Forums
Games
Cyberpunk 2077 Thronebreaker: The Witcher Tales GWENT®: The Witcher Card Game The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings The Witcher The Witcher Adventure Game
Jobs Store Support Log in Register
Forums - CD PROJEKT RED
Menu
Forums - CD PROJEKT RED
  • Hot Topics
  • NEWS
  • GENERAL
    THE WITCHER ADVENTURE GAME
  • STORY
    THE WITCHER THE WITCHER 2 THE WITCHER 3 THE WITCHER TALES
  • GAMEPLAY
    THE WITCHER THE WITCHER 2 THE WITCHER 3 MODS (THE WITCHER) MODS (THE WITCHER 2) MODS (THE WITCHER 3)
  • TECHNICAL
    THE WITCHER THE WITCHER 2 (PC) THE WITCHER 2 (XBOX) THE WITCHER 3 (PC) THE WITCHER 3 (PLAYSTATION) THE WITCHER 3 (XBOX) THE WITCHER 3 (SWITCH)
  • COMMUNITY
    FAN ART (THE WITCHER UNIVERSE) FAN ART (CYBERPUNK UNIVERSE) OTHER GAMES
  • RED Tracker
    The Witcher Series Cyberpunk GWENT
THE WITCHER
THE WITCHER 2
THE WITCHER 3
MODS (THE WITCHER)
MODS (THE WITCHER 2)
MODS (THE WITCHER 3)
Menu

Register

Is TW3 getting downgraded for the sake of consoles?

+

Is TW3 getting downgraded for the sake of consoles?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 26.7%
  • No

    Votes: 37 41.1%
  • Don't really care. It's for the developer to decide.

    Votes: 29 32.2%

  • Total voters
    90
Status
Not open for further replies.
Prev
  • 1
  • …

    Go to page

  • 9
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 13
  • …

    Go to page

  • 26
Next
First Prev 11 of 26

Go to page

Next Last
E

ezop

Rookie
#201
Jun 20, 2014
Zanderat said:
LOL! In my book, that is the very definition of downgrading/dumbing down! :huh:
Click to expand...
I was trying to say, that consoles are not the main reason for these mechanics. It is wider audience that they are trying to attract. You could blame consoles because of the reasons I stated above. I still think that these recommended potions will appear after reading some books about the monster. Let's not stick to this potions issue too long :)
 
Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  • RED Point
Reactions: WFMS2 and gregski
T

thislsmadness

Rookie
#202
Jun 20, 2014
blackstaggshredder said:
I was trying to say, that consoles are not the main reason for these mechanics. It is wider audience that they are trying to attract. You could blame consoles because of the reasons I stated above. I still think that these recommended potions will appear after reading some books about the monster. Let's not stick to this potions issue too long :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't get why any of that is "because of consoles". If that type of stuff was needed for console success Dark Souls wouldn't be as big as it is. I really feel like terms such as "downgrade", "streamlined", and "consolized" are being way overused and misused.
 
Zanderat

Zanderat

Forum veteran
#203
Jun 20, 2014
What would you call it?
 
S

schinderhannes.999

Rookie
#204
Jun 21, 2014
blackstaggshredder said:
I was trying to say, that consoles are not the main reason for these mechanics. It is wider audience that they are trying to attract. You could blame consoles because of the reasons I stated above. I still think that these recommended potions will appear after reading some books about the monster. Let's not stick to this potions issue too long :)
Click to expand...
And you're right, it's actually that wider audience and its 'less-tedium-more-convenience-mindset' (thanks @gettis for nailing it) that's mainly responsible for the simplification (or the downgrade) of mechanics or the gameplay in general. Sadly that mindset seems to run rampant not only with the console audience but also with the PC audience nowadays as well. And it's that mindset and its widespread in the community that unfortunately contributes to a lot of developers succumbing and tailoring their games to be less tedious and more convenient at the deliberate expense of immersion and challenge.

Ever heard of that game Dragon Age II and how vastly 'different' (meaning excruciatingly worse) it was in comparison to its predecessor? A, if not THE prime example that simplifying (or downgrading) a game to cater to a wider audience (and essentially ruining it for everybody else) might actually be not a good idea.

thislsmadness said:
Yeah, I don't get why any of that is "because of consoles". If that type of stuff was needed for console success Dark Souls wouldn't be as big as it is. I really feel like terms such as "downgrade", "streamlined", and "consolized" are being way overused and misused.
Click to expand...
The Demons' Souls / Dark Souls franchise doesn't count anyway since it is (or once was in case of Dark Souls) console-exclusive and was developed with already simplified mechanics (and to an extent) simplified gameplay from the ground up.

The Witcher series of games on the other hand originated on the PC with sophisticated mechanics and fairly complex gameplay and now, in its upcoming third iteration shows undeniable first signs of, for a lot of people absurd simplification (auto-refilling potions being the most prominent case at the moment) where there doesn't need to be simplification in the first place. Not by default, at least.
 
Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#205
Jun 21, 2014
Zanderat said:
What would you call it?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure the changes are console-centric, ie; representing the limitations of gamepad or some mainstream sensibility. I am skeptical of all three potion revelations so far, but I need to see more to really judge. CDPR has a habit of oversimplifying their presentation of a game even if it has more complex stuff going on. They're really playing up how easy the game will be to get into so as to not scare off new comers.
 
T

thislsmadness

Rookie
#206
Jun 21, 2014
schinderhannes said:
The Demons' Souls / Dark Souls franchise doesn't count anyway since it is (or once was in case of Dark Souls) console-exclusive and was developed with already simplified mechanics (and to an extent) simplified gameplay from the ground up.

The Witcher series of games on the other hand originated on the PC with sophisticated mechanics and fairly complex gameplay and now, in its upcoming third iteration shows undeniable first signs of, for a lot of people absurd simplification (auto-refilling potions being the most prominent case at the moment) where there doesn't need to be simplification in the first place. Not by default, at least.
Click to expand...
Come on now, lets not get crazy. I love the Witcher games and I would argue to the death that they stand among the finest RPGs ever made. However, "Sophisticated" and "complex" are not at all how I would describe their gameplay systems -- as far as RPGs go they are fairly straight forward. I've never had to refer lean on the knowledge of the community to figure things out in a Witcher game, that is certainly not something I can say about the first time I played Demon Souls.

Alchemy in W3 is only simplified if you pretend like they have not added anything to it. Unfortunately, folks want to hyper focus on the auto-replenishing part and ignore everything else about it... because mindlessly looting herbs and brewing them in a fail safe UI is incredibly sophisticated gameplay?
 
S

schinderhannes.999

Rookie
#207
Jun 21, 2014
Incredibly sophisticated?
No, but fairly sophisticated in the sense that, compared to similar mechanics in other games there is (or was?) thankfully more to it than just resting at a bonfire and see your Estus Flask charges magically refill on its own.

Again, 'mindlessly looting herbs' and actually preparing/brewing potions yourself is a big deal for a chunk of the audience. It's small details like that contributing immensely to that thing called immersion, which, if I remember correctly is also supposed to be a big deal in The Witcher 3.

If CDPR really does feel the need to streamline certain aspects of the game, fine. They just shouldn't force it on everybody, and look for ways to make those changes optional or at least, to some extent revertable through customization.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Yeiiow and Fallout_Wanderer
G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator
#208
Jun 21, 2014
Malvus said:
Guess what? Neither was I but he decided that I was regardless and trying to make me look like the bad guy. I didn't insult anyone, and I kept it civil. I didn't flame anyone, I made clear points that were interpreted wrong. It always happens and it flips me off really badly. Especially since a mod with a hard-on decides to flip me off the boards because he can't carry an argument and he's way too "insulted" that he's just plain wrong. This is exactly why I do not like forums. Frankly, a brothel on fire wouldn't even begin to describe the amount of pointless arguments, off-topic replies to some threads here and some of those threads themselvs. Instead of the mods doing something about those they decide to get hard-ons for flinging off everyone who pisses them off on a basis of "personal attacks". Bloody perfect.
they are based on nothing and they are straight up flamebait. I'm done here, speculate and discuss all you like anyway, in the end it won't matter because you are not developing the game regardless and this is CDPR. Have fun with your usless thread.
Click to expand...
archav3n said:
@Malvus I agree participating in forum suxs because people get flamey when they disagree with you. Also, moderators are only human. They are not perfect. I've seen a moderator abusing his power on me before (which he didn't penalize the troll but given me a warning/ban instead). I had really agree moderator abusing their powers is really frustrating. This is not to say DB is abusing her power. But moderator can have an opinion but let's not being biased over their opinions. You should just chill out.
Click to expand...
Moderator: Quoted as examples of language that constitutes personal attacks within that meaning on this forum.

The following deleted text also constitutes a personal attack of the manner that shall not be repeated:

Still, you drama queens have to make a show of it and even after everything CDPR did, you have to make a deal out of it. Seriously, chill the f out,
Click to expand...
Members who engage repeatedly in making personal attacks may be suspended for the purpose of preserving decency and order on the forum.
 
T

thislsmadness

Rookie
#209
Jun 21, 2014
schinderhannes said:
Incredibly sophisticated?
No, but fairly sophisticated in the sense that, compared to similar mechanics in other games there is (or was?) thankfully more to it than just resting at a bonfire and see your Estus Flask charges magically refill on its own.
Click to expand...
What? I'm not sure how you can compare Estus Flasks to Potions in the Witcher. I can pick on Witcher mechanics out of context as well and claim they are "dumbed down" game design, it won't prove anything.

schinderhannes said:
Again, 'mindlessly looting herbs' and actually preparing/brewing potions yourself is a big deal for a chunk of the audience. It's small details like that contributing immensely to that thing called immersion, which, if I remember correctly is also supposed to be a big deal in The Witcher 3.
Click to expand...
...and there are others that think it is not at all immersive and adds noting of value to the game. That is besides the point anyway since your argument is that they ruined something "complex" by using these auto regenerating potions. If you want to argue that you don't like auto regeneration potions because it breaks immersion for you, thats fine. However, don't try and tell us that there was anything complex about the way it worked in W2. It required very little thought or skill to use.

schinderhannes said:
If CDPR really does feel the need to streamline certain aspects of the game, fine. They just shouldn't force it on everybody, and look for ways to make those changes optional or at least, to some extent revertable through customization.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, modern game design is a lot like you claim alchemy to be in W2 -- its sophisticated and complex and expensive and a lot of other hard things. CDPR doesn't have infinite resources and man power, which means that it is not feasible to create a game that pleases everyone all the time. If they had turned this into a linear 8 hour hack n slash with an antsy teenage Geralt and it felt like one big money grab, I'd be waving my pitchfork as well. That is not what this is though... The Witcher 3 is, by far, dwarfs the scale and scope of the previous games. They have absolutely streamlined a few things but maybe its because they decided to focus on something else or they added additional elements to that feature to compensate or they just plain didn't like how the previous system worked?
 
sidspyker

sidspyker

Ex-moderator
#210
Jun 21, 2014
I'd just like to remind that if anybody has 'issues' with moderation, take it up with Keth or Marcin Momot.

 
  • RED Point
Reactions: alextyc1
KingHochmeister

KingHochmeister

Forum veteran
#211
Jun 21, 2014
jspoole said:
Frankly as long as it comes to consoles thats all i care about. Arguing tech speak is for nerds
Click to expand...
But when that tech interferes with the performance and the feel of the game you are playing, then is that nerdy? :p
 
S

spacehamsterZH

Rookie
#212
Jun 21, 2014
schinderhannes said:
The Demons' Souls / Dark Souls franchise doesn't count anyway since it is (or once was in case of Dark Souls) console-exclusive and was developed with already simplified mechanics (and to an extent) simplified gameplay from the ground up.
Click to expand...
So basically, you've never played any of the Souls games. Gotcha.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Vincentdante
Sardukhar

Sardukhar

Moderator
#213
Jun 21, 2014
spacehamsterzh said:
So basically, you've never played any of the Souls games. Gotcha.
Click to expand...
I played Dark Souls. I found the gameplay, from a role-playing perspective, pretty..hey, waitaminute. What was the topic again? Oh, yeah. The idea that CDPR, who nearly broke my system with their -cursed- Ultra settings when Witcher 2 came out, would downgrade the graphics for Witcher 3.

It is to laugh. I laugh! Ahahahahahah!

No.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Fallout_Wanderer, Vincentdante, Kinley and 1 other person
S

schinderhannes.999

Rookie
#214
Jun 21, 2014
thislsmadness said:
schinderhannes said:
Incredibly sophisticated?
No, but fairly sophisticated in the sense that, compared to similar mechanics in other games there is (or was?) thankfully more to it than just resting at a bonfire and see your Estus Flask charges magically refill on its own.
Click to expand...
What? I'm not sure how you can compare Estus Flasks to Potions in the Witcher. I can pick on Witcher mechanics out of context as well and claim they are "dumbed down" game design, it won't prove anything.
Click to expand...
thislsmadness said:
schinderhannes said:
Again, 'mindlessly looting herbs' and actually preparing/brewing potions yourself is a big deal for a chunk of the audience. It's small details like that contributing immensely to that thing called immersion, which, if I remember correctly is also supposed to be a big deal in The Witcher 3.
Click to expand...
...and there are others that think it is not at all immersive and adds noting of value to the game. That is besides the point anyway since your argument is that they ruined something "complex" by using these auto regenerating potions. If you want to argue that you don't like auto regeneration potions because it breaks immersion for you, thats fine. However, don't try and tell us that there was anything complex about the way it worked in W2. It required very little thought or skill to use.
Click to expand...
With the current auto-refilling of potions in place (and how it was described by Konrad Tomaszkiewicz) it's actually working pretty much like the Estus Flask.

Resting at bonfire -> have your Estus Flask automatically recharge
Meditating -> have your potions automatically recharge

Going by the number of stages/phases required to create or prepare a potion in The Witcher or The Witcher 2, the old mechanics undoubtely are more elaborate or more complex. By how much exactly they're more sophisticated or more complex is of course a subjective matter, but this doesn't change the fact that there's simply more to those old mechanics than just Step 1: Sit down and Step 2: Recharge.

thislsmadness said:
schinderhannes said:
If CDPR really does feel the need to streamline certain aspects of the game, fine. They just shouldn't force it on everybody, and look for ways to make those changes optional or at least, to some extent revertable through customization.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, modern game design is a lot like you claim alchemy to be in W2 -- its sophisticated and complex and expensive and a lot of other hard things. CDPR doesn't have infinite resources and man power, which means that it is not feasible to create a game that pleases everyone all the time. If they had turned this into a linear 8 hour hack n slash with an antsy teenage Geralt and it felt like one big money grab, I'd be waving my pitchfork as well. That is not what this is though... The Witcher 3 is, by far, dwarfs the scale and scope of the previous games. They have absolutely streamlined a few things but maybe its because they decided to focus on something else or they added additional elements to that feature to compensate or they just plain didn't like how the previous system worked?
Click to expand...
You're probably right, however there are a couple of things to consider here:

There's still about 8 (more like 7) months of development time left and mechanics as they worked in the previous games still exist (in their respective implementations on the Aurora Engine and the first iteration of the RED Engine).

This is obviously just guesswork, but one would think that it could be possible to either

a) take the best of both potion preparation mechanics of The Witcher 1 and 2, integrate that into the game and make it available as an optional alternative to the by default streamlined mechanic

or

b) allow the by default streamlined potion preparation mechanic as it is currently in place to be modified/customized to include all the required effort of manually creating potions.

I'm no expert on game developement, but I'd imagine that to be feasible considering the time that's left and the complete(?) absence of possible side effects on balance or such things. The technical side of implementing something like this is probably a more delicate matter not to be taken lightly, but, as I said, there are still 7 months to go.

Again, a game of a much smaller scope and size like Thief 4 was shipped with a considerable amount of customizability in terms of game mechanics and overall gameplay, so why not at least take into consideration of doing something similar with The Witcher 3?


spacehamsterzh said:
schinderhannes said:
The Demons' Souls / Dark Souls franchise doesn't count anyway since it is (or once was in case of Dark Souls) console-exclusive and was developed with already simplified mechanics (and to an extent) simplified gameplay from the ground up.
Click to expand...
So basically, you've never played any of the Souls games. Gotcha.
Click to expand...
I played (or should I say, forced myself through) a bit of both the terribad PC port of the first Dark Souls and the less terribad PC port of the second one, and apart from the fairly satisfying and challenging combat mechanics (which arguably are more sophisticated than what's in place in The Witcher 1 & 2 and probably 3) both really aren't that deep or complex (imho), especially in regards to the roleplaying mechanics.

Now, The Witcher games do not necessarily excel in the 'deep' or 'complex' department either, but I consider them having an edge because (imho) there's generally more effort (others would say tedium) required. Not to mention the existence of an actual proper storyline, but that's another matter.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Yeiiow
S

spacehamsterZH

Rookie
#215
Jun 21, 2014
schinderhannes said:
I played (or should I say, forced myself through) a bit of both the terribad PC port of the first Dark Souls and the less terribad PC port of the second one, and apart from the fairly satisfying and challenging combat mechanics (which arguably are more sophisticated than what's in place in The Witcher 1 & 2 and probably 3) both really aren't that deep or complex (imho), especially in regards to the roleplaying mechanics.
Click to expand...
I was going to make some snarky comment about letting the facts get in the way of your PC elitism, but since you're making a reasonable effort to remain civil, I'll extend you the same courtesy and say this instead - if you don't see the intricacies of the leveling and weapon upgrade system and how the two interact in Dark Souls, I don't know what to tell you. The character stats and weapon upgrades in the Witcher games are extremely straightforward and simple by comparison. If you're as much of a fan of RPGs as you're making yourself out to be here, you should know that you get out of these games what you put in them, and you can play the vast majority of RPGs without having more than the most superficial understanding of their mechanics.

Anyway, I don't really want to get into a pissing contest between two of my favorite game series here, they're both awesome and I love them both dearly, it just irks me to no end when PC elitists act like complex games somehow don't exist on consoles. If we're going to bring up the Souls series, arguably the most complicated and cryptic game in that series was Demon's Souls, which has remained a console exclusive to this day.

And before you ask, I play the Witcher games on PC, and I played Dark Souls I+II on both PS3 and PC.
 
X

Xtreme-Void

Rookie
#216
Jun 21, 2014
jspoole said:
Frankly as long as it comes to consoles thats all i care about. Arguing tech speak is for nerds
Click to expand...
Yeah and as long as the game have real performance on PC, that's all I care about too.
You can have fun with the consoles version, although I won't be satisfied now, it depend on who plays it.
 
T

thislsmadness

Rookie
#217
Jun 21, 2014
schinderhannes said:
With the current auto-refilling of potions…
Click to expand...
Again, you cannot compare two different elements of two completely different games out of context like that. Those things are only the same if you want to pretend like there is nothing else surrounding them. For instance, Dark Souls bonfires are only available at fixed points, Witcher allows you to meditate anywhere... what a dumbed down experience that is, right? Witcher also lets you save anywhere? Oh my, what a simple game. I’m being flippant, but I think you see my point?

schinderhannes said:
Going by the number of stages/phases required to create or prepare a potion in The Witcher or The Witcher 2, the old mechanics undoubtely are more elaborate or more complex. By how much exactly they're more sophisticated or more complex is of course a subjective matter, but this doesn't change the fact that there's simply more to those old mechanics than just Step 1: Sit down and Step 2: Recharge.
Click to expand...
More tedious is the word I would insert in there but yes, they have streamlined the brewing of potions. Of course, when you look at the bigger picture of what has happened with Alchemy there is no way this is a reduction in complexity – in fact, it is a massive step up from W2. They’ve brought back using potions in combat and active management of toxicity from W1. Unlike W1, you’re limited to 2 combat potions and they have very short duration. They’re introducing mutagenic potions, which are like W2 potions that you will need switch and swap based on the challenges ahead – the catch is that they are highly toxic and may limit your use of in combat potions. As I mentioned about your Souls criticism, hyper focusing on a single out-of-context aspect of anything is impetuous.

schinderhannes said:
…I'm no expert on game developement, but I'd imagine that to be feasible considering the time that's left and the complete(?) absence of possible side effects on balance or such things. The technical side of implementing something like this is probably a more delicate matter not to be taken lightly, but, as I said, there are still 7 months to go.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure its that simple, I think the potential side effects are plentiful. (mostly copy+pasta from what I said in the potion thread): We know that every detail of the game's environments are handcrafted, which means that someones are gonna have to go in and manually add herbs/ingredients, and it'll have to be a ton of them since we can't have magically re spawning herbs. All these new assets that need to be rendered will have an effect on performance, so now someone has to deal with that across all 3 separate platforms and varying PC targets. Now that the player is carrying a ton of extra weight, inventory needs to be redesigned. Players will want to sell excess ingredients, so the economy must be re-balanced. Can't assume players will have the advantage of potions, so boss encounters will probably have to be tweaked. We have no idea what the current method is for attaining ingredients, what if they were mostly tied to quests and rare monsters in the world? All of that would have to be completely overhauled or thrown away. If they can do it, great! I will never complain about having more options. However, I do know that even seemingly small changes can have a very wide reaching effect on game design.

schinderhannes said:
Again, a game of a much smaller scope and size like Thief 4 was shipped with a considerable amount of customizability in terms of game mechanics and overall gameplay…
Click to expand...
A smaller game can afford to offer that degree of customization because of its smallness.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Sneky
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#218
Jun 22, 2014
Please don't let this get sidetracked into another Potions thread - it's fair enough to bring it up as an example, if you think it strengthens your views, but there's already a long, long thread for detailed discussion.
 
S

Scholdarr

Banned
#219
Jun 22, 2014
Perhaps we should first properly define the term "downgraded" since I think people have different impressions about what is connected and implicated with it... ;)
 
ReptilePZ

ReptilePZ

Wordrunner
#220
Jun 22, 2014
Well, the OP is only asking about the graphical fidelity:

Where the developers purposely downgrade the PC version so that the consoles don't look as awful?
Click to expand...
So that's what the topic is about: visual downgrade. My view on it is that the PC version already looks markedly better and, based on CDPR's previous works, I see no reason to believe that the game's visuals on PC will be somehow compromised prior to release. In fact, I expect that they will be improved further.
 
Prev
  • 1
  • …

    Go to page

  • 9
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 13
  • …

    Go to page

  • 26
Next
First Prev 11 of 26

Go to page

Next Last
Status
Not open for further replies.
Share:
Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email Link
  • English
    English Polski (Polish) Deutsch (German) Русский (Russian) Français (French) Português brasileiro (Brazilian Portuguese) Italiano (Italian) 日本語 (Japanese) Español (Spanish)

STAY CONNECTED

Facebook Twitter YouTube
CDProjekt RED Mature 17+
  • Contact administration
  • User agreement
  • Privacy policy
  • Cookie policy
  • Press Center
© 2018 CD PROJEKT S.A. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

The Witcher® is a trademark of CD PROJEKT S. A. The Witcher game © CD PROJEKT S. A. All rights reserved. The Witcher game is based on the prose of Andrzej Sapkowski. All other copyrights and trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Forum software by XenForo® © 2010-2020 XenForo Ltd.