Actually, like many, you are confusing 'Love' with 'Lust'. You described lust fairly well in this statement, love on the other hand, is the complete opposite.
Love doesn't have a single accepted meaning:
Merriam-Webster - Love noun
1. a feeling of strong or constant affection for a person
2. attraction that includes sexual desire : the strong affection felt by people who have a romantic relationship
3. a person you love in a romantic way
Oxford English Dictionary - Love noun
1. Senses related to affection or attachment - A feeling or disposition of deep affection or fondness for someone, typically arising from a recognition of attractive qualities, from natural affinity, or from sympathy and manifesting itself in concern for the other's welfare and pleasure in his or her presence (distinguished from sexual love at sense); great liking, strong emotional attachment; (similarly) a feeling or disposition of benevolent attachment experienced towards a group or category of people, and (by extension) towards one's country or another impersonal object of affection.
2. In religious use: the benevolence and affection of God towards an individual or towards creation; (also) the affectionate devotion due to God from an individual; regard and consideration of one human being towards another prompted by a sense of a common relationship to God.
3. Strong predilection, liking, or fondness (for something); devotion (to something).
4. An intense feeling of romantic attachment based on an attraction felt by one person for another; intense liking and concern for another person, typically combined with sexual passion.
5. Sexual desire or lust, esp. as a physiological instinct.
While I get what you mean, you're narrowing the term to mean only one of it's meanings.
Love definitely can be selfish at times. It certainly can be selfless at times as well. I think forcing it fit one meaning or the other oversimplifies a very broad term.
I think it's fair to say that Judy seemed to have deep affection for Evelyn that some would describe as love.
Merriam-Webster - Love noun
1. a feeling of strong or constant affection for a person
2. attraction that includes sexual desire : the strong affection felt by people who have a romantic relationship
3. a person you love in a romantic way
Oxford English Dictionary - Love noun
1. Senses related to affection or attachment - A feeling or disposition of deep affection or fondness for someone, typically arising from a recognition of attractive qualities, from natural affinity, or from sympathy and manifesting itself in concern for the other's welfare and pleasure in his or her presence (distinguished from sexual love at sense); great liking, strong emotional attachment; (similarly) a feeling or disposition of benevolent attachment experienced towards a group or category of people, and (by extension) towards one's country or another impersonal object of affection.
2. In religious use: the benevolence and affection of God towards an individual or towards creation; (also) the affectionate devotion due to God from an individual; regard and consideration of one human being towards another prompted by a sense of a common relationship to God.
3. Strong predilection, liking, or fondness (for something); devotion (to something).
4. An intense feeling of romantic attachment based on an attraction felt by one person for another; intense liking and concern for another person, typically combined with sexual passion.
5. Sexual desire or lust, esp. as a physiological instinct.
While I get what you mean, you're narrowing the term to mean only one of it's meanings.
Love definitely can be selfish at times. It certainly can be selfless at times as well. I think forcing it fit one meaning or the other oversimplifies a very broad term.
I think it's fair to say that Judy seemed to have deep affection for Evelyn that some would describe as love.
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Judy is like most characters, has their good moments, and moments you just want to shoot them. Hell, there were a couple of times i wanted to just punch Jackie in the mouth. That's being realistic though. It shows they, V, and we, are human. Despite the fact some people are choosing to ignore it, the game has files that show Judy tried to get Ev some help, even paying extra for them to come to the apartment. Ev obviously made a choice the moment her mind was once more her own, and, following her opportunistic nature, waited until the right moment to act. V was busy with the task of saving their own life, and Judy had gone out, likely trying to get back to normal life. Ev had her chance, and she used it. The only people other than Ev responsible for her death are Woodman, and the Voodoo boys, likely Brigitte.
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Agree, but I would add the VDBs at first, without the hack Woodman would never "touched" Evy
Thatnks for the reminder. Edited the postAgree, but I would add the VDBs at first, without the hack Woodman would never "touched" Evy
But in reality, if Evy hadn't betrayed VDBs, i.e give them the BD and toke their eddies (as planned). And also didn't lie to Judy and everyone...
- She wouldn't be hacked by VDBs
- She wouldn't discover that Woodman is a monster
- She wouldn't be sold to Fingers
- She wouldn't end in a Scavs hideout
So she is responsible for the situation, as tragic as it could be
- She wouldn't be hacked by VDBs
- She wouldn't discover that Woodman is a monster
- She wouldn't be sold to Fingers
- She wouldn't end in a Scavs hideout
So she is responsible for the situation, as tragic as it could be
Evelyn had it coming, cause she completely underestimated the situation. Which is even more ironic because during the chat with V she says something like "Everything thinks they are in control". And so did she.
The thing that bothers me isn't that her character made bad decisions, but that the game (once again) locks V on a single path, without any alternative options or branches. The only mission where we enjoy a little freedom is The Pickup and to a lesser extent the mission with the animals and the Netwatch guy.
Almost everything else is on rails and only offers the illusion of choice - time after time you get 3 yellow reply options in dialogues, just to find out that no matter what you say, the outcome is always the same.
Had they marketed it as such a game I wouldn't have a problem with it. But most of the trailers and interviews promised the opposite, namely a story where V's choices actually matter and have long term consequences.
The thing that bothers me isn't that her character made bad decisions, but that the game (once again) locks V on a single path, without any alternative options or branches. The only mission where we enjoy a little freedom is The Pickup and to a lesser extent the mission with the animals and the Netwatch guy.
Almost everything else is on rails and only offers the illusion of choice - time after time you get 3 yellow reply options in dialogues, just to find out that no matter what you say, the outcome is always the same.
Had they marketed it as such a game I wouldn't have a problem with it. But most of the trailers and interviews promised the opposite, namely a story where V's choices actually matter and have long term consequences.
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They promised nothing. Trailers aren't promises, they're just a taste of what they have in mind. Things change. There's a fair amount of choices. We can kill the cop, or talk her down in woman of la macha (mancha?) We can tell Judy no when she calls about coming over leading to the whole path of revenge for Ev, we can ignore messages from fixers about cars if they're not our style (i never buy the maimai. I want a car, not a lunchbox on wheels)
I wonder how it's related to Judy, Evy or V ?
(It seem to me, to be something about the game itself and it have nothing to do with the characters... Evy, V or Judy).
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Saving Evy's life is not something that V (player) can "choose". V and Judy "save" Evy from the Scavs to give her the choice. Evy choose to die... (The choice is not in V's hands).
The opposite to "Pisces" for example, where V can choose to not help Judy, to let the Clouds to Maiko and take the money, to let the Clouds to Maiko and don't take the money or to let the Clouds to the dolls. There, it's to V (player) to choose how it end.
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I think the VDBs would have still hacked her. Look what Placide does to V if you don't side with Netwatch. Evelyn sealed her fate when she mentioned the biochip while talking to Brigitte. To them, she's an outsider. One who knew too much as well.
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Something else to consider, is in a public hospital, she's a sitting duck. She's marked for death by both the voodoo boys, and saka. It'd only be a matter of time until one of them finds her. Death at her own hands was pretty much her only choice. Judy wouldn't stand a chance against a kill team, and they'd both be dead by the time V got there.
Yet V, who is marked for death by Arasaka, the Scavs, the Tyger Claws, the Maelstromers, the remains of the Voodoos (or Netwatch) and countless other factions that V has messed with - can freely walk the streets, sleep safe and sound in their apartment, visit shops, bars and ripperdocs and never has to worry about a thing.
The best part - at one point in the game V even gives their name and job to MaxTac. And my V had already killed a ton of cops. But we don't even show up on MaxTac's datapad.
You have no argument here, cause the story does not pay any attention to consistency and was written to accomodate whatever plot device was needed. Your interpretation of what happens in the game is neither better nor worse than mine. It's just another opinion.
@Soykaff - the Voodoos kill every business partner who is not part of the gang, out of principle. V later finds that out.
The best part - at one point in the game V even gives their name and job to MaxTac. And my V had already killed a ton of cops. But we don't even show up on MaxTac's datapad.
You have no argument here, cause the story does not pay any attention to consistency and was written to accomodate whatever plot device was needed. Your interpretation of what happens in the game is neither better nor worse than mine. It's just another opinion.
@Soykaff - the Voodoos kill every business partner who is not part of the gang, out of principle. V later finds that out.
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Agree
Work for VDBs : Bad idea...
Talk about the Relic : Even worse idea...
Betray them : The worst idea ever...
The only thing that saves V is either the Relic itself or the fact that VDBs really need Johnny's engram (in case V chose Netwatch).
V is a mercenary with multiple examples of survival against gang members, most of which only get bent out of shape when he returns to their turf. Neither Judy not Evelyn have any combat skill, much less enough to battle professional killers. If Arasaka were to come to the hospital for Ev, do you really think they wouldn't just give them enough eddies for the hospital to look the other way while they take her?
V the scary merc, who got shot in the head by a fatass has-been fixer and his single bodyguard, is now the most feared person in the city.
As I already said: the game has zero consistency. So ofc you can say "this and that would be logical", but at the same time there are countless plotholes and illogical events constantly happening in the game.
You are welcome to have your own opinion and interpretation. But none of it is backed up by anything that actually happens in the game. Cause if we take your thought of train to the bitter end, then V would be offed by some merc snipers with legendary Ashura rifles, the moment he steps out from Misty's shop and said mercs would cash in on a fat bounty.
As I already said: the game has zero consistency. So ofc you can say "this and that would be logical", but at the same time there are countless plotholes and illogical events constantly happening in the game.
You are welcome to have your own opinion and interpretation. But none of it is backed up by anything that actually happens in the game. Cause if we take your thought of train to the bitter end, then V would be offed by some merc snipers with legendary Ashura rifles, the moment he steps out from Misty's shop and said mercs would cash in on a fat bounty.
V got jumped by the bodyguard, and Dex took a cheap shot. What do you expect from a coward? At the end of the day, Evelyn's number was up, one way or another. Should V sacrifice their own life just to babysit Evelyn 24/7? That would be ridiculous, and utterly boring to boot.
By your logic V's number would already have been up by the end of the prologue, or by the moment V killed a high ranking Tyger Claw.
Look, I really don't want to waste my sunday evening with this, or have the mods crack down on us. You have your opinion and I have mine. And we should leave it at that, cause we won't convert each other.
Look, I really don't want to waste my sunday evening with this, or have the mods crack down on us. You have your opinion and I have mine. And we should leave it at that, cause we won't convert each other.
Sure. even though i'm not the only one pointing these things out, and quite a bit of what's been said is in the game itself, but whatever.
