Isn't Kambi Kind of Broken?

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That's the point. You pay a price as well, especially when you have bad luck and Kambi is not on your hand but in the deck, waiting to come out at the worst moment...

Discard has the best deck thinning out of any deck though? You're more likely to draw Kambi than your opponent drawing something they need.
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I guess you would have to be okay with not having a counter for everything your opponent plays. We have enough counters in the game in terms of removal right?

I don't use Kambi but I've had it used against me on select few occasions; in some instances it did its job and in others it bricked. I never saw it as a broken mechanic to begin with and I'm completely ok with it.

Here's the thing: I was a rather dedicated MtG player for several years where targeted discard is very much a thing. You can look at a player's hand and do away with whatever poses the biggest threat to your deck. Coming from that background, Kambi is not a detrimental card. It's also not threatening enough to see it often as it requires a fair bit of luck to pull off the play. Broke Ciri said it: "high risk, high reward". These type of cards don't see a lot of competitive play because of their RNG-based nature.

This is a good explanation to why you're okay with Kambi but I still don't like the fact that it denied my leader and gave him card advantage. I'm not saying the card itself is immensely powerful or anything, but the ability itself is kind of broken because of the two former reasons I've been mentioning.
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Kambi is unique and interesting card. Its not broken. Don't touch it, I dont want to play same cards in every faction, like every 4 provision card is always 4 points, every 5 is 5 and so on - its perfectly balanced, but its boring...

Denying my leader and granting card advantage is pretty broken. I mean "broken" in the sense that this ability has no place being in this game. I don't recall ever saying I want every card in the game to be boring and uninteresting. We could talk about that but on a different topic.
 
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If Kambi is overpowered or not. It is an extremely interesting and unique card. Homecoming lacks those interesting card, so I thing its a good thing we have Kambi. :)
 
Kambi is original, fun to play and highly strategic. We cannot deny that there is some rng with it, excepted when played as last say, but we are playing a card game and not chess ...

Kambi has a real Poker feeling, betting that you will deny the finisher of your opponent. I love this feeling, and people claiming that "this is not Gwent" should be more open minded. I guess you guys never played Kambi...

Should every card be like Regis BL ? No.

I love Kambi. Favorite card, do not touch it.
 
It can be argued that every game is streamlined; even chess has its patterns/strategies that are widely used and recognized by the more dedicated playerbase. And chess is amongst the upper echelon of games in terms of intricacy.

The difference is chess has a very simple set of rules and a known starting point. A Knight does what a Knight does. It doesn't suddenly behave like a Queen or a Pawn. It's always a Knight. Even with the simplicity of each piece the game has a great deal of complexity. The replay value comes from the complexity, and how each player decides to move a piece on any given turn.

Gwent has complex rules and an unknown starting point. Even with the greater "freedom" the overall complexity arguably pales in comparison to chess. A lot of this is because in any given patch half the pieces are irrelevant because nobody plays them.

Gwent is too pass/fail. A deck could be built to put card A, B and C on the board, followed by D. If those cards all hit the board in the right sequence and stay alive for long enough it wins the game. So when other players meet this deck they know this "combo" must be prevented. This forces running counters to the combo, drawing them and playing them in response to the "right" opponent cards. Barring that it requires forcing that combo to be split up or played in a round the other player doesn't need to win (aka, bleeding). The game result revolves around this, and this alone. Stop it or lose. Everything else is just build-up to get to R3 with this combo, get to R3 with the cards able to stop it or block the combo from being available R3.

Throw RNG related cards into this mix, such as something like Traheaern. Now you play the card, suddenly get lucky and send card D to the graveyard. There goes the combo. Or get lucky and take out card A, B or C. Now you only need to stop two of the three still in play. Or get unlucky and find three options the person running this combo doesn't care about. This doesn't add any strategy. It just blindly breaks the entire combo, part of it or accomplishes nothing. All based on results completely outside control of the players. Under the right circumstances that result alone can decide the game. Such behavior doesn't fit with a skill based game.

The thing is that there isn't really a counter for this card though.

Sure there is a counter. Kambi is used to remove an important card toward the end of a game. You know this ahead of time. So, once again, the counter is to play those important cards before the opponent plays Kambi. When you do this Kambi removes an unimportant card toward the end of a game. This does require knowing Kambi exists or playing around the possibility. It's not based on playing a card to directly counter another. It might cost some value. It's better compared to the alternative, and causes Kambi to do what the person running it doesn't want to happen.

No, it means that right from the moment you prepared your hand with Kambi you have to read your opponent's gameplay. Kambi is of no value, if you play it as randomly as you picture it to be played. Which brings us to the third hint, that no Random Number Generation is involved.

It's not RNG in the technical sense but the card result is based on things completely outside the control of the player. Neither player can control the initial draw, the order of cards in-hand, etc. For the most part, people don't arbitrarily play Kambi. They play it late R3 to snipe an important card. The option of arbitrarily playing Kambi far earlier on a whim and getting incredibly lucky does exist, however. In that sense the result can be highly random. Getting lucky isn't skill based. It's the exact opposite.
 
It's not RNG in the technical sense but the card result is based on things completely outside the control of the player. Neither player can control the initial draw, the order of cards in-hand, etc. For the most part, people don't arbitrarily play Kambi. They play it late R3 to snipe an important card. The option of arbitrarily playing Kambi far earlier on a whim and getting incredibly lucky does exist, however. In that sense the result can be highly random. Getting lucky isn't skill based. It's the exact opposite.
I agree to that description. It is the point I was trying to make, but obviously was bad at describing. Yes, it is a card that gets most valuable in R3. But just waiting for the last two cards wouldn't make much sense if you couldn't read the opponent's gameplay. You'd then just hope the best. Which isn't strategic, but a game of luck.
 
I agree to that description. It is the point I was trying to make, but obviously was bad at describing. Yes, it is a card that gets most valuable in R3. But just waiting for the last two cards wouldn't make much sense if you couldn't read the opponent's gameplay. You'd then just hope the best. Which isn't strategic, but a game of luck.
I find it very hard to believe that you play Kambi based on a read. There is nothing to read when it comes to Kambi. You will never know which opponent's card will be discarded. It's always a gamble and you always hope for the best. That's why people mostly wait for the last few cards in R3, hoping to screw up the opponent's finisher.

I just saw a video with a Syanna - Kambi combo, discarding the last two cards of the opponent. Absolutely disgusting. And the streamer was laughing. I just don't understand how you can enjoy winning like that. As I said before, it's up to CDPR to set standards. Hopefully I'm not wrong counting on them to set high ones and walk-the-talk about "army", "battlefield" and "strategic".
 
I find it very hard to believe that you play Kambi based on a read. There is nothing to read when it comes to Kambi. You will never know which opponent's card will be discarded. It's always a gamble and you always hope for the best. That's why people mostly wait for the last few cards in R3, hoping to screw up the opponent's finisher.

I just saw a video with a Syanna - Kambi combo, discarding the last two cards of the opponent. Absolutely disgusting. And the streamer was laughing. I just don't understand how you can enjoy winning like that. As I said before, it's up to CDPR to set standards. Hopefully I'm not wrong counting on them to set high ones and walk-the-talk about "army", "battlefield" and "strategic".

A fan of The Great Dandelion Show, I see. :cool:
 
I find it very hard to believe that you play Kambi based on a read.
And yet that's what I did. In fact, I removed Kambi from my deck. The risk of not getting it in hand is way too high. And if you don't have it in hand THAT'S when "rng" takes over. So having Kambi 1 out of 6 matches in hand really isn't worth it.

There will always be players that are laughing when they win. Do you really want to take that as a sign of op cards? Then watch for Foltest's Pride erasing the whole board, bearmaster for a swing, or myself just two games or so ago. I used some scraps for Lippy, and seeing the last round against a spy deck was so cool, that I laughed from joy. But Lippy isn't nearly as exciting in terms of strategic playing. It was just fun to play the spy cards back, that I got pestered with the two rounds before.

So, I still think you're making mountains out of molehills.
 
And yet that's what I did. In fact, I removed Kambi from my deck. The risk of not getting it in hand is way too high. And if you don't have it in hand THAT'S when "rng" takes over. So having Kambi 1 out of 6 matches in hand really isn't worth it.
Well, that's something else entirely isn't it? But glad to hear we have one less live Kambi :cool:

There will always be players that are laughing when they win. Do you really want to take that as a sign of op cards?
No, I see that as a sign of bad standards in the game (devs allowing this bad mechanic/ability in the game, non-aligned with their vision and communication) and a sign of bad attitude (players using/exploiting this bad mechanic/ability while they know it is completely unfun for the other player). A card that reduces gameplay (similar to Usurper). Plain silly.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Im supposed to be in Gwent/forum retirement, but i just have to step in this thread...

Its rather amusing seeing Kambi generating so much debate, i guess its just in its nature. And the ironic part, from someone who saw through all of Kambi's iterations, is that in its current state, he's way less disruptive than he used to be:

Kambi does NOT deny your best card or your leader ability or whatever. And there is a counter - dont leave your best card and/or leader ability for last. Besides, the Kambi player will only discard your finisher with 100% certainty if he has last say, if he doesnt, its a 50% chance.

When i used Kambi, most of my losses were against players who saw it coming, somehow, even though i tried to avoid telegraphing it as best i can. Because denying that woodland mega speartip, or even better, that Adda Hugebert the opponent set up the whole R3, with Kambi, its the best feeling...

On Open Beta (and Closed Beta) - then, you could complain about Kambi and counters. I mean, there definitely were some (Dimeritium Bomb and Shackles to demote, if i recall) but basically, if you didnt have any of those - and most decks didnt - you lost, no matter what your deck was.
 
Baffled how the discussion for the card is how strong or not strong it actually is, but not that its design is terrible, binary and can be absolutely broken with certain conditions.

No, the card is a terrible design. Stop defending it.
 
[Play Kambi based on a read] vs. [I removed Kambi from my deck.]
Baffled how the discussion for the card is how strong or not strong it actually is, but not that its design is terrible, binary and can be absolutely broken with certain conditions.

No, the card is a terrible design. Stop defending it.
Indeed. It is interesting that many times when misalignment with vision and communication about the game and general bad design is brought up, there are people who completely ignore this and start defending bad cards and mechanics by talking about counters and how to "play around it". That's so completely missing the point.
 
Baffled how the discussion for the card is how strong or not strong it actually is, but not that its design is terrible, binary and can be absolutely broken with certain conditions.

No, the card is a terrible design. Stop defending it.

Yeah I don't think I communicated my point well enough... at least there's a large discussion going on now. Thank you for understanding my point. So many people get lost talking about strength/provisions and completely miss what I tried getting across.
 
Baffled how the discussion for the card is how strong or not strong it actually is, but not that its design is terrible, binary and can be absolutely broken with certain conditions.

No, the card is a terrible design. Stop defending it.

Perhaps to you. To me it is an interesting card from design viewpoint and I'm sad there aren't more unique cards like this.
 
I was thinking that in situation where both players have 1 card remaining you can use kambi so you wont have anything to discard while opponent will discard his last card giving you card advantage.

This would be broken,but you too must discard card and only then opponent card will be discarded.

There is nothing broken about kambi and it doesnt give user card advantage or deny opponent from using leader ability.
 
I was thinking that in situation where both players have 1 card remaining you can use kambi so you wont have anything to discard while opponent will discard his last card giving you card advantage.

This would be broken,but you too must discard card and only then opponent card will be discarded.

There is nothing broken about kambi and it doesnt give user card advantage or deny opponent from using leader ability.

It does deny someone's leader if you don't have any cards in hand and you still haven't used your leader's ability or charges. You kind of contradicted yourself there.
 
It does deny someone's leader if you don't have any cards in hand and you still haven't used your leader's ability or charges. You kind of contradicted yourself there.
That is your fault for not using leader ability on time. Just because you got badly outplayed by kambi (which again is your fault) doesnt make it broken in any possible way.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
That is your fault for not using leader ability on time. Just because you got badly outplayed by kambi (which again is your fault) doesnt make it broken in any possible way.
So on top of so many things we have to play around when playing against SK (many are impossible to play around), we should also play around Kambi? Lets say the right most three cards (or four cards) I have drawn are important Gold cards and all will only work towards the end of the round. Now, Kambi can be played any time. Now, should I simply throw off the Gold cards because the opponent *may* have Kambi? Since we can't rearrange the cards in hand, how else can I play around Kambi (which may not may not come)? While the Kambi player have all the time in the world to play it optimally. If Kambi has a condition that, if you have only card in hand, discard that card and discard a random card from opponent's hand, then I would say it is fair. Players will only have to anticipate Kambi at the end. Or if it is on an Order, then also it is fine. Or the most fair ability will be to Discard a random card from your hand and then discard a random card from opponents hand.

The fact that it can come anytime and there is no way to counter it and since hand can't be rearranged, this is an extremely annoying card.

Is it OP? NO. Is it broken? May be not. Is it a fair card? NO. Is it annoying? Yes, like hell.
 
That is your fault for not using leader ability on time. Just because you got badly outplayed by kambi (which again is your fault) doesnt make it broken in any possible way.

People usually save their best cards for last. For me, my last play included my leader. I'm not blaming anyone else for my miss-play but Kambi should not deny my leader. I should be able to trigger his ability at least. That should be reworked. So I say a golden card being able to deny a leader IS pretty broken. I mean, I couldn't exactly know what his last card would be. The only other card that denies a leader is Usurper and people complain about him all the time.

Kambi CAN be broken and that's the problem.
 
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