Just started Fallout 4, What CP could have learned

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Well, let be honest fallout 4 only have one thing better than cyberpunk, or any other game that it's not betesha game, by the fact.

And it's mods, I play, if you look at my steam account 600 hours of fallout 4,add 1700 hours of skyrim, 300 hours of fallout 3 and 200 of new vegas. And all of this is by one thing, mods, that allow you to basically customize your game and create a new game play e perience every time you play it.
Cp have this potential, but I don't know it can achieve it. I mean, a partially good modders tools like the ones in Witcher 3 can't achieve this. You need quality mod tools like betesha do, and probably (as I asume Bethesda do) devolopt the game around that (a thing that probably comes to later)
 
Skyrim is a much better example of a main quest that doesn't breathe down your neck.

After the dragon attack and escape from Helgen, advancing the main quest requires you to talk to a specific person in a specific place--whom if you ignore, ensures you never need to think about the main quest again. There aren't even any dragon appearances in the open world.

Mechanically it works great because you lose access to very little content as a result of ignoring the main quest. And it works great from a roleplay perspective as well. It's easy to imagine your character is just glad to be alive and wants nothing to do with dragons. You don't even know you're dragonborn at that point. So there is no sense of urgency or ultimatum.
I usually ignore the main-quest in Skyrim as well, if I pick up the game again from time to time. Which makes me wonder - would an open world exploration game work without a main quest? (for me, it would, but also for others?) Just a bunch of well written quests you can find in the world while exploring it. Because I think that would actually encourage exploring, while a hurry up main quests often discourage exploring.
 
I usually ignore the main-quest in Skyrim as well, if I pick up the game again from time to time. Which makes me wonder - would an open world exploration game work without a main quest? (for me, it would, but also for others?) Just a bunch of well written quests you can find in the world while exploring it. Because I think that would actually encourage exploring, while a hurry up main quests often discourage exploring.
I think it would work perfect, as I wrote in the OP I just started a new FO4 game, using the Horizon and Sim settlements 2 mods. And it's a lot of fun and so much to do.

If you don't know the mods:
Horizon turns the game into a survival game, and also overhaul the whole settlement building.

Sim settlement 2 also changes how settlements work and let your people build their own houses and so on. But furthermore it also adds a new quest to the game surrounding this mod, which so far have be really good to be honest, better than most of the normal ones and fully voice acted as well and it's really long as well.

My point being that this quest doesn't have anything to do with the main quest as far as I know, yet it still tells it own unique story, which you as player will remember that you did and give you more possibilities in the game as you progress it.

Neither CP or Fallout for that matter, even most open world games doesn't really need a main quest or an ending in my opinion. Having lots of smaller "main quests" and world interaction can carry these games.

So taking FO4 and the horizon mod, survival in itself becomes a goal, ammo and good food and water, is not easy to find, and all food/water in the game that you find will give you radiation. Yet you are forced to sleep, eat and drink or you will end up dying. So it becomes a quest in itself gathering stuff so you can get your settlements up and running, simply in order to survive in the world, while trying to do all the other quests as well.

And in my opinion CP could do exactly the same, obviously make use of the survival idea so it fits the world of CP. And then just give you lots of interested side missions, faction interaction, and possibilities to choose how you want to do this. And these would be goals of their own.
 
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There is nothing positive to learn from the absolute disgrace that is Fallout 4.
I would say the crafting and base building was something that were positive things but...

If there was one thing to learn from Fallout 4 it definitely should have been to learn not to emulate how shit of a game it is.

Lesson not learned.
Post automatically merged:

If were doing an apples to apples comparison here the only bits I like more about FO4 are...

The crafting system is just better implemented
Inventory management is easier
Factions fight each other
Clothes and Armor are separate

Sure I'll think of more later.​
Thank you Sir.
 

mbrto

Forum regular
i have been modding my fallout 4 for a long time and completely lost interest after cyberpunk came out.
this game is just way better in every single aspect
 
at least compare to fallout new vegas, it's the best fallout game by far
and yes, you can see how a 2010 game did everything so much better
 
I scored hundreds of hours of playtime in Fallout 3, NV and 4.

I love all of them. Expecially with user-made mods that enhance the experience in many areas.
The RPG mechanics and immersion of Fallout are way, way better then CP2077 in my opinion.

In CP2077, we were promised a non-linear gameplay, with dialogue trees and skill checks, but CDPR didn't deliver.
Dialogue trees and skills in Fallout make much more sense, and they can really make a difference in quest outcome.
In Fallout you have more freedom of choice, you can side with one faction or another, and your choices will have tangible consequences.
 
I don’t know if I agree that Fallout 4 narrative doesn’t push towards the main quest.

If I woke up in a unrecognisable world with my child kidnapped by people who also murdered my wife, I wouldn’t start chilling and building settlements with strangers.

The best open world games are ones where the main story is really good and you want to do every mission as they come, but the side missions are just as good and allow you to drag things out as you wish.
Fallout 4 in particular, o man I couldn't give a monkeys the kid was gone. I was enjoying building outposts and stealing power suits and terrorising the brotherhood. I can easily see why people would not complete fallout 4 (or elder Scrolls games, many of which I get bored and not finish).

CP kept me engaged in the main story. I did alot of the side quests and gigs because those three tarot cards were strongly suggestive (particularly the first one) of how short the main game was. In the end the side quests and gigs became way to easy or were just too short.
 
I'm gonna be that gal and say F4 is a terrible game with horrible rpg/gameplay mechanics and with an equally bad story. Bethesda also has a horrible record with non-user-friendliness and now screwing modders over, whom pretty much made their games be such good sellers.

F4 story pissed me off so much that the moment your son does that boohoo reveal he got plasma shotgunned on the face. Trash driving force of a story with plot holes left and right.


Mind you that saying F4 is horrible is not me saying CP2077 is better. The Silverhand plot is also on the same level of terribleness. It was a story written by someone who clearly never played a single tabletop game of Shadowrun or Cyberpunk. It completely misses the point of what a runner/merc is and they try to nudge-nudge "I'm a merc!" in there now and then just to fake it.

It really didn't need the V is dying drive force behind the story. When it comes to storytelling, the more inescapable the driving force behind the story is, the more you have to make the rest of it be good and make sense for it to not be bad.

Here is a clear cut example of why it is bad in CP2077's case; V is dying, the game tells you over and over that the longer you have Johnny in your head, the more likely it is you will die. So why would V do any other job when the job of saving him/herself is available? Why would V do any other merc work that wasn't meant to either get resources or money to help save them? Why would V let Johnny drive their body even if for a night if that will make their health even worse? Unless they have a deathwish, that doesn't make any fucking sense, even as a desperate move.

How could you fix this and keep Johnny? Have him as a construct, but without the whole dying part. So now V has an important chip and personality in their head and they could have Arasaka and others go after V for it. Now V has the threat of being hunted down while trying to fulfill their life goal of becoming a famous merc. Johnny would also have to strive to convince V to go against Arasaka, to contact Alt to do something about the other Soulkilled chips. Every mission Johnny could come out say this and that about corporations, really try and put effort to drive the point in, even be more of an asshole to convince V. Tell V told you so when Arasaka goons try to raid V's apartment and force V to change safehouses.

There are so many plots and side-plots they could shove in without the dying part and still have V become a successful merc. It's a shame they went the cheap story route and didn't make up for it.
 
LOL. Cyberpunk literally have nothing to learn from Fallout 4 which is by far the worst Fallout game ever created (along with 76 probably but I've never played that game).
I'd love it to have more RPG elements like New Vegas or DAO but that would probably mean another 2-3 years of development so I'm happy with the final product (at least on PC).
mind you Obsidian made New Vegas in 18 months. Yes it was buggy as all hell at launch (more so because of bethesda's broken engine), but the masterpiece was there
 
I'm gonna be that gal and say F4 is a terrible game with horrible rpg/gameplay mechanics and with an equally bad story. Bethesda also has a horrible record with non-user-friendliness and now screwing modders over, whom pretty much made their games be such good sellers.

F4 story pissed me off so much that the moment your son does that boohoo reveal he got plasma shotgunned on the face. Trash driving force of a story with plot holes left and right.


Mind you that saying F4 is horrible is not me saying CP2077 is better. The Silverhand plot is also on the same level of terribleness. It was a story written by someone who clearly never played a single tabletop game of Shadowrun or Cyberpunk. It completely misses the point of what a runner/merc is and they try to nudge-nudge "I'm a merc!" in there now and then just to fake it.

It really didn't need the V is dying drive force behind the story. When it comes to storytelling, the more inescapable the driving force behind the story is, the more you have to make the rest of it be good and make sense for it to not be bad.

Here is a clear cut example of why it is bad in CP2077's case; V is dying, the game tells you over and over that the longer you have Johnny in your head, the more likely it is you will die. So why would V do any other job when the job of saving him/herself is available? Why would V do any other merc work that wasn't meant to either get resources or money to help save them? Why would V let Johnny drive their body even if for a night if that will make their health even worse? Unless they have a deathwish, that doesn't make any fucking sense, even as a desperate move.

How could you fix this and keep Johnny? Have him as a construct, but without the whole dying part. So now V has an important chip and personality in their head and they could have Arasaka and others go after V for it. Now V has the threat of being hunted down while trying to fulfill their life goal of becoming a famous merc. Johnny would also have to strive to convince V to go against Arasaka, to contact Alt to do something about the other Soulkilled chips. Every mission Johnny could come out say this and that about corporations, really try and put effort to drive the point in, even be more of an asshole to convince V. Tell V told you so when Arasaka goons try to raid V's apartment and force V to change safehouses.

There are so many plots and side-plots they could shove in without the dying part and still have V become a successful merc. It's a shame they went the cheap story route and didn't make up for it.
Wow think i would have rather played that game. That sound so much better then what we got. add in a interactive world and that would probably been best game of the decade imho
 
Also, remember this:
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That's from back when they were trying to be true to the Cyberpunk2020 tabletop book. You do pick a background in the tabletop, which you can roll for a random background or just make your choices. I guess not going on a mostly linear route proved to be too much for them.
 
Also, remember this:
View attachment 11131139

That's from back when they were trying to be true to the Cyberpunk2020 tabletop book. You do pick a background in the tabletop, which you can roll for a random background or just make your choices. I guess not going on a mostly linear route proved to be too much for them.
Noticed that too now when i got my hands on the rulebooks. Alot of stuff thats not ingame in any way shape or form. jobs, motivations and so on. Kinda get why they renamed it: Action-adventure everywere exept on sales pages... And the cp2077 homepage it still says "Make choices in your journey and watch the story change based on your actions".
 
I don't think F4 should be brought as an example. There are many build your own town out of junk games with some pew-pew action and bad to non-existent storytelling.
 
Wow think i would have rather played that game. That sound so much better then what we got. add in a interactive world and that would probably been best game of the decade imho
Adding to your version slightly. There should have been more of a reason for Johnny being on that chip. If yorinobu planned on placing it in someome with the intention of Johnny carrying out terrorist activities as part of a bigger plot. V stealing the chip and yorinobu knowing he installed the chip, means he done them a favour. V getting shot breaks the chip, so Johnny cannot take full control for a while. V still wants to get rid of Johnny and sets out to do so. Less urgency, but at the same time there would be lots of issues to deal with. Has Johnny's engram been altered for him to do the corpos bidding without consciously knowing? And when it comes to siding with Johnny on issues, is that just V being influenced as well. It would have been great to see the conflict in Johnny if he were to learn he's a corpo puppet.

Overall a plot of yorinobu planning to murder his father and his engram backup in mikoshi, but through clever use of an engram/s implanted agents, could have created a major plot. His sister and the arasaka board would have just thought it was another terrorist plot. A developing corpo war where yorinobu would take absolute control over multiple corporations during the chaos, would be something side missions etc would have influenced.
 
Adding to your version slightly. There should have been more of a reason for Johnny being on that chip. If yorinobu planned on placing it in someome with the intention of Johnny carrying out terrorist activities as part of a bigger plot. V stealing the chip and yorinobu knowing he installed the chip, means he done them a favour. V getting shot breaks the chip, so Johnny cannot take full control for a while. V still wants to get rid of Johnny and sets out to do so. Less urgency, but at the same time there would be lots of issues to deal with. Has Johnny's engram been altered for him to do the corpos bidding without consciously knowing? And when it comes to siding with Johnny on issues, is that just V being influenced as well. It would have been great to see the conflict in Johnny if he were to learn he's a corpo puppet.

Overall a plot of yorinobu planning to murder his father and his engram backup in mikoshi, but through clever use of an engram/s implanted agents, could have created a major plot. His sister and the arasaka board would have just thought it was another terrorist plot. A developing corpo war where yorinobu would take absolute control over multiple corporations during the chaos, would be something side missions etc would have influenced.
Kinda been wondering what Arisaka wanted with Johnny at all. I get that they kinda wanted him to suffer the Soulkiller but why keep him for 50 years? And why put him on a revolutionary omg chip? Did Yorinobo copy Johnnys engram onto the chip before he stole it? Why would he do that? did he want revenge against his father and wanted a known terrorist too destroy Arisaka? So much feels underdeveloped imho.
 
Kinda been wondering what Arisaka wanted with Johnny at all. I get that they kinda wanted him to suffer the Soulkiller but why keep him for 50 years? And why put him on a revolutionary omg chip? Did Yorinobo copy Johnnys engram onto the chip before he stole it? Why would he do that? did he want revenge against his father and wanted a known terrorist too destroy Arisaka? So much feels underdeveloped imho.
This is why they should have had this as a plot in the game. Johnny happening to be on the chip for no reason is weird.
Them keeping his engram could have just been their version of eternal punishment/tourment, which is what Johnny does sort of describe
 
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