that is inspired by the pen & paper RPG, rather than a faithful adaption of it. Mike Pondsmith said in one of his interviews that all the roles in the Cyberpunk games will be present in 2077, but it now seems like only 3 will be playable, and not even in the strict sense (you can mix and match). I can't help feeling that there might be a gap in terms of actual roleplay here (where we actually pick up and play a role). I remember CD Projekt said that you would even be able to print out character sheets like those you have in the pen & paper games.

Furthermore, CD Projekt even spoke of some kind of online element, which I had hoped would play out a bit like demons souls (hear me out), where the actions of other players would shape Night City in your version of the game or something of that effect. That said, I have no doubt CP2077 will be good for what it is, even though I personally had hoped for something different. After all, the game is called Cyberpunk 2077, as if it's the next major installment in the franchise, and not merely a spinoff of sorts.

Maybe I am missing something here, but I hope that we can at least have a discussion about this. What are your thoughts?
 

Snowflakez

User
#2
It is most definitely not an adaptation, not from what we've seen. A true adaptation would be remarkably difficult to create. I seriously doubt they chose only three roles just for the fun of it - they've already had this game in development for years, and it's already apparently looking great. It would take much longer to implement everything as faithfully as possible.

How do you create a completely unique story for every single role, and give them unique skills, abilities and tools?

Just my two cents. Multiplayer could come post-launch, by the way, but we've always known this will be an SP RPG first and foremost.

No matter how non-profit-focused you are, or how much you love fans and creative freedom, you eventually need to make a return on your investment. You can't just develop a game in perpetuity for a decade and hope all goes well, especially not when you continue to hire new employees and run marketing campaigns.

So, 2077 takes inspiration from the PnP, in my opinion, and it definitely tries to implement as many elements from it as it possibly can... but it won't be a true adaptation, I don't think.
 

ZenzouTarven

Poser
#3
As Snowflakez sad, an adaption of a pen & paper RPG is nearly impossible, just because of all the limitations that come with it. Same goes for character building and availability of classes. They have to ensure that all class combinations work well in the game. The job of the gamemaster in a pen & paper RPG is, in simplistic terms, to keep the game going, he has to adapt and take character choices and player decisions into consideration. You can't have that in a RPG, or its functionality is very limited. They emphasized on it being a narrative driven single player RPG, so i just wouldn't worry to much for now and wait for more information.

The fluid class system seems like an excellent choice imho.
 

SolidKiwi

User
#5
Thanks for your responses.

Fair enough, I see your points. I just hope that the other roles (or classes) will be represented at least in some way as it seems to open up a lot of potential new ways to play.
 

ghostxix

User
#7
It also could be as dlc later. And yes eventually you must release game and i would rather have less but with better quality. Its reason why i hate when some games boasts about HUGE OPEN WORLD. Its cool have lots of things in huge worlds etc but not in exchange for quality.
 

SolidKiwi

User
#8
Yes, but only by NPC's. I hope that we, as the player, will be able to play with at least with some of the skills from the other roles.
 

Suhiira

Max-Tac
#9
What they all said.

A straight one-to-one adaption of a multi-player, turn-based, PnP RPG into a video game is impossible.
You can come close (the Baldurs Gate series or Bloodlines) but there are aspects of the game that must change to fit the video game format.

We knew certain roles (Rocker, Corporate, Media, Etc.) were going to be DAMN hard to adapt into a video game because of the lack of human GM so while a bit disappointed no one is really surprised they weren't included. We also knew the combat system was going to wind up an FPS simply because we knew CP2077 wasn't going to be a turn-based game. The question was ... how were they going to incorporate character-based vice player-based combat? Were they going to at all? By apparently making Smart Guns an alternative to twitch based combat they drastically altered how they worked in the PnP but kept the "flavor" they had AND solved the character vs player based issue.

So no ... it's NOT the PnP translated faithfully into a video game, that's impossible, but it's "spiritually" the same game.
 

kofeiiniturpa

CyberPsycho
#12
From the previews we've seen, yes. You just point in the general direction. CDPR specifically said they put them in for people who weren't big on the concept of FPS combat.
Yeah, I've read abou it. I mean, does it solve the issue. Is there any character skill involved (is there even a character skill for shooting)? If yes, how much? Or is it just a "enemy seeking" bulletspray?
 

Snowflakez

User
#13
Yeah, I've read abou it. I mean, does it solve the issue. Is there any character skill involved (is there even a character skill for shooting)? If yes, how much? Or is it just a "enemy seeking" bulletspray?
Ah, in that case, I have no clue. I'd be interested to get more details about the presence of a possible "shooting" skill. I imagine there will be something like that, since previews mention a subdermal hand grip that makes shooting easier.

At the very least, it lets you not focus on combat and put more of your skills/attention into stuff like stealth, speech, hacking, engineering, etc.
 

Suhiira

Max-Tac
#14
From the previews we've seen, yes. You just point in the general direction. CDPR specifically said they put them in for people who weren't big on the concept of FPS combat.
Me !
Me !
Me !

Till I heard about that I was thinking ... FPS? Guess I'm not playing CP2077 after all, hope the rest of you have fun.
 

kofeiiniturpa

CyberPsycho
#15
At the very least, it lets you not focus on combat
I do not wish to actively avoid combat. I want to have fun with it where I see it relevant and feel like I'm playing an RPG.

If the smart guns use character based RNG checks to see if the bullets hit (perhaps increasing the chance if I aim longer), I'm golden. If it's just about point, shoot, watch bullets find their target by default with no strings attached... it's just lame. A crutch.

If they work as they (in my view) should, I'd play the game in no other way.
 

Snowflakez

User
#16
I do not wish to actively avoid combat. I want to have fun with it where I see it relevant and feel like I'm playing an RPG.

If the smart guns use character based RNG checks to see if the bullets hit (perhaps increasing the chance if I aim longer), I'm golden. If it's just about point, shoot, watch bullets find their target by default with no strings attached... it's just lame. A crutch.

If they work as they (in my view) should, I'd play the game in no other way.
Yeah, sorry, no clue there. It'll definitely be something to ask them.

I can guarantee you that it won't be tactical, turn based, or body-part-selecty, though. So if that's what you want, probably best to set your expectations even lower than they are right now and see if you still have any interest in the game.

IF you just want gunplay where character skill has a noticeable impact, I think that's much more likely. Stability, reloading speed, overall accuracy should be pretty damn easy to implement based on a weapon skill. But I seriously doubt it's just going to be dice-rolly. More likely your bullets have a chance to go off in a direction you weren't aiming, or the gun will be unstable and difficult to aim, etc.
 

kofeiiniturpa

CyberPsycho
#17
I can guarantee you that it won't be tactical, turn based
Not even tactical? Oh boy, this really isn't going too well. Yeah, no. TB hopes are from years ago.

I meant that, as described, the smart guns require only to point in the general direction of the enemy. How do the bullets find their way, based on what. If it really is "smart gun" and is linked to the character via hyperlink, it'd make sense that it'd take character skill and perception into account (obviously among other things like range, visibility and other possible modifiers) when determining if the bullet actually finds its target.

If it's just an automated mechanism that by always working mitigates twitching for few players... what's the point?

It would appear that the way smart guns actually function has a big role in how much the game regains its appeal with me.
 

Snowflakez

User
#18
Not even tactical? Oh boy, this really isn't going too well. Yeah, no. TB hopes are from years ago.

I meant that, as described, the smart guns require only to point in the general direction of the enemy. How do the bullets find their way, based on what. If it really is "smart gun" and is linked to the character via hyperlink, it'd make sense that it'd take character skill and perception into account (obviously among other things like range, visibility and other possible modifiers) when determining if the bullet actually finds its target.

If it's just an automated mechanism that by always working mitigates twitching for few players... what's the point?
You know what I meant by tactical.

The point is, as you said yourself, letting some users avoid twitch combat. No other reason is necessary, really. RPG fans are not always good at twitch combat, but this allows them to still enjoy the game without needing to be good at it.

I don't really understand what purpose a smart gun would serve if it wasn't, y'know, smart. If I have one in real life and aim in the direction of somebody, why should my perception or anything else matter (except range and visibility, obvious stuff)? It's (probably, I don't claim to know the specifics) going to hit the target, so long as they don't have cover, I'm within range, and they don't have some sort of augmentation that lets them dodge bullets.

Now, with regular guns, I can see the argument for character skills affecting it. That's obvious and I'm with you.
 

kofeiiniturpa

CyberPsycho
#19
You know what I meant by tactical.
I need to use more smilies.

The point is, as you said yourself, letting some users avoid twitch combat. No other reason is necessary, really.
But should it not be "fun" and "engaging" at the same time still, and not just the said crutch (or an "easy-mode") to simplify combat for people who the mechanic then would assume are handicapped somehow? That shouldn't be the underlying goal. I'm not handicapped, I just prefer different mechanisms over simple FPS and would very much like them to be something I'd have to consider while I play.

The original Doom had an auto aim when you pointed at a target. That was a fun game, that's not what I want or would expect here where everything else seems to be given so much attention.

I don't really understand what purpose as mart gun would serve if it wasn't, y'know, smart. If I have one in real life and aim in the direction of somebody, why should my perception or anything else matter (except range and visibility, obvious stuff)? It's going to hit the target, so long as they don't have cover, or some sort of augmentation that lets them dodge bullets.
You forget that it has to recognize the target, and it is jacked to your head to take cues from where you focus. And sometimes the possible targets come in a bundle where not everyone even is a target. It's a smart gun, but it's not smarter than you. Also, if there is a skill for shooting, the smart gun as a default "will-hit" mechanic renders the skill (and possible implants that modify the skill) useless, that's not good design by any metric. And by solving one problem halfway, it creates another.

with regular guns, I can see the argument for character skills affecting it. That's obvious and I'm with you.
Yes, that's obvious.
 

Suhiira

Max-Tac
#20
If the smart guns use character based RNG checks to see if the bullets hit (perhaps increasing the chance if I aim longer), I'm golden. If it's just about point, shoot, watch bullets find their target by default with no strings attached... it's just lame. A crutch.

If they work as they (in my view) should, I'd play the game in no other way.
Yep, my question exactly.