......Is this the end?

[Myajha]

In the law or its institutions, fans 'or non-fans' beliefs do not matter. What matters is the law. And any action taken against the CD will be from the Polish forum, the company's headquarters. Principle of international law, including commercial law. But this is a matter that concerns the company, not me ... but I find these topics that spread fake news, gossip, etc. funny.

You know you were doing good, and I agree with your post, until the very last comment about fake new, then you just proved my point. Some people will try and defend whatever they are loyal to, and ignore facts, just to support their own agenda. There is a man out there looking at a class action lawsuit. The company has apologized for releasing a game to the public that ran poorly. Sony has delisted the game, due to poor performance.

The question now is, how willfully was it, and exactly what was said to the investors. That we don't know.

 

[Madae]

No, it's not. If you're talking about the general gamer community at large, sure they might seem like they're constantly upset but on an individual level, we are not. At least, most aren't. Just like most aren't apathetic.

You can offer suggestions without complaining, speculating or otherwise being negative about the goings-on of CDPR and 2077. It really doesn't have anything to do with being apathetic.

 

[MojoBreaker]

sorry for suggesting that it was a joke

 

[IskrasFemme]

You know you were doing good, and I agree with your post, until the very last comment about fake new, then you just proved my point. Some people will try and defend whatever they are loyal to, and ignore facts, just to support their own agenda. There is a man out there looking at a class action lawsuit. The company has apologized for releasing a game to the public that ran poorly. Sony has delisted the game, due to poor performance.

The question now is, how willfully was it, and exactly what was said to the investors. That we don't know.

There are several, from legal entities (companies) to individuals - those who individually invest in securities (here we call it with a word in specific: 'titles', or any other name, etc ...)

I have no way of knowing what will happen (I'm not a futurologist). But these 'investors' are the last on my personal list of interests about Cyberpunk, the game. My interest is in the game, not in futurology or gossip from youtubers.

 

[Myajha]

There are several, from legal entities (companies) to individuals - those who individually invest in securities (here we call it with a word in specific: 'titles'., Or any other name, etc ...)

I have no way of knowing what will happen (I'm not a futurologist). But these 'investors' are the last on my personal list of interests about Cyberpunk, the game. My interest is in the game, not in futurology or gossip from youtubers.

I agree with you, but you should be very concerned with investors right now. Now you're going to ask me why.

Because it's the investors right now that are going to determine the remaining course of the game. It's the investors that are going to determine what the Board thinks is the most profitable way forward. It's the investors that are really going to determine the make up of the Board, and it's the investors that are going to determine how much money CDPR has to put into DLC and Expansions.

Right now their stock is pretty much holding steady from Friday's close. That's not a bad thing, that means that while many investors may have jumped ship, the remaining ones are pretty much holding steady. They may not be buying up any stock, but they're not selling. They're seeing stability, and to them that means they see a way forward that's going to maximize their returns.

Now I can predict some good reasons for that, and some not so good reasons for that, but what I'm seeing is that none of them are seeing the demise of CDPR.

 

[IskrasFemme]

I agree with you, but you should be very concerned with investors right now. Now you're going to ask me why.

Because it's the investors right now that are going to determine the remaining course of the game. It's the investors that are going to determine what the Board thinks is the most profitable way forward. It's the investors that are really going to determine the make up of the Board, and it's the investors that are going to determine how much money CDPR has to put into DLC and Expansions.

Right now their stock is pretty much holding steady from Friday's close. That's not a bad thing, that means that while many investors may have jumped ship, the remaining ones are pretty much holding steady. They may not be buying up any stock, but they're not selling. They're seeing stability, and to them that means they see a way forward that's going to maximize their returns.

Now I can predict some good reasons for that, and some not so good reasons for that, but what I'm seeing is that none of them are seeing the demise of CDPR.

From what some 'heard' says, there is a hole and it is very deep ... I have no way of knowing and, honestly, I don't care. I know that I, speak for myself, do not adapt to hate speech, much less to fallacies of 'youtubers', not even to the practices of spreading fake news ...

I deal with the facts, not least because I have no way of deciding things by CDPR, just to suggest and in a very polite and thoughtful way in its official forum.

It's simple (for me).

 

[GrimReaper801]

You can offer suggestions without complaining, speculating or otherwise being negative about the goings-on of CDPR and 2077.

This thread is not about any of that.

Furthermore, a forum is a place for discussion. That includes discussions about negative, neutral and positive things. Some of which we have great knowledge of, some of which we don't. It's a discussion between people, an exchange of ideas and personal opinion. In this specific thread, most of us are voicing and sharing our concern about something we care about. There is nothing wrong about that and if you don't want to see it... stay out of the thread?

It really doesn't have anything to do with being apathetic.

That's not why I brought up apathy to begin with.

They're seeing stability, and to them that means they see a way forward that's going to maximize their returns.

I'm forcing myself to see it positively. As long as the other investors aren't interested in the lawsuit, this isn't going forward.

 

[oumajgad]

Whole thing started because people are dumb and naive. CDPR stocks were a subject of speculative bubble. Company that doesn't produced anything except news about their new game for like 2 years had stock prices at all time high and still quickly growing. Looks weird to you already? Well, it should. At least if you pretend to be smart enough to know where to buy and sell stocks. I am not, my friends aren't. But we never did. We even talked about it some time ago that it can't be real. It's too... perfect.

But people wore pink glasses thinking that the price will go up, up, up... and never fall down. Because why would it? It's was growing all the time so it can't stop now! Well, it did, as usual post release. Same thing happened after Blood and Wine DLC. Stocks dropped, even despite the fact that it was almost flawless one.

But who cares? Lets buy stocks!!! They can only get higher! So now price dropped to more realistic value and idiots who bought them for 80-100 euros did shockedPikachu.jpg. And instead blaming their own ignorance and lack of common sense they are looking for someone to burn for it.

 

[Myajha]

From what some 'heard' says, there is a hole and it is very deep ... I have no way of knowing and, honestly, I don't care. I know that I, speak for myself, do not adapt to hate speech, much less to fallacies of 'youtubers', not even to the practices of spreading fake news ...

I deal with the facts, not least because I have no way of deciding things by CDPR, just to suggest and in a very polite and thoughtful way in its official forum.

It's simple (for me).

See I agree with you, dealing in facts is always the best way to go, and not listening to some troll on youtube that has an agenda to grind, or wants clickbait by hoping on whatever the cool, edgy current trend is. Hating CDPR and Cyberpunk is one of those cool, edgy trains.

But that doesn't mean that everything they say is fake news, a little research, and you can find out alot that backs up their claims or disproves them from first person sources, say the company or the stock prices, or quality news sources.

 

[Madae]

This thread is not about any of that.

Furthermore, a forum is a place for discussion. That includes discussions about negative, neutral and positive things. Some of which we have great knowledge of, some of which we don't. It's a discussion between people, an exchange of ideas and personal opinion. In this specific thread, most of us are voicing and sharing our concern about something we care about. There is nothing wrong about that and if you don't want to see it... stay out of the thread?

That's not why I brought up apathy to begin with.

The OP of this thread is speculating the end of CDPR, and the thread is discussing the claims of the court case, whether legit or not. It already has a negative connotation attached to it. Don't tell me what to do either.

And perhaps you should explain your cryptic use of apathy. Your comment is aggressive for no reason.

 

[Myajha]

I'm forcing myself to see it positively. As long as the other investors aren't interested in the lawsuit, this isn't going forward.

I doubt any current investor is going to be interested in the lawsuit, as it would tank stock prices, and they'd lose money on the deal, so the lawsuit is going to be past investors who are selling their stocks. From what the stocks are showing, none of the current stockholders are selling, which means they don't see a lengthy and pricey lawsuit coming to fruition anytime soon, or an out-of-court settlement that will dip into profits that hasn't already been accounted for in projections.

Now the other thing to consider is that some investors are hedging their bets, and holding onto their stocks, while feeling out the potential for the lawsuit. Risky but not totally unheard of.

 

[IskrasFemme]

See I agree with you, dealing in facts is always the best way to go, and not listening to some troll on youtube that has an agenda to grind, or wants clickbait by hoping on whatever the cool, edgy current trend is. Hating CDPR and Cyberpunk is one of those cool, edgy trains.

But that doesn't mean that everything they say is fake news, a little research, and you can find out alot that backs up their claims or disproves them from first person sources, say the company or the stock prices, or quality news sources.

According to a public report from Microsoft, the gaming industry has an annual turnover of $ 200 billion. CDPR has 200 billion reasons to save its reputation. I try to imagine what goes on in the mind of anyone who thinks about conspiracy theories, that the company, premeditatedly, would be willing to be ruined ... and I have 200 billion reasons to confront this idea.

However, something seems to be certain, the 'rush' by pressures, amazingly, of these investors who, according to some, now want to sue the company legally (?!?)

Do you understand why I don't believe this? CD is not alone in this, it is an absurdly valuable company in the market and not because it wants to, but because it built it. It has giant partners like Sony, Rockstar (Take Two) Microsoft itself, etc. In this corporate world, things are so, business, friends, apart. Of course, I think there is a lot of speculation about competitors, trade war, interests ... but that would be another debate and we would fall into the field of speculation, the 'what if' and the 'what if', anything fits, even 'giant meteors heading against planet Earth '.

 

[Der-horus]

Shit, i hope what ever the endings, that CDPR will go on and that the bosses up there who made that stupid decision and how to manage coms and crunch the devs ... instead of just giving it a year more or half a year ( and thhey did just the same toi the witcher 3 !!!!)

 

[Riven-Twain]

Moderator: Post deleted. Back on topic, please, and keep it friendly.

 

[Myajha]

Do you understand why I don't believe this? CD is not alone in this, it is an absurdly valuable company in the market and not because it wants to, but because it built it. It has giant partners like Sony, Rockstar (Take Two) Microsoft itself, etc. In this corporate world, things are so, business, friends, apart. Of course, I think there is a lot of speculation about competitors, trade war, interests ... but that would be another debate and we would fall into the field of speculation, the 'what if' and the 'what if', anything fits, even 'giant meteors heading against planet Earth '.

True, but the point you're missing here with the investors is that stocks dropped just over 40% in a couple of days. That's a lot of cash lost to any investor, a lot of cash, and if the company has to spend my dividends on fixing the game and I'm not planning on seeing a return on my investment.

So about 8 million copies were sold, that's a fact. Each game cost about 60 usd to buy, that means raw, they made about 480 million usd. Now how much that has to go into overhead, I'm have no idea, but I'm going to guess that if this was a perfect launch, they'd stand to make 150 million usd on pre-purchases alone.

Not insignificant change at all. Screw a buggy launch, the dividends on 150 million usd is damn good, even assuming they keep a good chunk of that to invest into their next game.

But investors are jumping ship, which means they're not seeing the potential for those quality dividends, or the return on their investments. Why?

Now if I was an investor, and I invested money into a company, then took a loss, a major loss, on my stocks (some sources are saying upwards of 2 billion dollars to the founders in potentials), and I'm not seeing the promise for any real return on my investments, now I have to figure out ways to minimize my own losses.

A lawsuit isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Some money returned is better the zero.

All investment is speculation, that's the problem.

Oh and CDPR doesn't and will never see 200 billion reasons. They're lucky to see a billion reasons. Not chump change in any realm, but it's not 200 billion, that's the entire market, and juggernauts like EA and Microsoft see the majority of that money.

 

[SidTheUndying]

Fact is, even if a lawsuit is announced it's meaningless. Sony has been dragged into High Court (UK), Supreme Court (USA) and whatever Canada's top court is called, multiple times in the past. Every time a settlement is offered and accepted and things continue practically unchanged.

Now this is investment not public class action so could be different. Could also easily be a bargaining chip to exert pressure.

Hopefully everyone realizes that unless they are directly involved, either as plaintiff or defendant, or representing them, then everything you hear is speculation and that only requires imagination not evidence.

 

[Fabio_Joaquim]

Lol...the inverstors already have the money back...they cant sue them...if so,cd project red will say that the investors already haver their money back...and all youtubers and stuff talk but dont understand nothing...and they are also part of the problem,but that is for another time.

 

[GrimReaper801]

True, but the point you're missing here with the investors is that stocks dropped just over 40% in a couple of days. That's a lot of cash lost to any investor, a lot of cash, and if the company has to spend my dividends on fixing the game and I'm not planning on seeing a return on my investment.

So about 8 million copies were sold, that's a fact. Each game cost about 60 usd to buy, that means raw, they made about 480 million usd. Now how much that has to go into overhead, I'm have no idea, but I'm going to guess that if this was a perfect launch, they'd stand to make 150 million usd on pre-purchases alone.

Not insignificant change at all. Screw a buggy launch, the dividends on 150 million usd is damn good, even assuming they keep a good chunk of that to invest into their next game.

But investors are jumping ship, which means they're not seeing the potential for those quality dividends, or the return on their investments. Why?

Now if I was an investor, and I invested money into a company, then took a loss, a major loss, on my stocks (some sources are saying upwards of 2 billion dollars to the founders in potentials), and I'm not seeing the promise for any real return on my investments, now I have to figure out ways to minimize my own losses.

A lawsuit isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Some money returned is better the zero.

All investment is speculation, that's the problem.

Oh and CDPR doesn't and will never see 200 billion reasons. They're lucky to see a billion reasons. Not chump change in any realm, but it's not 200 billion, that's the entire market, and juggernauts like EA and Microsoft see the majority of that money.

Slight correction, without the refund rates, it's impossible to say but the number of copies sold is somewhere between 13 and 15 millions at this point.

It doesn't change the point you're making but unless the refund figures are disastrous, which I don't think they are, I don't see the investors being irreversibly affected.

 

[IskrasFemme]

True, but the point you're missing here with the investors is that stocks dropped just over 40% in a couple of days. That's a lot of cash lost to any investor, a lot of cash, and if the company has to spend my dividends on fixing the game and I'm not planning on seeing a return on my investment.

So about 8 million copies were sold, that's a fact. Each game cost about 60 usd to buy, that means raw, they made about 480 million usd. Now how much that has to go into overhead, I'm have no idea, but I'm going to guess that if this was a perfect launch, they'd stand to make 150 million usd on pre-purchases alone.

Not insignificant change at all. Screw a buggy launch, the dividends on 150 million usd is damn good, even assuming they keep a good chunk of that to invest into their next game.

But investors are jumping ship, which means they're not seeing the potential for those quality dividends, or the return on their investments. Why?

Now if I was an investor, and I invested money into a company, then took a loss, a major loss, on my stocks (some sources are saying upwards of 2 billion dollars to the founders in potentials), and I'm not seeing the promise for any real return on my investments, now I have to figure out ways to minimize my own losses.

A lawsuit isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Some money returned is better the zero.

All investment is speculation, that's the problem.

Oh and CDPR doesn't and will never see 200 billion reasons. They're lucky to see a billion reasons. Not chump change in any realm, but it's not 200 billion, that's the entire market, and juggernauts like EA and Microsoft see the majority of that money.

The small ones, yes, understand your point and you is right, but i cant know where it go. I hope the best to everyone, that its my desire. I can only hope and do it.

 

[Myajha]

Fact is, even if a lawsuit is announced it's meaningless. Sony has been dragged into High Court (UK), Supreme Court (USA) and whatever Canada's top court is called, multiple times in the past. Every time a settlement is offered and accepted and things continue practically unchanged.

Now this is investment not public class action so could be different. Could also easily be a bargaining chip to exert pressure.

Hopefully everyone realizes that unless they are directly involved, either as plaintiff or defendant, or representing them, then everything you hear is speculation and that only requires imagination not evidence.

But it's not meaningless, even if it's worthless and won't go anywhere, it has a great amount of meaning.

Sony has so much overhead, that they can absorb any lawsuit. They write these settlements into their annual plans, knowing they'll loose a couple million here and there. It's the benefit of being a juggernaut. What we see as a ton of money, they see as change to pull out of their couches and keep moving. Sony makes 6.7 billion (with a b) usd a year.

CDPR doesn't even come close to that. A million dollar lawsuit is a huge thing if it goes through, and any settlement will have to be significant to see it go away.

But that's not the biggest reason it's not meaningless. I've said it before in this thread, but any lawsuit, even the threat of a lawsuit, can scare away potential investors. At a time when CDPR is already having trouble keeping investors onboard, this can be a significant blow to them, if they can't keep a steady flow of money going.

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

Slight correction, without the refund rates, it's impossible to say but the number of copies sold is somewhere between 13 and 15 millions at this point.

It doesn't change the point you're making but unless the refund figures are disastrous, which I don't think they are, I don't see the investors being irreversibly affected.

Thank you for the correction, and I agree, which is why I said previously I don't see enough investors coming onto the suit to make it meaningful.

The bigger impact is scaring away potential investors.