Josh Sawyer (Fallout New Vegas director) explains some issues with the gameplay balance and UI

[spacefiddle]

correct me if I'm wrong, nets them the most money.

You're wrong, but that doesn't make CDPR right.

Consoles have been the cash cow for years now. Console sales of every shooter game released in the last 5+ years have vastly outpaced PC sales. There are a LOT of consoles out there. I think Fallout 4 PC sales were something like 25% of total Fallout 4 sales, IIRC from a Beth post.

However, if CDPR is gonna really allow mods in a meaningful way, then they are tying this game's longevity to moddability. Like the Fallout series, i wouldn't have a tenth of the time in recent Fallout games if I couldn't mod the hell out of it, and its DLC would have been a lot less appealing as well.

And what all these publishers need to remember is:

Whatever percent we may be of your sales, we are 100% of your content creators. No one's making mods with their XBone. Not even the new one. Not the PS5. Every single last mod will be made by a PC user, all content will be generated by PC users, and the shelf life of your game will tie directly into how long people want to come back to it - which equals more long-term opportunities to sell more content for it, and influences the likliehood of any purchase of a sequel.

I think the real problem is the developers are, themselves, more and more comprised of consolers who have no experience with, nor understanding of, PC systems. No old-school RPG players. No one who understands that the first thing a PC player does is check the control scheme and tweak it to their liking. Corporations cut loose the older, experienced, and higher-paid talent in favor of new young cheap devs who think with a controller and don't understand the flexibility and power OF THE DARK SIDE *ahem* of the PC control scheme.

I mean I have a multi-button mouse. Drives me nuts when in 2020 a game doesn't understand that a mouse has more than three friggin' buttons. Or can't keep custom control mappings saved properly (AHEM, CDPR.... I had to rebind Toggle Crouch 15 times before 1.05).

The hardware is getting more powerful and there are less and less devs who know how to use it.

 

[GrecoDrakken]

I do think the UI needs a little work, it's pretty and all but the more you play, the messier it gets. There's no way to just see unread shards/database or filter icons in the map, even searching for food related items (which I've found myself not using in my playthrough with how much ''healthpacks'' I find in every zone of the map.

 

[quxxo]

I think Fallout 4 PC sales were something like 25% of total Fallout 4 sales, IIRC from a Beth post.

Yeah, but it's always PC that sets the trends. PUBG became a thing from ARMA 2. And from PUBG, Fortnite became a thing. Same for Fallout IP: Fallouts were PC only IP. Most giant IPs have roots in PC, so it would be a mistake to design interface consoles first.

 

[spacefiddle]

Yeah, but it's always PC that sets the trends. PUBG became a thing from ARMA 2. And from PUBG, Fortnite became a thing. Same for Fallout IP: Fallouts were PC only IP. Most giant IPs have roots in PC, so it would be a mistake to design interface consoles first.

You need to understand how corpo bean counters think. Source: 25 years as an IT professional.

Console sales are 75% of the game's revenue.

The games will be designed for consoles, because management decisions do not "make sense" from intangibles and things you can't quantify on a balance sheet. And when someone suggests they actually create TWO interfaces, one that's optimized for consoles and one for PCs, that person will be laughed out of the room at the idea of the company "spending dev time and money" on a "niche market."

The greatest myth of the corporate world is that it has sold itself as this rational, logical machine that only does what "makes sense." Nothing could be further from the truth. Corporations are fueled primarily by management ego, and they will bend facts and reality to fit their preferences and worldview, and the fallback line will always, ALWAYS be, "what's the impact on cost?"

 

[Omgwtfgg]

The complexity of making a game...

How making things equal doesnt make them equal...
The concept of Linear gameplay...
Incoherent "Noise" in a philosophical sense...
The need for "Critical Critique."

A lot of us have no idea what it takes to make a "Good Game"

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2020

You need to understand how corpo bean counters think. Source: 25 years as an IT professional.

Console sales are 75% of the game's revenue.

The games will be designed for consoles, because management decisions do not "make sense" from intangibles and things you can't quantify on a balance sheet. And when someone suggests they actually create TWO interfaces, one that's optimized for consoles and one for PCs, that person will be laughed out of the room at the idea of the company "spending dev time and money" on a "niche market."

The greatest myth of the corporate world is that it has sold itself as this rational, logical machine that only does what "makes sense." Nothing could be further from the truth. Corporations are fueled primarily by management ego, and they will bend facts and reality to fit their preferences and worldview, and the fallback line will always, ALWAYS be, "what's the impact on cost?"

I wanna say they need to make money, as a counter arguement, but then i get to thinking about how much money a great/finishedgame/ with longevity would make...
I really like how you worded all that...
The dream...

Plenty of great games have been made with no advertise, no hype, no targeting mass markets, profits over people,
but at the same time... its that risk that the corpos think they're eliminating....
which works when trying to sell vacuums ... but not games
idk...

 

[moonknightgog]

"Inconsistent and/or unexpected control mapping for keyboard and mouse, which feels like a consequence of designing and playing with controllers exclusively/dominantly until late in development. M3 and keystrokes are not the same as 3rd and 4th face buttons on a controller, but controls have to go somewhere."

Yep. You could tell this in TW3 as well. I really don't understand their dismissal of a platform that, correct me if I'm wrong, nets them the most money.

Expecially the combat. The Witcher 3's combat was awful with mouse and keyboard, I had to use a controller for it.

 

[spacefiddle]

I wanna say they need to make money,

Of course they do. That's the illusion; that these decisions "make sense" because.... what... if they spent more time on overall quality, they'd lose money? Go out of business? Ridiculous.

There's a game called Kenshi. It was made, for 6 years, by one man. After 6 years working shit part-time jobs so he could focus on his vision, he was able to hire a small team, and for another 6 years, completed the game.

After 12 years this tiny dev team with no corporate oversight and no interference with the lead dev's vision released a quality game (within the limits of its ancient engine lol) that is true to itself and delivered exactly what it set out to do.

It recently surpassed one million copies sold. With no marketing machine, no hype parade, no media blitz, no Social Media shotguns.

And instead of going to shareholders and investors and disappearing forever, that million sales of revenue went to this small dev team. They're now working on Kenshi 2. The dev has resisted every offer of buyout and acquisition thrown at him and has made it clear that no one is going to tell him how to make his game, aside from reasonable feedback from customers that fit his vision.

I'd say he made a profit, yes?

And without resorting to corporate excuses.

Now what excuse does a major dev house, with plenty of experienced talent at their disposal if they chose to keep them, and a large budget, have for not delivering a quality product?

There's nothing special about the gaming industry. You are not a "fan" of CDPR. That's a dismissive term pushed hard by EA some time ago to diminish the importance of customer feedback - because that's what you are: a CUSTOMER. If you feel you didn't get a quality product, or the product that was advertised, then you are a dissatisfied customer. And a dissatisfied customer over a product that didn't meet expectations the company itself set should be the top priority of ANY business, in ANY industry.

THAT'S how you make money.

 

[soulwynd]

You're wrong, but that doesn't make CDPR right.

Apparently two wrongs make a right.

The PC gaming market has overtaken the console market a couple years ago and it's true on most multiplatform games. But not all of course, certain games like FIFA are still primarily played on consoles.

 

[Subenu]

Of course they do. That's the illusion; that these decisions "make sense" because.... what... if they spent more time on overall quality, they'd lose money? Go out of business? Ridiculous.

There's a game called Kenshi. It was made, for 6 years, by one man. After 6 years working shit part-time jobs so he could focus on his vision, he was able to hire a small team, and for another 6 years, completed the game.

After 12 years this tiny dev team with no corporate oversight and no interference with the lead dev's vision released a quality game (within the limits of its ancient engine lol) that is true to itself and delivered exactly what it set out to do.

It recently surpassed one million copies sold. With no marketing machine, no hype parade, no media blitz, no Social Media shotguns.

And instead of going to shareholders and investors and disappearing forever, that million sales of revenue went to this small dev team. They're now working on Kenshi 2. The dev has resisted every offer of buyout and acquisition thrown at him and has made it clear that no one is going to tell him how to make his game, aside from reasonable feedback from customers that fit his vision.

I'd say he made a profit, yes?

And without resorting to corporate excuses.

Now what excuse does a major dev house, with plenty of experienced talent at their disposal if they chose to keep them, and a large budget, have for not delivering a quality product?

There's nothing special about the gaming industry. You are not a "fan" of CDPR. That's a dismissive term pushed hard by EA some time ago to diminish the importance of customer feedback - because that's what you are: a CUSTOMER. If you feel you didn't get a quality product, or the product that was advertised, then you are a dissatisfied customer. And a dissatisfied customer over a product that didn't meet expectations the company itself set should be the top priority of ANY business, in ANY industry.

THAT'S how you make money.

Kenshi, one of the games I was proud to have supported years ago. The idea and concept behind it is still grandiose to this day and what they delivered is a very rustic but fun game

 

[spacefiddle]

Preorders are more common in the PC market. The giant graphic you posted specifically gives stats for preorders.
(how many years old is fo4 now....? tempus fugit!)

 

[jt4gov]

You're wrong, but that doesn't make CDPR right.

Consoles have been the cash cow for years now. Console sales of every shooter game released in the last 5+ years have vastly outpaced PC sales. There are a LOT of consoles out there. I think Fallout 4 PC sales were something like 25% of total Fallout 4 sales, IIRC from a Beth post.

Except most of the sales for Witcher 3 were on PC by a fair margin. The same goes for preorders of Cyberpunk with 59% of total preorders being on PC, leaving a 41% split between the rest of the consoles.

What you're saying may be true of other developers, but CDPR makes most of their profit from PC, especially since ALL of the sale profit on GOG goes to CDPR vs any other platform where they take a significant cut of the sale.

Edit: And now they've lost their holiday sales window for Playstation as well which will hit them fairly hard in terms of total sales as Playstation was their second largest platform for sales with Witcher 3 (behind PC by nearly 2 million copies).