Isengrim Outlaw vs Faoiltiarna

[rrc]

Isengrim Outlaw vs Faoiltiarna

I am just curious to know and understand the logic behind people using Outlaw more than IF. Outlaw is used around 35% of the decks and IF is used around 13% of the decks.

On the face value IF seems more point swing than Outlaw. He can be a 21 points play (7+14 with that silver ambush). Outlaw on the other hand can play a silver special card or a Silver Elf neither IMHO seems to be more power/point pulling than IF.

What am I missing here? (I have neither and nor even the 14 points ambush guy. Just being curious. I play Francesca)

 

[Khreygond]

I guess outlaw is a good way to play any special card from your deck. However he is really weak. He can rarely make a point swing greater than 17 - 18. When Commander's Horn was worth 20 points, he was a fine choice but really, now, not so much. You need to play a relply good scorch for him to be worth it.

 

[styape]

The most played ambush unit is Toruviel (played 16% of the decks according to gwentdb, the other ambush units are below 10%), so people are not really playing ambush cards.

Isengrim: Outlaw can pull the special card you need at the moment from your deck. If you pull Scorch with it, it can be a 24 point gold (or more) easily. If all your special cards is in your hand, you can still create an elf, so it's much more versatile than Faoiltiarna.

 

[rrc]

I guess outlaw is a good way to play any special card from your deck. However he is really weak. He can rarely make a point swing greater than 17 - 18. When Commander's Horn was worth 20 points, he was a fine choice but really, now, not so much. You need to play a relply good scorch for him to be worth it.

So, basically he is much weaker for a Gold card with only 2 points. Vesemir can do the same thing and he has 5 points (He can create a silver unit with a runestone). Outlaw IMHO is very weak for a Gold and may fit with Eithne as she will tend to have a lot of special cards. But in that case Ithlinne is a better choice, isn't it? (I don't have any of these cards, but I am just trying to understand).

The most played ambush unit is Toruviel (played 16% of the decks according to gwentdb, the other ambush units are below 10%), so people are not really playing ambush cards.

Isengrim: Outlaw can pull the special card you need at the moment from your deck. If you pull Scorch with it, it can be a 24 point gold (or more) easily. If all your special cards is in your hand, you can still create an elf, so it's much more versatile than Faoiltiarna.

24 is too optimistic If Scorch is the key point, it is better to have Schirru right? You can save a silver card slot and he has +2 points. If you want to use any silver special card, Vesemir can be used and he is +3 points. What I am saying is Outlaw seems much weaker for a Gold card and 1/3rd of the people use him. I am still not convinced as to why.

 

[Void_Singer]

vesemir is only alchemy cards. The key is that IO is an open grab for a special, and an emergency create (for instance Ida). it's a trade of raw points for extra flexibility.

 

[DeniedPancake79]

I used both and must say that Outlaw won with me 100% Generally ambush Scoiatael is pretty much dead at the moment. Many times especially in the first round when used Isengrim and Morenn opponent would just pass I would have to either draw an extra card or pass and lose the round... or my fav- when using Vrihedd officer the ambush card would just pull out my ambush card anyway. So overall the card can be useless. With outlaw you have WAAAY more possibilities.

 

[styape]

24 is too optimistic If Scorch is the key point, it is better to have Schirru right?

Yeah, maybe I should scratch the "easily" part of my previous comment but it's doable. If you want just a Scorch Schirrú is better yes.

According to the latest meta report Outlaw is the most included gold in Eithné decks.
And Faoiltiarna is in the top 4 in Francesca decks.

If ambush would be a good archetype, maybe Faoiltiarna would see more play. I think it comes down to this.

 

[Khreygond]

So, basically he is much weaker for a Gold card with only 2 points. Vesemir can do the same thing and he has 5 points (He can create a silver unit with a runestone). Outlaw IMHO is very weak for a Gold and may fit with Eithne as she will tend to have a lot of special cards. But in that case Ithlinne is a better choice, isn't it? (I don't have any of these cards, but I am just trying to understand).

Agreed. It's a very flexible card that will practically never be dead though. Like, for example, Ciri: Nova is a 22 point card when you have 2 bronze copies of everything in your starting deck but only 1 point if you don't. I am not saying anyone plays her like that but focus on the highest and lowest point swing she can make. Highest is 22, lowest is 1. Obviously there is also the factor of how easily you can reach the highest or close to it, and how much commitment you will need. With Ciri: Nova, it will always reach the highest if you hit the amount of commitment necessary.

Isengrim: Outlaw's nominal highest (meaning, with most special cards) is about 17 - 18 but also, his lowest is about 16 (2 + a silver elf or a weaker special card). He needs a lot lesser commitment to not be dead, or subpar as he will always give you value. Some golds sacrifice raw power for consistency or flexibility, just like Void_Singer said.

Tibor is the opposite. It's 25 points but very inconsistent and nigh impossible to reach the highest value it can provide for example. That's why he is virtually never played. Add in the ease with which you can counter him and you can see why that's the case.

As for Eithne, no, not really, it's usually best to just take them both . I have a spell'tael deck for casual matches and I use both Isengrim: Outlaw and Ithlinne, along Triss: TK and Aglais. Ithlinne is a better option pointwise, but Outlaw is a more flexible option. If your deck is filled to the brim with special cards and control options (Mandrake, Artefact compression, Nature's Gift), Ithlinne won't help in playing those silvers when you need them to counter something fast (like Imlerith: Sabbath) Outlaw will.

 

[Barracuda88]

Since I refuse to use the Cleaver cheese combo, I play I:F ambush package in my Swordmaster, Mulligan and Shupe decks instead. Ambush is tricky, but you can make it work really well.

Outlaw, on the other hand, goes into Spell/Control decks.

 

[rrc]

Based on all the inputs, I crafted Isengrim Outlaw. Now I understand the flexibility point of view. He doesn't list a couple of random special cards, but he lists all that is available in deck to choose one. That is pretty cool. Thanks guys. If at all ambush gets some value, then I can consider crafting I:F.