I don't think the criticism is fair. Games like Destiny, Doom, Battlefield and The Division are games where gunplay mechanics are front and center. There is no game without awesome gunplay mechanics. Cyberpunk is so much more than gunplay, and it cannot be awesome at everything. Cyberpunk is more focused on RPG mechanics, world building and character development. Not gunplay.
I never have gotten the pleasure to play Mass Effect. Is that game a good example of RPG gun combat done right?
All good points. Quality gunplay can make bad games like Destiny go over well with fans. Forget what it could do for 2077.
Here's something to keep in mind. Borderlands 3 supposedly has top tier gunplay and (for a decent percentage of the player base) will be releasing right alongside Cyberpunk in April. I know they're different games, but there'll be gameplay comparisons. It won't be a great look if firing a Borderlands rifle feels immaculate while Cyberpunk becomes another case of "CDPR made an amazing game with decent gameplay."
Here's something to keep in mind. Borderlands 3 supposedly has top tier gunplay and (for a decent percentage of the player base) will be releasing right alongside Cyberpunk in April. I know they're different games, but there'll be gameplay comparisons. It won't be a great look if firing a Borderlands rifle feels immaculate while Cyberpunk becomes another case of "CDPR made an amazing game with decent gameplay."
Don't care about fantastic gunplay. All I care about are good animations, and weapons that feel like they have impact.I know, and it is a good thing.
Also a good thing. Count in the ability to talk our way out of tense situation via dialog system (yes, because it is an RPG...).
Powerslide and bullet time are mostly for "shooting the enemy dead" as coolish as possible, aren't they?
I fully agree. Yet I see most people in this thread to be mostly interested in "exceptionally" fantastic gunplay, seemingly making everything else the game has to offer an unimportant part, like with statements "If it hasn't exceptionally good gunplay, then I am not interested." The same mentality often comes through in interviews, where most questions are about combat and how many body parts we will be able to shoot off.
Make whatever you want of this, but I find it pretty sad.
Sadly I can't remember, Shadowrun was more popular in my region when I was into pen&paper. But I remember that ANY runner could die by a lucky thrust from ANY hobo with a rusty fork
That really shouldn't be such a challenge for CDPR to pull off given their budget and team size. They are no longer a poor 5-man Polish studio.
That said, I have absolutely no idea what the animations feel like now because I have not seen the latest demo, so my concerns could be for naught.
Not really: bullet sponges and terrible animations when you hit enemies. Weapons don't look bad, though (some have no recoil and are awful, but it's done on purpose since loot is the only thing the borderlands series offer together with childish humor, so you need to make every weapon randomly different):
THIS is top tier gunplay:
If CP2077 is something between this 2, I'm happy. With no bullet sponges unless few justified cases (royce had the shield, max-tacs have top notch armor and cyberware...) and no level scaling DMG.
but the enemies are SUPPOSED to be that way explicitly. them being bullet sponges is part of the point.
the rest of the game is hyperstylized it isn't trying to give perfect animated representations of realistic hit physics. its a cartoon on purpose.
I guess I'm saying that that alone is a style choice and not an indicator of bad gunplay. its just a style you don't like. the real question is, did it mechanically do what it was supposed to do?
they could be bullet sponges even with animations when hit. Not top notch, fine. In this case.
And I agree that gearbox never said they wanted to make an immersive (= realistic) game, so it's fine. Except for reloading, shooting and some special move, borderlands has little to no animations at all. Compared to CP2077 it doesn't have facial animations, a full dialogue system based on animations (interactive scene system) or the ambition to be immersive. They chose FPP only because they wanted to make an FPS with a diablo-like loot system. That's it. They created the looter shooter genre and their fans are happy with that. Fair enough. Hours and hours of coop grinding to get a randomized loot so you can grind even more to get better loot and on and on... No problems with that, if that's what you're aiming for.
CDPR, on the other hand, have repeteadly stated they wanted to make a story-driven RPG, with freedom of choice in gameplay and dialogues, they went for FPP to maximize the immersion and spent lot of resources for the interactive scene system. Looking at borderlands would mean running in the opposite direction. So if you play a very immersive game but when you start shooting (and looting) it becomes borderlands, we have a problem.
If you love RPG's then you've been missing out if you haven't experienced Mass Effect. Just forget about the gunplay, it's a great experience for people who love RPG's.
I mean, the only reason borderlands felt silly was because the entire thing was worked that way. if you put the basic mechanics in another setting it would feel substantially different. what was important is that ti had fluid movement and transitions between moving and shooting. that's something that translates to any genre outside of pure sims, regadless of how they make the guns handle or the animations attached to it.
Regarding FPP melee combat, I think the other polish guys from techland (way smaller than CDPR) did a good job back in 2015:
they also made contextual animations for picking items up and opening doors (you can see the guy opening a fridge and picking a bottle from it). From 2:20 on. The pace is not slower for that and it really doesn't look to difficult to be done.
Don't know if I should buy it or just wait for DL2 coming in spring. :/ I've been told he narrative is really bad.
EDIT: sorry for the guy in the video, I hate him already after 3 minutes of gameplay.
they also made contextual animations for picking items up and opening doors (you can see the guy opening a fridge and picking a bottle from it). From 2:20 on. The pace is not slower for that and it really doesn't look to difficult to be done.
Don't know if I should buy it or just wait for DL2 coming in spring. :/ I've been told he narrative is really bad.
EDIT: sorry for the guy in the video, I hate him already after 3 minutes of gameplay.
It's veeeery twitchy and relies very much on fastpaced climbing and parkouring over the buildings.
And while it has nice atmosphere to it, it's also very repetitive.
if you want good first person melee, the gold standard is anything Arkane Studios has put out. Dark Messiah of Might and Magic still towers over most in terms of the combat, and Dishonored is a total treat. they're the only studio I can think of that consistently has great first person melee.
I'm okay with it being realistic, with a healthy touch of unrealistic. Future technology and all that makes it okay
Don’t listen to naysayers. The gameplay is great and after you install no Chromatic Aberration mod it becomes a visual treat.
Regarding repetition, well Witcher 3 was also repetitive.
In no other game will you experience the thrill of being surrounded by zombies and the rush of adrenaline that comes after you escape them. Get the first one - it’s worth it.
given how mantis blade looked 1 year ago and all the bad opinions about this year's melee, I think that would be already a great improvement.
The only issues I've had towards melee in FPP games is the lack of impact of the weapons on the enemies, how 50% of the weapon in not shown on screen.
If they implement quality animations, hit boxes, weight and impact and show the weapons better in a FPP, they have a win in my book.
I'd also like to see weapon stances as well, being able to hold a katana vertical as wall as reverse grip, and changing how the weapons might function.