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Isle Oof Avallach Question *Spoilers*

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S

secondchildren

Forum veteran
#21
Apr 16, 2013
Ah yes, now I remember Cynthia saying it.

Regarding the journal: I've always had the feeling it is most likely what "Geralt learns" or what "Geralt realizes" to be written in the journal. Like that part about choosing Triss and the rose of remembrance thing.

How they made Yen escape\go out the Island, if only Ciri and the Wild Hunt could travel across the worlds? I am really thinking there might be the hand of Ciri.
 
K

Kallelinski

Forum veteran
#22
Apr 16, 2013
If the elves in the Witcher world already differ between those who live with the humans and those who doesn't, why should they care for them at all?

Those ones at the Blue Mountains maybe, but the rest? I wouldn't count on that.
 
B

Blothulfur

Mentor
#23
Apr 16, 2013
Then why stop at all?
 
K

Kallelinski

Forum veteran
#24
Apr 16, 2013
Well, how should we know? Maybe one of them had elder blood and they wanted his corpse/soul?
 
B

Blothulfur

Mentor
#25
Apr 16, 2013
Meat long gone, no flesh to harvest.

Edit: Mind you they can probably use a scraping of bone and maybe some marrow for DNA analysis, so that might be a possibility.
 
A

arkblazer

Rookie
#26
Apr 16, 2013
Ive had the crazy crackpot theory that geralt has ancient blood in him and that ciri is actually his mother. thats why he managed to slip through dimensions unconsciously like ciri. i doubt that ciri had a hand in moving him through the dimensions because if she did then why didnt she stay with him and help him find yennefer?

another think id like you to notice is that the last magical upgrade that geralt can obtain in witcher 2, his ultimate magical attack, allows him to slow down time. Now if i'm not mistaken time manipulation is very rare, something only ppl with ancient blood can only do.
 
A

Avais

Forum regular
#27
Apr 16, 2013
guipit said:
Good question OP

There was a passing unicorn and Geralt was like "hey can I hitch a ride man.." and the unicorn was like "sure man,let's go" and they went through a portal and that was it.

that or maybe one of Riders he slain left his magic horse and he used that.
Click to expand...
LOL, I actually think this is a good explanation, forgot that unicorns can travel through space and they are enemies of the Aen Elle so they have motivation to help Geralt stop the wild hunt from getting Ciri (thats what we think the Wild Hunt want). So one of the unicorns that helps Ciri transport Geralt to Avallach might just help geralt get off.

guipit said:
Am I not getting something, we knew he was a rider of the Dearg Rhudri before Cynthia was introduced to the game, it was stated clearly enough in the last memory with Letho. Eredin's not taking him for tea, crumpets and a tour around the gardens.
Click to expand...
Well when I went on Roche's path I only got the Letho memory scene, and what I took from that was that Geralt was a prisoner like Yennefer. I expect others thought the same too ;)

guipit said:
Ive had the crazy crackpot theory that geralt has ancient blood in him and that ciri is actually his mother. thats why he managed to slip through dimensions unconsciously like ciri. i doubt that ciri had a hand in moving him through the dimensions because if she did then why didnt she stay with him and help him find yennefer?

another think id like you to notice is that the last magical upgrade that geralt can obtain in witcher 2, his ultimate magical attack, allows him to slow down time. Now if i'm not mistaken time manipulation is very rare, something only ppl with ancient blood can only do.
Click to expand...
Yeh I think I might've read your theory lol and I don't know about that, but I think the heliotrope is just a new sign introduced to the game that witchers can use to slow a certain area down, also from the books heliotrope is a protective sign like quen, purely a gameplay mechanic.

Cheers for the replies :)
 
K

Kallelinski

Forum veteran
#28
Apr 16, 2013
Also it's sure that Visenna is Geralt's mother.
 
F

FoggyFishburne

Banned
#29
Apr 16, 2013
Damn people! Hopefully someone who hasn't played the Daerhenna DLC in TW2 doesn't stumble in here and has the whole Cynthia twist thing spoiled for them. Though I guess people should play the games before coming to the forums. Ah well.

I do wonder what the practical reasons would be for having Geralt as a spectral rider. Was one of the elven horsemen ill one day and Geralt had to step in and fill the position for a while? I mean the fuck. It's gonna be interesting to have it explained. I really hope the writers don't forget about this detail or try to retcon it so that Geralt wasn't really a rider, or something like that. I hate contrived writing! A twist is awesome but retconning is for lazy writers and BioWare. Tihi.

It seems a bit counter intuitive. The riders grab Yen, Geralt chases them, then offers a switch, which the horsemen IMMEDIATELY accepted. Why would they do all this. To what end would it serve them to kidnap a person only to substitute them for another. It seems to me that the souls of the plane that Geralt occupies in are all the same and what person they grab is irrelevant.

However, I have a theory. Speculations ahoy! What if the only way to become a rider, or some kind of higher ranked rider, is to willingly accept the position. The Riders needed a new compatriot or perhaps they found Geralt to be the perfect choice for the job but they can't just kidnap the bastard or threaten him into accepting the position. He needs to be willing, that's the catch. So instead of trying to coerce him through threats or blackmail direclty or whatever, they instead just grab Yen, being fully aware that he loves her and would do anything for her. Implicitly manipulating him. Geralt chases the bastards, catches up with them and the Riders see that their plan worked flawlessly. Geralt indeed proposes a switch, his soul for Yens. Since he's doing it willingly, he's eligible to become a Rider, instead of just a lowly slave or whatever happens to the ordinary souls once they get taken by spectres. That would explain why they didn't even hesitate when Geralt offered his soul. I mean fuck, they could've just nabbed him instead of Yen at the Isle of Avallach. They're immortal, they can't be killed. Geralt would've lost and be taken if the spectres willed it. But they didn't.

Instead they had Geralt chase them (maybe that was also a test of theirs? Testing Geralts resolve?) and once he willingly decided to switch places with Yennefer of Vengerberg, they accepted it without flinching. Thus they had a new powerful Rider at their side, able to perhaps reap twice as many souls now whenever the riders passed by?

Well anyway, that's my theory though I should add that I have not read the Witcher books. Nor am I an expert at the Witcher lore. From what I've gathered the abducted individuals seem to be sometimes included in the cavalcade itself, sometime they're in a grass plain where unicorns ride while some other sources say that they're slaves for the mysterious elven race. So again, I'm missing a crucial plot point here as to why the Riders need people at all, and why they would need Geralt amongst its cavalry. But hey, speculating is a lot of fun! :D
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#30
Apr 16, 2013
FoggyFishburne said:
It seems a bit counter intuitive. The riders grab Yen, Geralt chases them, then offers a switch, which the horsemen IMMEDIATELY accepted. Why would they do all this. To what end would it serve them to kidnap a person only to substitute them for another. It seems to me that the souls of the plane that Geralt occupies in are all the same and what person they grab is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Just because Ciri. Ciri. And Ciri....
 
G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator
#31
Apr 16, 2013
FoggyFishburne said:
I do wonder what the practical reasons would be for having Geralt as a spectral rider. Was one of the elven horsemen ill one day and Geralt had to step in and fill the position for a while? I mean the fuck. It's gonna be interesting to have it explained. I really hope the writers don't forget about this detail or try to retcon it so that Geralt wasn't really a rider, or something like that. I hate contrived writing! A twist is awesome but retconning is for lazy writers and BioWare. Tihi.

It seems a bit counter intuitive. The riders grab Yen, Geralt chases them, then offers a switch, which the horsemen IMMEDIATELY accepted. Why would they do all this. To what end would it serve them to kidnap a person only to substitute them for another. It seems to me that the souls of the plane that Geralt occupies in are all the same and what person they grab is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Thinking of Ciri as the Maltese Falcon may get you on a more productive train of thought. As Wichat said, "Because Ciri."

The Wild Hunt needs Geralt or Yennefer as bait to get Ciri. Either would do, so they first kidnapped Yennefer. When Geralt pursued them, and the Witchers inflicted heavy losses on them, they were eager to accept the trade: Geralt rides with them instead of slaughtering them, and they get to dump Yennefer, who is a royal pain in the arse.

It was still a surprising act for Geralt to join the Hunt voluntarily. We don't know the details of how the trade went down, but it could be one of those old "rash boon" tropes:
"Join me, and I will give you whatever you most desire."
"I want Yennefer to go free."
"I didn't mean that."
"You gave your word, King, and a deal's a deal."
 
Z

zeroarsch

Rookie
#32
Apr 16, 2013
My theorie is, that after Geralt offered his soul to the king of the wild hunt (flashback in witcher 2), he not becomes one of the riders, he is immediately sent to kaer morhen right at the beginning of witcher 1 and fufills his deeds as a puppet of the wild hunt. this is why you encounter him a few times in witcher 1, especially at the end of it, when the king wants to get the soul of dé aldersberg. maybe the wild hunt is preparing for a great war...
 
G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator
#33
Apr 16, 2013
zeroarsch said:
My theorie is, that after Geralt offered his soul to the king of the wild hunt (flashback in witcher 2), he not becomes one of the riders, he is immediately sent to kaer morhen right at the beginning of witcher 1 and fufills his deeds as a puppet of the wild hunt. this is why you encounter him a few times in witcher 1, especially at the end of it, when the king wants to get the soul of dé aldersberg. maybe the wild hunt is preparing for a great war...
Click to expand...
Although it's been sort of a consensus that the King of the Wild Hunt is a liar and a babbling fool, I think you have a point there. Not necessarily that Geralt was immediately transported to Kaer Morhen; there's enough evidence in TW2 that he rode with the Wild Hunt for a time and escaped. But rather that the King has the ability to pull Geralt's strings, and while Geralt may see his actions as the lesser evil, or re-establishing himself as a person, or fulfilling or resisting his destiny, he is often in fact doing the King's bidding.

And you are quite right in that it is de Aldersberg whom the King wants, at least at this point in the tale. This is a place where using the Celtic legends to interpret the actions of the King makes sense. The Faeries take away, not the dead, but those who are on the point of death; the King wants de Aldersberg just as he is, not after Geralt runs him through. In this way, Geralt can truly deny the soul of de Aldersberg to the King.

(See "The Stolen Bairn and the Sidhe", or Dorena Allen, "The Dead and the Taken")
 
K

Kallelinski

Forum veteran
#34
Apr 17, 2013
zeroarsch said:
My theorie is, that after Geralt offered his soul to the king of the wild hunt (flashback in witcher 2), he not becomes one of the riders, he is immediately sent to kaer morhen right at the beginning of witcher 1 [,,,]
Click to expand...
Problem is, apparently the dates of Witcher 1 and 2 are wrong. The narrator says it is 1270, but he also says it is 5 years after the end of the Nilfgaard wars, but that means it is 1273 and not 1270. That also means that Geralt was with the Wild Hunt for 3 years before he appeared at Kaer Morhen. And even if we ignore that and accept that the date for Witcher 1 is 1270, according to Cynthia there are reports, which describe Geralt being a rider, so he was a part of it nonetheless.

The most plausible reason was and is still Ciri. They caught Yennefer, because the king thought Ciri would come out for her stepmother, but she didn't. Geralt killed too many of them and offered himself for her. The king doesn't hestiate, because the plan doesn't work with Yennefer, so he switches to Geralt and has one problem less. But apparently even Geralt can't lure Ciri out of her hideout, despite being bounded by fate to her. Then after 3 years Geralt finds a way to escape the Wild Hunt.

The king, knowing he can't get Ciri doesn't matter what he does, let him involuntarily go, but still follows him, ultimately he wants Ciri and maybe Geralt could lead him to her.

Geralt is just a pawn, while Ciri is the queen and the King is... the king.
 
Z

zeroarsch

Rookie
#35
Apr 17, 2013
Edit: Ok, i remembered the chat with cynthia. what i aks myself then, is how long has geralt been a rider? i´m not accustomed with the books, but is it right, that they can travel through time? or does time in their plane of existence just flow slower than in the witchers world?

The time thing is something that troubles me a lot, also... maybe cd projekt have had their problems with the different dates of the books. or they mistakenly took the wrong dates. we´ve had a discussion about this here :

http://en.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33915-timeline-issues/page__st__60

the timeline on the front page is also different than what the games say and it seems to me, that witcher 1 and 2 contradict themselves in regards to the time.

maybe this will be explained in witcher 3 with some kind of time travelling or interdimensional/parallel universes theorie :D/>

Grüße aus dem Süden
 
B

Blothulfur

Mentor
#36
Apr 17, 2013
Geralt can't have been a rider for very long due to the differing nature of time in the Hunts world and the Witchers, i've often thought about the parallel world thing accounting for the various timeline inaccuracies, and i'm still not sure how I feel about it. Makes me a bit uneasy truth told. Might just be that dates have become mangled in the retelling of the Witcher myth, a lot of medieval sources are all over the place in that regard, and that's before we figure in changes to the calendar and such.

Might be the whole saga is being looked at by an aged Nilfgaardian scholar sometime in the future, and thus we see facts becoming a little blurred as times eyepiece struggles to focus.
 
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