Judy and the Relic blueprints

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Anyone know if this convo changes if you have Hellman's Relic data beforehand? Always wondered why I've never seen V share that data with her considering she's a tech whizz.



-- EDIT (thought I'd merge this with a post further down):

Oh my god. I just found this fantastic deep dive about Judy, looking at all the information scattered around her apartment, and now I'm absolutely convinced that there was a version of the script where V was meant to share the blueprints with Judy.


I highly recommend watching this. It's so obvious now looking at the way they set things up. 1. you've got Judy who's a tech genius studying the exact stuff you need and 2. Hellman's blueprints... which you do nothing with. It must have been cut from the script or something. Or relegated to DLC? Please CDPR, please? :sad:
 
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I'm not 100% sur, but, Judy call you for Evy's Death (if i remember correctly) only after "Lightning Breaks".
Therefore you always have this shard during this dialogue ;)
 
I don't think so, at least if there is additional dialogue it's never triggered for me. I always finish the Panam/Nomad stuff before starting M'ap Tann Pelen (and Judy's questline) just for the small extra Johnny/Alt dialogue you get.

I guess we have to headcanon that V would want to withold that information to protect Judy, especially after how Konpeki went. It's a shame though, I really would want V to say something more than "one can hope".
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
While she is a talented techie, the relic is a different kind of chip than the ones dolls use. When you first talk to her about the biochip after rescuing Evelyn, she doesn't even know what an engram is. Not to mention that 90% of the data on said blueprint is unavailable so she wouldn't be able to help anyway.
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I don't think so, at least if there is additional dialogue it's never triggered for me. I always finish the Panam/Nomad stuff before starting M'ap Tann Pelen (and Judy's questline) just for the small extra Johnny/Alt dialogue you get.

I guess we have to headcanon that V would want to withold that information to protect Judy, especially after how Konpeki went. It's a shame though, I really would want V to say something more than "one can hope".
Ahhh what a shame - thanks for letting us know.

By the way, is there ever a moment where V asks someone to make sense of the blueprints? Like, with anyone? That seemed to be the whole reason Hellman hands them over to you in the first place :/
 
I suppose Alt or Arasaka's experts, depending on the ending.
(Alt because she see directly in you/jhonny when you contact her. And Araska's experts in space station)
Anyway it's technical language (jargon?), incomprehensible to ordinary people :D
 
I suppose Alt or Arasaka's experts, depending on the ending.
(Alt because she see directly in you/jhonny when you contact her. And Araska's experts in space station)
Anyway it's technical language (jargon?), incomprehensible to ordinary people :D

Nooooo, I hate it! We're filling in a plot hole. >.<
"Meh, they probably won't make heads or tails of this, so I won't do the most basic thing and at least ask them to have a read."
 
Oh my god. I just found this fantastic deep dive about Judy, looking at all the information scattered around her apartment, and now I'm absolutely convinced that there was a version of the script where V was meant to share the blueprints with Judy.


I highly recommend watching this. It's so obvious now looking at the way they set things up. 1. you've got Judy who's a tech genius studying the exact stuff you need and 2. Hellman's blueprints... which you do nothing with. It must have been cut from the script or something. Or relegated to DLC? Please CDPR, please? :sad:
 
we talked a lot about this on judy's thread. it is thought that judy would have had a more important role for V on this subject but with the different cut and reboot she was relegated to the simple rank of romance to leave more place for the jonnhy / Alt arc.
in an expansion I would really like her to help V but CDprojekt removed judy from the scenario very abruptly, I still don't know why, so very little chance that we take advantage of his talents ...
 

Guest 4412420

Guest
I'm sorry to be a downer but the only thing that suggests this is that datashard. But said datashard has no real useful information. It's the writer's thoughts about what could be done in the future and if creating permanent neural pathways is even possible.

Judy's skills and knowledge regarding doll chips wouldn't prove very useful either as both serve very different functions. Judy is skilled and intelligent, I am not downplaying her talents, but the relic deals with digital personality constructs which is something that doesn't fall under her area of expertise (as I mentioned in my previous post when you first tell her about Johnny, she doesn't know what an engram is). Post-endings V's issue is a medical problem which is again something that Judy can't help with.

I hope to see Judy and the other 3 LIs again in the future, but I think their role would be as that of supportive partners or friends and it's completely alright if that's the only thing they can offer. It's just as important.
 
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Really interesting theory in the video! I would have loved for Judy to be able to help V.
Even more so if she could actually save V's life.
Even if it was a situation
where V still dies in 6 months,
at least V would have gotten help from someone who genuinely cared about them and the outcome. I wish this was an ending.
 
I'm sorry to be a downer but the only thing that suggests this is that datashard. But said datashard has no real useful information. It's the writer's thoughts about what could be done in the future and if creating permanent neural pathways is even possible.

Judy's skills and knowledge regarding doll chips wouldn't prove very useful either as both serve very different functions. Judy is skilled and intelligent, I am not downplaying her talents, but the relic deals with digital personality constructs which is something that doesn't fall under her area of expertise (as I mentioned in my previous post when you first tell her about Johnny, she doesn't know what an engram is). Post-endings V's issue is a medical problem which is again something that Judy can't help with.

I hope to see Judy and the other 3 LIs again in the future, but I think their role would be as that of supportive partners or friends and it's completely alright if that's the only thing they can offer. It's just as important.

You can also argue "sure, she doesn't know what an engram is - but that's why I'm gonna show her these blueprints." What's important is that she has the right kind of brain.

Re: the neural pathway shard - to be fair, he wasn't claiming it contained any useful info about the Relic per se; he was just saying it's another indication of Judy's interests and expertise. That, combined with everything else, it adds up to foreshadowing (that she might be able to help). It sets her up as this tech guru who isn't just brilliant at what she does, but also particularly interested in an area that overlaps heavily with what V's dealing with.

I mean, I'm just looking at this in purely narrative terms. Yeah, I know, virtus, doll-chips, and relics aren't the same things - and I'm sure V appreciates that - but I doubt that would stop her from at least asking, given that Judy's expertise is in a similar ballpark. The point is, the way they set these things up in the story really provokes our expectation that V would do that.

Especially considering that, when you go after Hellman, the only thing you gain are the blueprints. Which he suggests you share with anyone you think might be able to help. Johnny echoes that, "it's better than nothing so long as you know someone fluent in techno-babble."
Narratively speaking that's pretty clear set-up. So it's weird that it doesn't seem to come up again, that she wouldn't run it past Judy - or even Vik. Unless it did and I missed that...? o_O If not then that suggests "cut content" to me (could be wrong of course)

Plus I just love the idea of Judy being this unassuming genius.
 
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Guest 4412420

Guest
Considering how late in each character's storylines V truly opens up to them about their condition, it would only make sense for V to show Judy the blueprints around the same time as well, and by that point they can already have two other possible solutions to their problem. Sure, V could ask her to take a look, but I'm not sure how that would help because 90% of the data is unavailable.

Showing the blueprints earlier wouldn't make sense because before that, the only thing V knows about Judy's tech skills is that she's a braindance technician and that's even less similar to the doll chips. It would be kind of like showing MRI blueprints to someone who makes VR headsets. Both require technical knowledge but it's a different kind of technical knowledge.

I can understand wanting an option to ask Judy about it, but I personally don't agree that her having that shard implies she has expertise in this particular field (an interest sure) and that it foreshadows content that was cut. But even if this kind of ending was cut it's probably because developers realized she lacks the skills (this doesn't diminish her talents) and equipment to help V.
 
Ah, I'm late to the party then

EDIT: is it buried in the romance thread?
At the rate we discuss, sadly it's buried :)

But late to the party or not, it still makes for a great DLC idea! Thanks for sharing!
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You can also argue "sure, she doesn't know what an engram is - but that's why I'm gonna show her these blueprints." What's important is that she has the right kind of brain.

Re: the neural pathway shard - to be fair, he wasn't claiming it contained any useful info about the Relic per se; he was just saying it's another indication of Judy's interests and expertise. That, combined with everything else, it adds up to foreshadowing (that she might be able to help). It sets her up as this tech guru who isn't just brilliant at what she does, but also particularly interested in an area that overlaps heavily with what V's dealing with.

I mean, I'm just looking at this in purely narrative terms. Yeah, I know, virtus, doll-chips, and relics aren't the same things - and I'm sure V appreciates that - but I doubt that would stop her from at least asking, given that Judy's expertise is in a similar ballpark. The point is, the way they set these things up in the story really provokes our expectation that V would do that.

Especially considering that, when you go after Hellman, the only thing you gain are the blueprints. Which he suggests you share with anyone you think might be able to help. Johnny echoes that, "it's better than nothing so long as you know someone fluent in techno-babble."
Narratively speaking that's pretty clear set-up. So it's weird that it doesn't seem to come up again, that she wouldn't run it past Judy - or even Vik. Unless it did and I missed that...? o_O If not then that suggests "cut content" to me (could be wrong of course)

Plus I just love the idea of Judy being this unassuming genius.
After reading many creative fanfics out there, they can do cloning, nanotechnology, etc. It's 2077 for heavens sake...they can creative for the sake of plot convenience.
 
Sure, V could ask her to take a look, but I'm not sure how that would help because 90% of the data is unavailable.

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY, V ;) In any case I don't think that matters because the writers can wave their hands and make anything work if they want e.g. "good thing this special machine can read the other 90". Or, conversely, "damn, the 10% is garbage and the rest perma damaged". Just depends on what suits the writers' narrative. In this case it's basically "Have blueprints; ask someone else", so I'm inclined to think the blueprints weren't meant to be useless and a narrative dead end... but sadly has ended up that way anyway (maybe for the reasons you mentioned, or they had a brilliant idea but was cut due to time and money, who knows).

Anyway, agree to disagree on the other stuff - I think Judy is horrendously qualified! Just to be clear though, I'm saying it's the combination of everything we learn about her (plants and payoffs) that adds up to foreshadowing, not just one thing.
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At the rate we discuss, sadly it's buried :)

But late to the party or not, it still makes for a great DLC idea! Thanks for sharing!
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After reading many creative fanfics out there, they can do cloning, nanotechnology, etc. It's 2077 for heavens sake...they can creative for the sake of plot convenience.
Thanks, I'm just happy I had the experience of a lightbulb moment today hah :D (Even if it's way off - *prays to CDPR*)
 
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Anyone know if this convo changes if you have Hellman's Relic data beforehand? Always wondered why I've never seen V share that data with her considering she's a tech whizz.



-- EDIT (thought I'd merge this with a post further down):

Oh my god. I just found this fantastic deep dive about Judy, looking at all the information scattered around her apartment, and now I'm absolutely convinced that there was a version of the script where V was meant to share the blueprints with Judy.


I highly recommend watching this. It's so obvious now looking at the way they set things up. 1. you've got Judy who's a tech genius studying the exact stuff you need and 2. Hellman's blueprints... which you do nothing with. It must have been cut from the script or something. Or relegated to DLC? Please CDPR, please? :sad:
I Just believe it was beyond Judy (Technically) You are talking about a One of a Kind, Prototype, Tightly-Guarded piece of Medical Tech.

Also, Judy is not an M.D. That is the important missing component and moreover, Hellman's explanation about the Relic chip basically supporting "V" autonomic nervous system (i.e. Life-support) and having supplied the Nanites to repair V's brain, is the clincher. Viktor knew better than to tamper with it and I hope / think that Judy would have come to the same conclusion.
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Ahhh what a shame - thanks for letting us know.

By the way, is there ever a moment where V asks someone to make sense of the blueprints? Like, with anyone? That seemed to be the whole reason Hellman hands them over to you in the first place :/
There is the moment that he tells Hanako that he has the relic blueprints but that is the only person that he discloses it to (Of course Takamara knows he has the blueprint as well)
 
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While she is a talented techie, the relic is a different kind of chip than the ones dolls use. When you first talk to her about the biochip after rescuing Evelyn, she doesn't even know what an engram is. Not to mention that 90% of the data on said blueprint is unavailable so she wouldn't be able to help anyway.
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I would still like her to look and confirm for herself if she can. And tell v if it is or isnt possible.
 
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