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Isengrim Faoilitiarna vs Sweers in how they function

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kryton24

User
#1
Sweers gains +1 damage every time you reveal an enemy until he is played off of the battlefield (graveyard). He stacks up these "charges" if you will while he is in your deck or in hand.

Isengrim does not gain +1 boost anytime you play an elf, unlike what the description would lead you to believe. Only if you play an elf while Isengrim himself is on the battlefield. Shouldn't Isengrim be able to gain +1 boost every time you play an elf regardless if he is on the battlefield? (aka, when in hand or in your deck). This would make the card much more usable + makes it sound like it should function like this as is.

At the very least, if he is to never actually perform this valiantly (aka to make a deck revolve around him like Sweers does) can the description be updated perhaps to inform you he needs to be on the battlefield first to trigger this ability?.. perhaps lower his Provision cost as well as he is currently a 9 provision with 4 static power whereas Sweers is 9 provision too with 4 static power but with enormous power potential?
 

jgolden234

User
#2
I like the way you think, but it seems cdpr's favorite thing to do is slam SC with the nerf hammer, so isengrim will remain inferior. Eithne control was ridiculous, but I don't understand why the boosting side isn't receiving an upgrade. Your suggestion would be an excellent start.
 

kryton24

User
#3
Yeah Eithne and artifacts / control was full blown in it's own tier but nerfing down many of the damage elves and low provision cost units make little sense to me too. Hurts ST all around. I hope the devs come back to look at ST soon and consider they took it a step too far with how costly provisions are now for them / how effective ST units overall are now vs other decks. At any rate... please nerf Monster provision costs or power if ST isn't going to be tweaked further.

In the 27 games of ranked so far I have played, since this patch dropped, I have seen only one other ST deck. Almost every match has been Monster with a trickling or so of the others. Only fought one NR deck so far trying Draug but it didn't work very well.
 
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4RM3D

Moderator
#4
Sweers may be too strong, but, nonetheless, your comparison between him and Isengrim is flawed. Different faction means different synergies. A card in one faction can be weak, while it can be too strong in another. As such, its power level should be adjusted according to the faction.
 

kryton24

User
#5
Sweers may be too strong, but, nonetheless, your comparison between him and Isengrim is flawed. Different faction means different synergies. A card in one faction can be weak, while it can be too strong in another. As such, its power level should be adjusted according to the faction.
I think we are on the same page, I didn't mean to suggest he should be identical (per what you mentioned as to faction specific power) but that his power should surely rise in some form due to his provision and how he functions.
 
#6
Short answer, no. Isengrim would be broken overpowered if he gained +1 even while in the deck or hand from elf card plays. He's actually a very powerful card if you can keep elves on the board. Easier said then done, I know. He's still a good card. I know he doesn't get featured in control and elf buff based decks are hard to pilot because, well, elves seemingly get stuck with 1-3 point bodies. He is still a powerful card and, even though he doesn't see a lot of play in control, can work well there too.

If Isengrim worked as you suggested you now have hand-buff and board buff rolled into a single card. He'd basically be a non-immune Milva with a larger body and way more versatility, not to mention more value potential. If I were to play 8 elves I've just gained 8 pts on Isengrim, plus his 4 body, for 9 provisions. If any of those remain on the board when he is played add +1 for each. Further add +1 for each played after he hits the board. The other player must have an answer, probably a reset or removal. Otherwise they're flat out screwed. Too much value, particularly if he could then be used as a large finisher due to hand-buff.

As 4RM3D pointed out it's not a fair comparison. Sweers and Isengrim aren't comparable. At least not in a vacuum.

Just as an edit, when did he get made to be 9 provisions? Thought he was 11.... Mental note, put Isengrim in all my ST decks cause that's ridiculous :).
 
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Shabman

User
#7
I think the actual difference is that one card has damage while the other has body. Which is to say Sweers can brick, while Isengrim can't. Because boosted points are cash points, whereas damage is only potential points.

You can have Sweers all the way up to 17 damage, but if the highest unit your enemy has is 6 points, that's 11 points of value you're forced to waste. Whereas getting Isengrim up to 17 in hand would be guaranteed to put 17 points on the board. I'm using 17 as an example, not sure you can play elves 17 times.
 

kryton24

User
#8
I think the actual difference is that one card has damage while the other has body. Which is to say Sweers can brick, while Isengrim can't. Because boosted points are cash points, whereas damage is only potential points.

You can have Sweers all the way up to 17 damage, but if the highest unit your enemy has is 6 points, that's 11 points of value you're forced to waste. Whereas getting Isengrim up to 17 in hand would be guaranteed to put 17 points on the board. I'm using 17 as an example, not sure you can play elves 17 times.
I mean, doesn't this mean Sweers is always worth more since it can kill generally one unit unless its super beefed? Isengrim can only work if you got units out or if he doesn't die immediately once played. This means Sweers cannot brick like you claim as he will always hit something before death unless gets hit by a pitfall trap.

Either which way, Isengrim could use a slight change. Buff his power potential or lower provision cost is all I'm proposing. He doesn't need every single elf played to be counting for him I was just making an example that his card description isn't accurate.
 

imSkry

User
#9
while isengrim might be a bit underpowered at the moment, that is mainly because elf decks have only neophyte and aelirenn from what i recall to put more elves on the battlefield, i think CDPR is avoiding making some cards viable at the moment because of future expansions, we might get other swarm elf cards in the future and at that point isengrim might be considered broken, while now if you play a full on elf deck you'll probably break even even if your opponent tries to play around him by killing your units.