I am not agree about rows, but this is not that theme. What about comic-like. No it wasn't. It was quite serious. Everything was ok, except the gameboard - it was too simple, may be. There could be a big tavern table with beer cups. But even that design was better then the current one. Current is too heavy and sad. And I still cannot drop my cards into the mud. I still cannot imagine them like it is a creatures. May be, I could if cards are not like cards (with shiny ethereal borders for example). But while they are metallic cards, they are not compatible with mud.If it was the other way round people would probably say: "It is too bright, colorful and comiclike. It used to be so much better when it was dark and gloomy."
And: Three rows are just better.
Since I am boycotting Gwent, until it become playable and viewable, I decided to install Bethesda's CCG game. And what did I see there:
It's four wonderful boards, first of all. That, what I wanted to see in Gwent. Boards are like tables of some types: map, velvet table, clear stone plate and the wooden one. All tables are good lightened, but not very much, what creates a soft, calm atmosphere of a card game. Shadows are good too. Boards are wonderful in all cases. This users' chips are very beautifully and stylishly made too. Cards I like lesser, because they have the same ragged frame as in Gwent. But here it is not so conspicuous, it's quite small. Another thing I don't like here is a color theme: I think it must be dark on light, but not light on dark, which is not good for perception. But, at least all other card elements have straight defined lines, what is very good. And especially I like cards' backs. They are wonderful in comparison to some Gwent's ones, because they are not 3D. 3D-backs are not ok, I think. They are looking abnormal and foreign, cause cards are 2D. That is one of the mistakes of the current Gwent design. TESL backs are very neat and clear, even if they are animated. Cause they all are 2D. Wonderful backs.
What about all other elements: they are all clear and neat too. I lke the overall style (could be better of course, but at least it is well-percepted). And there is too much darkness in some elements, what partially creates the same depressing atmosphere like in Gwent. I don't understand, why almost all games have dark style. It's depressing. It's not good for eyes as someone say, because as some researches show, dark on light is better for reading and it is not so depressing. I think, it's a mistake of almost all games. If u look to the popular HS, it has mostly dark on light text and design.
And it's design is quite simple, but people are playing it much more, then TESL, Gwent, MTGA counted summary and with light text on a dark back. It's a big mistake, I think. No metter, how beautiful is ur game, light on dark is disattractive for most of people, it's depressing and people don't like depression. As I feel, it causes pression on my soul, on my mood. Cause dark things are heavy, it's not surprising.
But, of course, I don't like HS-style gameplay of TESL with mana and face bitting and creature exchange (cause there is only one line of creatures and no rounds). It's boring. I liked Gwent more, when there wasn't so many buff/damage and order mechanics. I like game with tricky mechanics, because it is an essence of cards. But, this is not that theme to talk about gameplay.
So, the main idea of this post is: this, what I want Gwent to be, what it is logical to be: a board game, where cards are cards, not creatures. Cards like creatures is unlucky idea, cause it's cards and cards must lay on the appropriate board. Only there they are looking essential. Battle fields are for creatures, for 3D-figures, not 2D-cards. And the design must not be disgusting. Noone will go to the game every day, if it has muddy, dirty design. TES Legends - this game I want to go everyday, because the style is quite good, but I hate the HS gameplay, so I won't... Just because of gameplay (and may be because of the dark interface too).
It's four wonderful boards, first of all. That, what I wanted to see in Gwent. Boards are like tables of some types: map, velvet table, clear stone plate and the wooden one. All tables are good lightened, but not very much, what creates a soft, calm atmosphere of a card game. Shadows are good too. Boards are wonderful in all cases. This users' chips are very beautifully and stylishly made too. Cards I like lesser, because they have the same ragged frame as in Gwent. But here it is not so conspicuous, it's quite small. Another thing I don't like here is a color theme: I think it must be dark on light, but not light on dark, which is not good for perception. But, at least all other card elements have straight defined lines, what is very good. And especially I like cards' backs. They are wonderful in comparison to some Gwent's ones, because they are not 3D. 3D-backs are not ok, I think. They are looking abnormal and foreign, cause cards are 2D. That is one of the mistakes of the current Gwent design. TESL backs are very neat and clear, even if they are animated. Cause they all are 2D. Wonderful backs.
What about all other elements: they are all clear and neat too. I lke the overall style (could be better of course, but at least it is well-percepted). And there is too much darkness in some elements, what partially creates the same depressing atmosphere like in Gwent. I don't understand, why almost all games have dark style. It's depressing. It's not good for eyes as someone say, because as some researches show, dark on light is better for reading and it is not so depressing. I think, it's a mistake of almost all games. If u look to the popular HS, it has mostly dark on light text and design.
And it's design is quite simple, but people are playing it much more, then TESL, Gwent, MTGA counted summary and with light text on a dark back. It's a big mistake, I think. No metter, how beautiful is ur game, light on dark is disattractive for most of people, it's depressing and people don't like depression. As I feel, it causes pression on my soul, on my mood. Cause dark things are heavy, it's not surprising.
But, of course, I don't like HS-style gameplay of TESL with mana and face bitting and creature exchange (cause there is only one line of creatures and no rounds). It's boring. I liked Gwent more, when there wasn't so many buff/damage and order mechanics. I like game with tricky mechanics, because it is an essence of cards. But, this is not that theme to talk about gameplay.
So, the main idea of this post is: this, what I want Gwent to be, what it is logical to be: a board game, where cards are cards, not creatures. Cards like creatures is unlucky idea, cause it's cards and cards must lay on the appropriate board. Only there they are looking essential. Battle fields are for creatures, for 3D-figures, not 2D-cards. And the design must not be disgusting. Noone will go to the game every day, if it has muddy, dirty design. TES Legends - this game I want to go everyday, because the style is quite good, but I hate the HS gameplay, so I won't... Just because of gameplay (and may be because of the dark interface too).
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If u look to the interior design book about colors, u will see:
Black
It is incomparable when interacting with other colors. In its pure form, when exposed to a person, it can influence as a symbol of hopelessness.
White
It's purity and serenity. White color in the interior should be used as an additional shade to another color.
So, interior designers understand these things, but game designers - don't. As an example of this, someday I have read one man's comment, who changed some colors of his kitchen. He said, that while kitchen had mostly black colors, all his family was depressed and they were like vampires until they changed it to yellow. After this, he said, their home has become the fun house. It's logical, cause yellow is the color of sun, color of gladness. So have it in mind, while u r designing game style. If u want to make people suffer and be negative, use black and dark at most. If u want to make them rest and be positive, use light colors.
Black
It is incomparable when interacting with other colors. In its pure form, when exposed to a person, it can influence as a symbol of hopelessness.
White
It's purity and serenity. White color in the interior should be used as an additional shade to another color.
So, interior designers understand these things, but game designers - don't. As an example of this, someday I have read one man's comment, who changed some colors of his kitchen. He said, that while kitchen had mostly black colors, all his family was depressed and they were like vampires until they changed it to yellow. After this, he said, their home has become the fun house. It's logical, cause yellow is the color of sun, color of gladness. So have it in mind, while u r designing game style. If u want to make people suffer and be negative, use black and dark at most. If u want to make them rest and be positive, use light colors.
It's almost an year left since I've started this thread. Since that nothing changed to the look of Gwent. Still it is dark, dirty and unpopular. Did u know that Bethesda's TES Legends is closed? Guess, what design does it has? The same dark and dirty. Dark things are doomed to be forgotten and dead. The only way is - to make game Light! Only light (as light of Hearthstone) makes people and developers themselves be interacted. Darkness makes people loose their energy, makes them sleep and die. Only light gives energy to people and their answer is the same. See - Hearthstone is very old game, very simple and even primitive, but it is still very popular, cause it is light and emotional. People don't like depression that the current Gwent gives them. So join the light side!
Gameplay issue. The more popular archetypes are pretty toxic and the most unbrained. There is no rewards for think anymore.
Regarding design, what is missing is cohesion between the elements, the 3d leaders, the boards and the cards, as well as the avatars and borders have completely different styles that seem like different games, putting more light will not fix them.
As for the light, they could simply put a global light option for those who do not want the game so dark and see how popular it is.
I have a feeling the design is NOT the reason the game died. A very strong feeling.
And what problems GWENT has also are not caused by its visuals.
Hearthstone has childish, cartoony graphics while GWENT has mature, high-quality ones.
I agree with that: cards' design is different to the whole game. It's ragged and sloppy. So I don't understand, how noone of designers doesn't even see it for so much time. The only reason is - darkness. They cannot see because of darkness. Developers are depressed becuase they created dark game. This is the main mistake, which is dragging all other mistakes along with itself.
I think it's the core problem. First - there must be light. All other things are the secondary and they'll be ok, if only there is a light in the game. It's easy: choose dark side - and no metter what u do - all is bad; choose light one and everything else is ok, if u put some effort there. That's my opinion. When u choose dark, u doom ur project from the begining, that what we have with Gwent and TESL. Even Netflix's Witcher doesn't make this game popular (while W3 is beeng sold very good). If u choose light, u bless ur project from the beginning as it was with HS. They don't even balance it good, they don't make better design all these years, but the game is still on top, cause it's blessed from the begining to success by the light design. I think it's the main and the most important think of every successfull project.
I don't mean to make Gwent childish. Light must not be childish and cartoonish.
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Batman isn't so popular like Power Rangers or Spiderman or other comics heroes, who make their business in the daylight.
Sure, that's the sole reason it's popular and has been for such a long time. Nothing to do with simplistic game mechanics, the fact it's based on the WoW universe, or the fact that it's made by Blizzard (a huge company).
And sure, all of GWENT's problems would go away if only the colour scheme was lighter.
Seriously, a game that is based on the very grim and dark universe of the Witcher cannot be some childish cartoon with bright colours and sunshine. That would go against the very nature of the source material, and it would most certainly drive some players away.
Yes. It's looking ridiculous, but it's true.
U r not right, cause Gwent isn't dark game. And Witcher's universe isn' t dark too. It's gray.
But Gwent is a game of FUN. It was never boring. It was never dark. Fun cannot be dark. People play card games for FUN. Black - is not color of fun. Black is color of horror. It's a big mistake to make this color the main for fun game. It's a big mistake to make fog as a main symbol of a fun game. Gwent was played in taverns mostly where people gather to have fun and rest. That is Gwent's true essence and the Beta was close to it. But current Gwent is far away of true fun Gwent, the card game of daylight, the game of OFFICIAL daylight tournaments. It's the game with daylight symbol - the crown, which is the symbol of the sun and daylight governance.
Blood Wine Expansion is very light and bright. Yet, has more appealing than the original game.
Some of the reasons is because it is more colorful without lost the dread and grim side of the Witcher Universe. The game can have a color scheme more polished and bright without lost his meaning, his darkness and identity.
I love this thread.
Please let me add, that back during Midwinter (which ok, ok! I didn't hate it shoot me...) I had 'suggested' that the game go back to it's 'darker and grittier' roots.
By this, I did NOT mean suck all the pretty colors out. What I was trying to say was bring back things like when the Ghoul used to consume a unit and that BRIGHT RED BLOOD used to saturate the card it was eating. I meant 'dark and gritty' in spirit, not for visuals. I remember them saying they were bringing back some of that style and I got excited.
Then, well.........it's a conversation that's been had so many times I just don't have it in me today. Not gonna go into the 'Beta vs HC' arena and defend my POV.
Look, I understand that sometimes you just have to cater to 'everyone' meaning younger, less 'mature' players who just literally can't right now with all the blood and violence but frankly the Beta look was far more suited for them.
At the end of the day, all I wanted was some new cards. Not........this. I still play, but there was definitely a time when I'd be playing all day instead of posting these same tired points of mine. All this said, I enjoyed reading this thread. Some really smart players with both good taste and a great sense of humor.
Please let me add, that back during Midwinter (which ok, ok! I didn't hate it shoot me...) I had 'suggested' that the game go back to it's 'darker and grittier' roots.
By this, I did NOT mean suck all the pretty colors out. What I was trying to say was bring back things like when the Ghoul used to consume a unit and that BRIGHT RED BLOOD used to saturate the card it was eating. I meant 'dark and gritty' in spirit, not for visuals. I remember them saying they were bringing back some of that style and I got excited.
Then, well.........it's a conversation that's been had so many times I just don't have it in me today. Not gonna go into the 'Beta vs HC' arena and defend my POV.
Look, I understand that sometimes you just have to cater to 'everyone' meaning younger, less 'mature' players who just literally can't right now with all the blood and violence but frankly the Beta look was far more suited for them.
At the end of the day, all I wanted was some new cards. Not........this. I still play, but there was definitely a time when I'd be playing all day instead of posting these same tired points of mine. All this said, I enjoyed reading this thread. Some really smart players with both good taste and a great sense of humor.
There's something called contrast, which when done right(like is the case in gwent HC) can be very effective and beautifull to many. But taste is subjective.
I am a graphic designer with 14 years experience. Of course there's a set of "rules" that designers or artists use to make effective designs, but those are more guidelines than anything else. Not all brains react the same even though most of us do follow some instinctive perception rules.
For example angular lines and bright colors make our amigdala react because of possible genetic memory of predators, venomous creatures, etc, as well as the fact that we humans distinguish a myriad of shades of green because anything that's not green(is not foliage) could be a predator. Even though some of us are daltonic an do not distinguish red from green, others have sinesthesia or preceive a "relaxing" color like blue to be exciting.
In other words, not everyone of this "rules" works on everyone, they are just guidelines.
Bright colors and clean design might attract mostly younger people, have you thought about that for instance?
I am a graphic designer with 14 years experience. Of course there's a set of "rules" that designers or artists use to make effective designs, but those are more guidelines than anything else. Not all brains react the same even though most of us do follow some instinctive perception rules.
For example angular lines and bright colors make our amigdala react because of possible genetic memory of predators, venomous creatures, etc, as well as the fact that we humans distinguish a myriad of shades of green because anything that's not green(is not foliage) could be a predator. Even though some of us are daltonic an do not distinguish red from green, others have sinesthesia or preceive a "relaxing" color like blue to be exciting.
In other words, not everyone of this "rules" works on everyone, they are just guidelines.
Bright colors and clean design might attract mostly younger people, have you thought about that for instance?
No, it really isn't. Colour scheme has zero effect on gameplay mechanics, balance, bugs, etc.
On the surface. I'd wager it's intentionally made that way to contrast with the main game areas; Toussaint is meant to seem like some fairytale land (there's even an in-game book describing it as such). But it's only a single, small area in the world, and like I said, it's beautiful on the surface only. Underneath the colours and flowers and wine cellars is a much darker reality.
That's funny, for me Witcher 2 is too bright and with too much contrast. And I used a mod to make Witcher 3 more dark. There are issues with Gwent, but I like it not despite but because of the look.
Incidentally, The Shawshank Redemption and The Godfather aren't light either.
(Sorry, I just had to ninja post this)
As Gwent is.
Is just a minor ingredient on the Witcher series
As pointed out by Vedamir, Gwent is a fun side of Witcher. Where people gather to have fun and relaxing time. Even the in game quests in W3, has a sense of light and break time from "saving Ciri from the Wild Hunt".
For the Melitele sake, instead of rush to save the so called daughter, Geralt get hooked up in cards, brawl fights and horse riding... even the Dark White Wolf Witcher needs a break from Grim and Dark... then he goes to Taverns play Gwent!
Here we are again with the "tavern game" thing. It simply does not apply to GWENT; the game is literally described as a battle between two armies, with you as the commander.
And the whole "fun side thing" argument is flawed because this standalone is not a minigame or a side activity in an RPG. The card game is literally all there is to GWENT.
Besides, the main point of the thread is that the dark scheme is the reason that the game has issues. Which just isn't true and doesn't even make sense.