All that changes in relation to Arasaka as per the various endings, is the potential state of the company post Nocturne OP55N1.
If you go with the devil ending, Suburo takes over his sons body and the company is in general the same state as it was at the start of the game
If you go with any of the other ending paths [other than straight up suicide] Arasaka tower has taken a beaten and the company has taken some big reputational damage in North America. However, it still exists, it could recover, potentially maybe change it name in the future to spin some positive PR. The company's position in other countries may or may not be affected.
ts inferred through some side quests that Arasaka may be spoiling for another war, that position likely hasn't changed regardless of what ending path you take.
If i compare how Geralt affects the world in witcher 3 Vs how V affects the world in cyberpunk; Geralt is directly involved in deciding the fate of humanity and the player has a choice over the fate of Geralt and Ciri. In comparison, V annoys a corporation or cuts a deal with a corporation, then dies.
Mmm,i think that you don't understand the role of a Corporation in a cyberpunk setting
Ps:you forget a little detail about immortality also
-its incorrect that role playing games are about effecting the world. Role playing is about playing a role. If you play an rpg about falling in love, I doubt the world as a whole is supposed to drastically change. If you meant "world" like just stuff, then sure.
- V and almost everyone else in NC is going to die eventually. Many of them will be dead within a year. Out of the mercs, that number is even higher. V died within 6 months of becoming a merc, Jackie? probably lasted 2-3 years total. V almost dies in each opening, actually dies in the heist, was supposed to die within 2-3 weeks, ends up with 6 month countdown. V's future always was, and still is uncertain. V has always been playing the long odds. And let's be honest, V's story is interesting because of this. If V wasn't actively trying to avoid death, their story would be solved.
1) V is a successful fixer, who no longer takes jobs, and their only real goal is accumulating wealth
2)V is a nomad trying to live through sandstorms, hanging with the fam, and avoid death due to starvation, or environmental disaster
3)V gets their job at arasaka back, and can go back to throwing up in the bathroom and attending board meetings, and generally being an ahole
Its a story, the fact that Vs future is uncertain, and V will have to do something extraordinary to survive is the driving force. In order to not have that as the driving force, they'd need a new motivation, but since V as a character is mostly determined be the player, these motivations can't drive the universal part of the story. The MQ is the Universal part that all versions of V interact with. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the most important.
In fact the game suggests, that if you live your life only focused on prolonging it, it will be less satisfying. And also, that goal is always elusive, and you will always have to keep fighting to survive. There is no ending which leads to a future where V won't have to struggle to live. So is the game saying life is pointless because you death is always coming?
No, V says they value every moment they have to Johnny. V's actions determine what mattered to them in addition to survival, Friends, family, fame, adventure, love, knowledge, changing the world. Its up to the player to decide who V really is, and what is the reason they keep defying death. Thats the part that how you play the game, and the choices in it effect. The game focuses its choices on playing the role of V.
This isn't a game like the witcher, where the main goal is to see/determines what happens to geralt. The main point of the game is figuring out what type of person V is. Whats the meaning of V's life/existence is the theme. Unfortunately because its a videogame, of limited scope they can't fully explore V, and at times you end up having to pick the closest box in the narratives.
Yes its about playing a role. However, in general stories and games where the role you are playing is broadly; an average joe/Jane just trying to survive in broadly life like circumstances or a story about a journey of self discovery. Well frankly they generally suck and leave the player feeling like they just wasted their time bothering to play the story. It also limits the players desire to replay or bother with additional content. The most compelling stories and most endearing and interesting main playable characters are generally special in some way, have an integral and impactful role in the story and often live to fight another day. At least the choices the player makes, have some impact on the game world or the main antagonists within in it and have the choice as to what they want to happen to main character.
If the purpose of the plot is the meaning of V's life and existence, then from the story we have in front of us, V's existence is pointless and for me that's not particularly interesting. Not that I don't find V interesting or dislike V, quite the opposite. I'd like to explore their story and character more and that what is particularly 'too depressing' about the current story arch, that Vs purpose, worth and existence is brought to an abrupt end. It also makes the 'different' end paths, feel more linear, the circumstances are slightly different but V's end is essentially fixed;
V either dies now through suicide, dies now giving up their body or its inferred will die in a relatively short period of time (5-6 months, even less if you wasted your time with the devil ending on araskas space station)
We don't know for certain the absolute conclusion of Vs story, unless we first know which of the ending paths is cannon. In any case, even if the most optimistic path is cannon (none of which are particularly optimistic),
then V needs to find some genius in the next 5/6 months to do what none of araskas resources could do and find him/her a cure.
I mean yeah if the intention is that V is planed to be a disposable character, because future content will focus on another character, then job done with this fatalistic plot. If there are any plans to introduce additional content/DLC that is focused on V / Jackie/ Johnny etc etc that is pre- end game, then thats going to be a tough sell with a lot of players, because you've just conditioned us to not give a rats about all these disposable characters, whos lives didnt matter.
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I think 'terrorist' is araska's intrepetation of Johnny Silverhand, I prefer to think on him as a freedom fighter.Right, but like said AikoHayashi. Do you really want help a terorist who kill millions of innocent people just for save alt ? If you play no-kill, i don't thing so
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I think that one of the problems is that fantasy settings(d&d,witcher,baldur's, also a space opera like Star Wars) is that by world setting is easy to be "good/evil" and write a story that allows players to be "hero"/"villain" of the world and save/destroy the world.
In more "realistic" settings(i know,is not that realistic) like cyberpunk you cannot do that story trick easily so you cannot get world changes that fit the player wishes(and cyberpunk is worst than others,because good/bad is a blurred definition).
The "depressing" part about V fate,is very subjective ( i mean people get diagnosed cancer everyday in your town,nobody celebrates the funeral that day) but is quite in-line with the cyberpunk genre in general (including not knowing the fate of the protagonist-im looking at you Gibson,2 novels to know what happened to Case after Neuromancer and just 3 lines about him in the 3rd book-)...maybe i can think a couple of stories with positive and closed outcome in the traditional sense and was more,"ok we are where we started after all this mess".
I think the story is one of the best ever created in any open world game, especially for first iteration of the series.
I definitely didn't feel sad how the game ended, you were made well aware in ahead of time that your brain is not going to survive the virus, and that there's no cure to any of this, the process has already started and nanobots have invaded your brain.
I think there's a lot of room for the sequel or expansion to go where you were left off if you chose Johnny to take over your body, your mind being uploaded to cyberspace and being able to live forever.
Maybe it's just because I'm not that spiritual person myself and I don't see much value in maintaining physical body as some others might do. We all die, every day and every second, but the brain reconstructs as the physical properties keep it together from falling apart. When we wake up next day we are not the same person we were yesterday... well we kinda are... but the atoms may have switched places in your brain, new information might have written something you used to know and so on. We live on a constant change and in some way the V's engram which was copied is more real version of the V than what we would get to experience in years after.
Of course same problem goes for code as well. If you had a perfect clone of yourself uploaded, there might be copying errors, your virtual self would be able to forget or learn information and overwrite itself, just like Alt Cunningham said, she's no longer the woman who was uploaded in the first place, she's entirely new entity.
I'm curious how will CDPR handle the future expansions that hopefully are going to deal with whatever happens after the events, giving more ability to have dialogues with Johnny either by being in control or giving up the control to Johnny.
If they can't no longer afford Keanu they could make it that the V gets now to act like Johnny by using V's own voice, while still claiming to be Johnny.
In some way I guess maybe this is not how it's going to happen because you already got the ending cutscenes with people basically saying goodbyes... but of course that whole sequence could be rewritten in certain endings and taken out, giving more room to explore the city and meet people like Victor who probably has a lot to ask about how it all came down.
I didn't find it depressing but it did bring up the pain water throughout. I connected so easily to the character as we have some strong parallels.
I would have actually made it way darker, I would have put V in some tougher scenarios that would make or break a human. They went pretty dark in some aspects but it all still feels relatively grounded. The significant standout trauma points for me are things that happen everyday and happen everywhere but aren't as normal per person.. IE, everyone will face loss of something around them and of themselves... But not everyone will witness & have a first hand account of something like that farm scenario.. Or something like with that religious scenario... Or losing your buddy in combat... Stuff like that stands out...
When I think of other games I enjoy, with Mafia 2 I think about the Henry scene in the park.. With Saints Row 2, I think about that scene in the cemetery after the funeral was disrupted.. With Sleeping Dogs, I think about the Wedding & I believe it was another cemetery scenario.. With GTAV, I think about the suspected terrorist scenario, even Trevor was hesitant and uncomfortable with what he was doing...
I don't particularly like emotions, but I resonate with the very human reality of pain & suffering, these types of things make games great to me whereas a lot of people who might not have the same type of life experiences I have had, it may be too much for them. I love seeing an authenticity that is alien to most people, when done correctly.. When you can do it in a way where it isn't just gratuitous violence & suffering, but are actually furthering both the story & character development...
In Act 2, after playing through Judy, River & Panam.. I wanted to jump through the screen and take care of business for V, it felt personal... After the heist, I wanted to do everything I could to make the best possible decisions because there wasn't a lot of time left. V died after the heist, shot in the head and dumped in the landfill like garbage. We know there's no encore without the Relic..
I hope V's story isn't over yet. I hope for that 6 month montage.. And maybe there's a shot at saving the life, brain, memories, etc... I mean there's like a billion different things they could do, so I hope they do something. Because not every character is one I can connect with.
I've also pondered the concept of playing a different character in this world with the task of recovering or saving V in some way.. and then returning to V and doing whatever with the new character..
To end on my initial point, I would have taken it about 75%-80% further in terms of the suffering that V is dealt; physically, mentally & emotionally.. V does a lot of things to a lot of dangerous & twisted individuals, for someone who moves about as a solo, realistically V wouldn't be roaming about NC so safely... I would put V in some very destructive life altering scenarios and I would push the friendships and relationships further.. V might need some saving some time and V's people might need some saving..
However, going this route would require more potential happy endings and an actual chance of V surviving post story. Or at the very least a more living world with fun activities to do with V's friends, otherwise you would just be stacking negative emotions with no redemption of joy and that wouldn't work. For how everything is, what they presented was as close to perfect as you can get.
I would have actually made it way darker, I would have put V in some tougher scenarios that would make or break a human. They went pretty dark in some aspects but it all still feels relatively grounded. The significant standout trauma points for me are things that happen everyday and happen everywhere but aren't as normal per person.. IE, everyone will face loss of something around them and of themselves... But not everyone will witness & have a first hand account of something like that farm scenario.. Or something like with that religious scenario... Or losing your buddy in combat... Stuff like that stands out...
When I think of other games I enjoy, with Mafia 2 I think about the Henry scene in the park.. With Saints Row 2, I think about that scene in the cemetery after the funeral was disrupted.. With Sleeping Dogs, I think about the Wedding & I believe it was another cemetery scenario.. With GTAV, I think about the suspected terrorist scenario, even Trevor was hesitant and uncomfortable with what he was doing...
I don't particularly like emotions, but I resonate with the very human reality of pain & suffering, these types of things make games great to me whereas a lot of people who might not have the same type of life experiences I have had, it may be too much for them. I love seeing an authenticity that is alien to most people, when done correctly.. When you can do it in a way where it isn't just gratuitous violence & suffering, but are actually furthering both the story & character development...
In Act 2, after playing through Judy, River & Panam.. I wanted to jump through the screen and take care of business for V, it felt personal... After the heist, I wanted to do everything I could to make the best possible decisions because there wasn't a lot of time left. V died after the heist, shot in the head and dumped in the landfill like garbage. We know there's no encore without the Relic..
I hope V's story isn't over yet. I hope for that 6 month montage.. And maybe there's a shot at saving the life, brain, memories, etc... I mean there's like a billion different things they could do, so I hope they do something. Because not every character is one I can connect with.
I've also pondered the concept of playing a different character in this world with the task of recovering or saving V in some way.. and then returning to V and doing whatever with the new character..
To end on my initial point, I would have taken it about 75%-80% further in terms of the suffering that V is dealt; physically, mentally & emotionally.. V does a lot of things to a lot of dangerous & twisted individuals, for someone who moves about as a solo, realistically V wouldn't be roaming about NC so safely... I would put V in some very destructive life altering scenarios and I would push the friendships and relationships further.. V might need some saving some time and V's people might need some saving..
However, going this route would require more potential happy endings and an actual chance of V surviving post story. Or at the very least a more living world with fun activities to do with V's friends, otherwise you would just be stacking negative emotions with no redemption of joy and that wouldn't work. For how everything is, what they presented was as close to perfect as you can get.
I would challenge that best stories need a super entity,
but let's be honest, V is extraordinary, no matter how you slice it he is currently the fulcrum in immortality technology, corporate NC politics, and the balance of power in the streets/badlands. He also has survived death when anyone else would be dead. That said, yes, things don't go perfectly for them.
V's purpose for living is something each player is supposed to identify, so my question to you, is what did you want the purpose of V's life to be, (what purpose would you give him/her)?
As far as V needing to find a genius to do what arasaka couldn't, thats actually something he has already done. Before V hellman had never succeeded, and Hellman's professional opinion was supposedly that V would die in weeks. Also, Hellman didnt really say it was impossible to save V(in the devil ending), he said it would be difficult right now, and that V didnt have the resources to push the envelope, like saburo.
essentially V is as, or more likely to survive the 6 months as they were the 2-3 weeks.
Also I question the idea that the time of your death determines the value of your life, or its purpose. But yeah, thats just my opinion
Well I dont particularly identify with V very much at all. For one I wouldn't have put the relic in my head, told Evelyn Parker to go get screwed at clouds and for two I would of shot Dex's body guard and Dex in the head before I even entered the room, thats if I would have even took the job in the first place, Dex was off for me from the start. Then the whole proceeding story would never have happened. V would have gone back to taking merc contracts, maybe becoming a living legend of the city, maybe would have met Panam and left with the nomads. I feel this is the issue I have with the story as well, there are too many fixed points were we are railroaded down a line we have no choice over, V feels like a vessel to tell the Johnny Silverhand story. I like both characters and Jackie and ultimately overly bummed they just have these depressing ends.
I just dont agree with having too many fixed outcomes in RPGs and I find fatalistic plots too depressing to fully enjoy. I tend to find that 'fatalistic' writers are often lazy with their endings, it tends to be the case that their endings are illogical, sloppy and have too much ambiguity, feels like their excuse for 'I cant think of a good way to end this depression, oh I know i'll kill them off but leave it ambiguous'. Its the main reason I don't particularly feel that Sapkowski's ending to the witcher novels was adequate nor particularly well written, it was frankly illogical and sloppy. Eternal thanks for the wonduflly well written charaters you gave us and all but ending report is; must try harder. I feel like its similar here with V, Jackie et al, theres some good character writing, but most are killed off before we can even explore their story further. Maybe thats the intention because future content will not center on them, who knows.
Well, it only goes as far as a game can go and still have a narrative. Ultimately its not as free as TTRPG where you can do anything at any time.
interesting, you would kill your fixer... because he was there? I could see never letting your guard down, but killing them for existing would be a pretty bad strategy in case they aren't trying to kill you, considering fixers have all the connections a possible escaping criminal might need.
Really not sure why dex thought killing V would increase his chance of survival. It wasn't even for the relic.
Well Im not sure I would have even taken the Job from Dex in the first place, just from what I learned about him pre heist, I thought he was shady and out to use disposable assets. We get to know Dex never works with the same crew, he keeps changing, this is werid for a fixer. In that line of work, you'd gather you wanted to work with mercs you knew were reliable etc. So I'd of personally walked and took jobs from other fixers. If i'd gone as far as doing the heist, then by the time Jackie had died, I would of gone in there with the intention of zero'ing Dex for the cluster fuck he put me through. No body seems to have a very high opinion of Dex from conversations you have in the afterlife, dont think anyone would particularly care if a merc took him out, it seems like he had to go to ground for years prior anyway for something shady or backstabbing he did.
I guess Dex's thought process was he could present Vs body to arasaka and they'd let him off the hook for being a good boy, it didn't work out well.
There is a Dino gig,where you are hired for the same reason...kill a merc that screw up an operation so he can offer his head to Biotechnica(not very nice to ask a merc to kill another merc because a job didn't go as planned)...not all fixers are the same,not all fixers work with fixed crews...but fixers is just the middle man,like your local car vendor that you have to go to because you cannot buy directly from factory.
But nobody will hire you if you don't go through a fixer(most clients want to remain anonymous) you can do only 1 deal in-game without a fixer in the Afterlife and no-fixer will hire you if you kill another fixer.
I'm not so sure the other fixers really care about Dex, he seems to be somewhat of an outcast among other fixers, also fixers dont seem to be in sort of fraternity, who watch each others backs, they respect each others geographical boundaries, but that's about it.
you can reveal to Wakado as part of the main quest line that you and Takumura killed Dex. Wakado doesn't care, she only responds 'is that a threat'
I know the gig you mean,
I usually let the merc go and convince him to just leave night city. I dont take him out because he essentially has a contract on his head for going loud on a job. Which is exactly what I do anyway, so it seemed hypocritical to zero him. Plus in that job if you convince the merc to leave, Dino isnt bother by this, he seems quite chirpy that you managed to talk him to walk and not come back, as oppose to just executing the merc.
I think dex was a well known fixer, then something happened few people know about, but find questionable. No one gives you the deets, but he isn't seen as a pariah, he still seems to be generally respected and well connected.
It may have been a gig like V's where only he lived, and had to go in hiding, but the player never finds out if he was really shady or not.(though we can guess that when the going got tough, he screwed his team based on the heist)
As far as Arasaka, i think they'd probably be madder at you for killing a suspect they probably wanted to capture and torture for information, and would probably think you are hiding something. I could see less loose ends, but you know they are going to come looking, and Dex has nothing to offer if everyone is dead. Maybe there were no good options tho
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actually, you are both kind of right, no one shed big tears over Dex, however rogue makes it clear the merc community generally doesn't trust you. Fixers are willing to deal with you, but who knows if they are only giving you the disposable jobs. Apparently mercs generally work in teams, but V is solo after. Rogue pairs you with Panam because most likely no one wants to work with her. Not sure if its her attitude, or some aversion to nomads. But the only partner rogue could get her was a raffen, gotta be a reason for that.
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I'm cool with that for my V anyway, I tend to play a solo loud style. I prefer the notion that V is a dangerous lone wolf, dont particularly want to work in a team of mercs. Majority of night city merc legends were solos. Also at that stage your 'street cred' at least for the purposes of the main quest line is still 'low' so it figures fixers arnt going to give you the tip top jobs yet.
Which is why Dex was so off, the likes of Rogue like to get to know the mercs she uses more first and then would use them frequently if they were reliable and good. Dex is just looking for some ambitious greenhorns that he can use and abuse.
This I mostly agree,Dex its just using ambitious Jackie and V...and for Jackie after long time attempting is the only door open to the 1st division.For V,well yes it rail-roads you with Jackie(is the purpose of Jackie character at the end,so not surprisingly he has the fate that he has).